[Millennium] Millennium Scorpius

[thirtydirtybirds]

Necro for this thread!

I recently discovered the scorpius. I don't have a huge arm for backhand, and generally don't throw more than a teebird/FD for drivers, but forehand I'm hitting 380-400 now pretty consistently.

I grabbed a 167 sparkle Q used, and a fresh bottom stamp also 167. Man this is the best long driver combo I have found yet. The Q will turn really smoothly and kinda push forward with a small fade at the end, and the bottom stamp Sirius has just a small turn and good fade. Both are orange and I haven't tried any other colors. The Q even does pretty well for me backhand, but I can't get the turn out of it to get really good distance (I have a nose up throwing issue I just can't seem to correct)

I played my first tournament this past weekend and had one of the prettiest drives ever with the sparkle Q. I ripped into it nice and low with a forehand, it bent right through a nice right to left line in the trees and right when it was about to hit the big tree at the end of the tunnel, hooked up and faded right in towards the basket. That was about a 385' drive and I ended up about 20' short left of the basket.

I was just thinking I need to grab a couple backups. Maybe try a different color or two. Very similar to my destroyer, but better. Destroyer out, scorpius in!

 

[hugheshilton]

So I bought a baby blue bottom stamp 1.7 run Sirius Scorpius. It has a moderate pop top dome, and the current grippy yet stiff Star plastic.

I'm comparing it to some other Scorpiuses I have (first runs and a 2.1 bottom stamp) and some Destroyers. The wing appears to be the "X" Destroyer wing (by which I mean it's a bit concave and thus more overstable) that you see on most Star Destroyers. The wing on the first run Scorpiuses is the "L" Destroyer wing (almost completely straight, not concave) which you see on GStar and Philo Star Destroyers. I threw this side by side with a brand new GStar Destroyer and a pop top first run Scorpius (maybe 8/10 condition). The 1.7 Scorp was by far the most overstable whereas the Destroyer and first run Scorp were similar (long flight, nice glide with a strong finish). The first run Scorpius slightly longer, probably because it's a little more worn whereas the GStar Destroyer is brand new. The 1.7 Scorpius was finishing a good 40 feet shorter and further left. The first run Scorp and Destroyer were going probably 370-390 where the 1.7 was in the 330-350 range.

The pink bottom stamp 2.1 I have also has the concave wing and even slightly higher PLH than the 1.7 with slightly less dome. It's also a little softer and a little more flexible plastic. I didn't get a chance to throw them side by side, but my assumption is that the pink will be even more overstable (although for my arm they would probably fly similarly).

For now the 1.7 Scorp will be consigned to the windy days driver bin. I like the plastic a lot, but I just don't have the arm to make it work for distance lines. I'll probably mess around with it in field practice, and I might throw it for a headwind driver. Most of the courses I play don't have strong enough winds to need something this overstable though. I'm guessing that those with big arms will really like this new 1.7 run of Scorpiuses. The one I have is definitely overstable, but it's not quite as much of a meat hook as the early 4x McBeths. I'm guessing those with 500 feet of power could make it fly really nice straight to fade distance lines.

 

[PMantle]

I'm comparing it to some other Scorpiuses I have (first runs and a 2.1 bottom stamp) and some Destroyers. The wing appears to be the "X" Destroyer wing (by which I mean it's a bit concave and thus more overstable) that you see on most Star Destroyers. The wing on the first run Scorpiuses is the "L" Destroyer wing (almost completely straight, not concave) which you see on GStar and Philo Star Destroyers.

I did not know this was a thing, but always suspected it. Thanks :thmbup:

 

[hugheshilton]

I did not know this was a thing, but always suspected it. Thanks :thmbup:

It's definitely a thing. I don't know what actually causes it mind you. I don't know if there are actually 2 different wing mold pieces or if it's the way they cool the disc or if they can "tweak" that mold piece slightly or what. But they definitely have some control over it beyond just the plastic type. The Philo Destroyers show that. Philo wanted more understable Star Destroyers and they ran them with the L wing in lighter weights. They're still Star and lots of stock Stars even in lighter weights have the X wing and are very overstable, but I'm pretty sure part of what makes the Philos less overstable is the L wing configuration.

 

[myllys]

I have a couple of pink 1.7 bottom stamps and i'd say they're a little less stable at around 450 feet than my white first runs. Having only thrown them once, this is not exactly peer reviewed research though.

I think the first runs were a bit longer, but I credit that to me getting to know them since last year. Think I need another comparison sesh before I can truly give my verdict.

 

[gerth_vader]

It's definitely a thing. I don't know what actually causes it mind you. I don't know if there are actually 2 different wing mold pieces or if it's the way they cool the disc or if they can "tweak" that mold piece slightly or what. But they definitely have some control over it beyond just the plastic type. The Philo Destroyers show that. Philo wanted more understable Star Destroyers and they ran them with the L wing in lighter weights. They're still Star and lots of stock Stars even in lighter weights have the X wing and are very overstable, but I'm pretty sure part of what makes the Philos less overstable is the L wing configuration.

i would love to know the answers to this (is there different kinds of destroyer molds)and how many destroyer molds there are. My pro looks L but to me i contribute cooling process, and different plastics. On the other hand, they sell soooo many destroyers that it would make sense to have a few molds. Then these theoretical multiple molds beng the same is another question.

 

[hugheshilton]

I have a couple of pink 1.7 bottom stamps and i'd say they're a little less stable at around 450 feet than my white first runs. Having only thrown them once, this is not exactly peer reviewed research though.

I think the first runs were a bit longer, but I credit that to me getting to know them since last year. Think I need another comparison sesh before I can truly give my verdict.

