[Gateway] Medium Wizards No Longer PDGA Legal?

[Brall]

firm vp's next? i could chip a brick with mine.

 

[Brall]

firm vp's next? i could chip a brick with mine.

i'd like to add that i wasn't hoping they are next. this firm overstable putter is my favorite approach disc.

 

[jrawk]

i dont think vibram has to worry. firm xlink will bend without breaking. theres a video somewhere

 

[jenb]

Seems like a lot of discs would shatter at cold temperatures. Is there a temperature specified for the flex test?

 

[Future_Primitive]

Seems like a lot of discs would shatter at cold temperatures. Is there a temperature specified for the flex test?

I don't believe there's a lower limit on how soft a disc can be.

(13) have a flexibility rating no greater than 27 lb. (12.25 kg);

Test Methods:
(8) Flexibility - The disc is held on its edge in a vertical position perpendicular to a scale with a precision of at least 2 oz. (56.7 g). The upper rim of the disc is then gradually pressed down within 5 seconds. The flexibility rating is determined at one of two points, depending on how the disc reacts to applied pressure.

For discs that buckle, the flexibility rating corresponds to the point when the maximum weight is registered on the scale. For discs that do not buckle, the rating refers to the weight at the point when the inside rim-to-rim distance is at 50 percent of the disc's diameter. The temperature of the disc is to be no higher than 25 degrees Celsius (77 F) when the test is performed. The ratings of three samples are determined, and the median score is used as the final rating. Discs that are unable to be bent to 50% of their diameters fail the flexibility test. Manufacturers are required to send samples of the most rigid discs they want considered for PDGA approval.

Yes there is. :thmbup:

 

[wake911]

So my current discs, irregardless of flexibility rating are legal. Manufacturer(s) are warned to not make discs that exceed the flexibility test, and stop production on too stiff discs they've found now. But my previously legal discs are still legal (unless deemed completely illegal like Turbo Putt)

Seems like it might be a good idea to test every batch as a manufacturer. I'm sure they could press a couple discs, test them on their own flexibility test machine. If they pass, proceed with the whole lot of discs. If not, i'm sure they can adjust the plastic mixture slightly to bring it into compliance. The PDGA could have audits of the paperwork yearly, or bi-yearly, or whatever to confirm that every lot of discs produced had a spot check of the flexibility test.

Of course some discs would still come out too stiff, but that happens. As long as the act of testing is there, it seems like a reasonable measure. Just like slightly overweight discs occur. IF this flexibility issue is a big enough concern, steps could be mandated to insure better compliance.

 

[jcburton24]

I really hate to here news like this. I love stiff putters. I like em brick hard and was hoping the new Latitude 64 zero hard plastic would be what I want. Guess they just won't make a putter I like anymore if they don't allow stiff plastics.

 

[garublador]

you know what is funny about Gateway putters, 2 of them, mainly the most popular one, is only legal to 174.3 and I bet you half the players with Wizard putters have theirs at 175....hahahaha. I can't wait for the day someone is a Dbag with a wizard/Magic in a tourny round and when I see them putt check their putter weight on the last hole by handing them their disc and telling them I am calling them on their illegal disc. I tell the descent people about the weight issue so that they know. Haven't run into a dbag worthy of it yet tho.

Gateway Disc Sports Wizard 174.3
Gateway Disc Sports Magic 174.3
Gateway Disc Sports Voodoo 175.1
Gateway Disc Sports Warlock 175.1

Make sure you bring a calibrated and certified scale and calipers. Otherwise you'll have no way to prove that the disc is overweight for the diameter. Anyone questioning the flexibility of a disc has to make sure to bring a calibrated and certified apparatus to test the discs to the PDGA specification or else they can't actually prove that a disc is illegal or not. Any TD that's willing to enforce these rules has to bring all that stuff themselves, too or else they have no way to prove that anyone is breaking the rules.

These tests have to be done by the PDGA before the discs get to the hands of the customers if these standards and rules are going to mean anything. At tournament time it's nearly impossible to enforce these rules and anyone claiming they're going to do so is just trying to gain an advantage via bad sportsmanship. It's just too difficult to prove that any of these rules are being broken, especially since the weight and flexibility of a disc will change over time.

What they'd have to do is require that all "runs" of discs are given a serial number so that they can be tracked. If a given run is found to be illegal then that run would have to be recalled and all players would get refunds for those discs. I know the PDGA will say that this is not a feasible solution, but
that's the corner they've painted themselves into with their own rules. Either you make rules that are enforceable and actually enforce them or you don't get taken seriously as a governing body and/or sport in general.

 

[sgamerp]

My buddy Jake is going to be pissed.

 

[Sir Puttsalot]

The future of disc golf has apparently come down to R-Pro.

So much for that online petition I signed....

I'm curious what type of setup PDGA has for the flexibility test. Anyone have any idea?

And if I wanted to challenge the legality of a disc's flexibility, beyond a subjective review by a TD, I would have to submit 3 sample discs (presumably new) that would taco'd permanently/severely, and I would have to pay for the testing?

It sounded like if a manufacturer was to submit discs, and said discs were found to be indeed legal, the testing fees would be waived.

imo, if I was to submit discs for testing, that were determined to be illegal, I should have the fees waived. Afterall, aren't I helping PDGA maintain standards?

Disc plastics are evolving, as well as disc designs. MVP discs come to mind, where the outer ring would provide the necesary flex to maintain safety liability concerns, along with a durable firm core that would fail the flexibility test.

Just some thoughts....

 

[Tpro]

I really hate to here news like this. I love stiff putters. I like em brick hard and was hoping the new Latitude 64 zero hard plastic would be what I want. Guess they just won't make a putter I like anymore if they don't allow stiff plastics.

^THIS

 

[thechamp]

I think they should make manufacturers responsible for producing legal discs. It's kind of silly that you can go to a store and buy a disc that's not legal for play because of weight/ firmness. If companies want to make discs that push the specs to the limit they will have to tighten up their manufacturing process.

 

[scarpfish]

I just can't wait to see someone challenge someone else's disc at a tournament for being too stiff.

 

[notroman]

I just can't wait to see someone challenge someone else's disc at a tournament for being too stiff.

"You're putting PEOPLE'S LIVES AT RISK!"

 

[Paul25934]

Break out the stiffy-o-meter! ... Actually don't!

 

[tbird888]

I can't believe the PDGA expects TDs and players to call out a disc based on holding it.

 

[BirdmanCR]

If you think a hard putter is a risk. Try a blunt edged driver at full speed far more dangerous. Id rather be hit by a 290g putter from a full drive then a driver half way out.

 

[IDGC_SUPER]

So what do we all use blowflys so if we hit someone it just bounces off like a wet noodle? Someone from the PDGA needs to say exactly why they are making this ruling.

The G9i's were spot tested(random spot testing was requested from the PDGA BoD a few years ago) and they did not pass the specifications for approved discs as decided upon by the Technical Standards committee. Many discs are spot tested each month from all manufacturers and some discs are altered after the initial PDGA testing. This is due to manufacturers experimenting with plastic types and molding processes. There is not conspiracy against Gateway or any other manufacturer, I know nothing of the Medium plastic and all that I have seen would pass the "flex test".

 

[dx_roc]

You should spot check any run of champ glow firebirds in that case.

 

[IDGC_SUPER]

the new firebirds are definitely too stiff then

good thing I already stocked up

If you are talking about the newer flat ones, they are not and have been spot tested. They are defiantly stiff but pass the flex test, now if you want to argue the validity and accuracy of the flex test you may have something.