Is your white first run a bottom stamp (not sure if there actually were bottom stamps considered "first run" or not)? I have 10 or so regular stamp first runs including a white and they all fly more or less the same. The slightly flatter ones (like my yellows) are just a little less stable, but it's not enough for me to consider them for different bag slots. You throw a bit further than me so maybe that is a difference or maybe your pink 1.7 is just less stable than my blue 1.7.

 

[ODRB]

It's definitely a thing . . . they definitely have some control over it . . . Philo wanted more understable Star Destroyers and they ran them with the L wing . . . what makes the Philos less overstable is the L wing configuration.

I don't know what actually causes it mind you. I don't know if there are actually 2 different wing mold pieces or if it's the way they cool the disc or if they can "tweak" that mold piece slightly or what.

Which is it?








Come on man.

 

[hugheshilton]

Which is it?








Come on man.

What? Can't I say that there is a difference and that Innova seems to have a way of controlling that difference without actually knowing HOW Innova controls it? Innova seems to know how to run Destroyers with a more concave or more straight wing. Innova can control both the mold and the cooling process so they could be doing it either way (or some other way for all I know).

I was calling it an "L wing" and an "X wing" because it seems very similar to other discs with L and X configurations (Teebirds and Eagles for example). I haven't actually heard that anyone knows how Innova makes runs of those discs with the different wing configurations either. Do they have a totally different mold piece for the Eagle L wing and Eagle X wing or do they "tweak" the existing piece (whatever that means) or do they do something during the cooling process? Have you visited the factory recently? Have any inside information for us?

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

I don't know about wings, but I know I love my orange scorpius. Me and a buddy went and did a safari round this past weekend to warm me up for a tournament next month. He chose all the shots to really challenge what he thought were my limits (and to be fair he knows my game pretty well). He picked the first hole about 400-420', water carry, trees on the opposite bank, basket about 150' slightly uphill from the bank of the pond. There was a safe bail out area, or a small gap with a low ceiling. I went forehand scorpius to the small gap, it turned just enough to clear the trees, hooked up beautifully just after and took a perfect skip to within 20 for the deuce. He was shocked, I was slightly surprised, but after that I could not miss with the scorp. Best shot of my life I think.

 

[myllys]

Is your white first run a bottom stamp (not sure if there actually were bottom stamps considered "first run" or not)? I have 10 or so regular stamp first runs including a white and they all fly more or less the same. The slightly flatter ones (like my yellows) are just a little less stable, but it's not enough for me to consider them for different bag slots. You throw a bit further than me so maybe that is a difference or maybe your pink 1.7 is just less stable than my blue 1.7.

They are all regular stock stamp. Only bottom stamps I have are the 1.7 ones. I do love both the first runs and my blue 2.1s. The 1.7s haven't really gotten their fair chance yet.

 

[ODRB]

I was calling it an "L wing" and an "X wing" because it seems very similar to other discs with L and X configurations (Teebirds and Eagles for example). I haven't actually heard that anyone knows how Innova makes runs of those discs with the different wing configurations either. Do they have a totally different mold piece for the Eagle L wing and Eagle X wing or do they "tweak" the existing piece (whatever that means) or do they do something during the cooling process? Have you visited the factory recently? Have any inside information for us?

Eagles, Teebirds, Firebirds, Starfires and others have a separate mold piece for the "L" versions.

There's no evidence that's true for Destroyers.

 

[hugheshilton]

Eagles, Teebirds, Firebirds, Starfires and others have a separate mold piece for the "L" versions.

There's no evidence that's true for Destroyers.

So how would you explain the difference in the concavity of the wing on Destroyers then? I'm not making that up, and I'm happy to post some pics if you like, but there's a really obvious difference in wing concavity in different runs of Destroyers. I used to think all Star Destroyers were more concave than Pros and GStars just because of the plastic type, but the Philos are Star, and they have a very straight wing. You think it's just a happy accident of the cooling process? They said they ran the Philos with the intention of making them less overstable so they obviously did SOMETHING...

 

[ODRB]

Yes, there are differences. I don't think there are "X" and "L". I think there is variance.
I am quite sure, though, that if there were a Destroyer "L", Innova would market the hell out of it for all the folks you feel compelled to throw Destroyers but just cant get them to fly straight. At all. Even for a minute.

 

[New013]

I am quite sure, though, if there were a Destroyer "L",

unnecessary, commas, are unnecessary. in fact unnecessary, though, unnecessary. were be a was. in fact that last comma, unnecessary, though,

Innova would market the hell out of it for all the folks you feel

I don't know what you mean by folks but i'm triggered, though, get woke, stop feeling folks that's weird, though,

to throw Destroyers but just cant get them to fly straight. At all. Even for a minute.

$1 million dollars to you if you can post a vid of you getting any disc to fly for a minute on flat ground. $10 million if it flies straight for the entire minute, though,

 

[ODRB]

unnecessary, commas, are unnecessary. in fact unnecessary, though, unnecessary. were be a was. in fact that last comma, unnecessary, though,

Each of my commas were properly placed. (I write and edit for a living.)

It could be read:

I am quite sure Innova would market the hell out of it...

OR

f there were a Destroyer "L" Innova would market the hell out of it...

The commas create severable clauses.

Some Destroyers are flippier than others. It doesn't mean there are two molds. Or 20 (which would make more sense, based on how wide the variance between Destroyers is).

 

[hugheshilton]

Yes, there are differences. I don't think there are "X" and "L". I think there is variance.
I am quite sure, though, that if there were a Destroyer "L", Innova would market the hell out of it for all the folks you feel compelled to throw Destroyers but just cant get them to fly straight. At all. Even for a minute.

Alright, so basically you're saying you think there is variance (we agree), but it's not created by different mold pieces but by other factors. I said previously that I think that is 1 possible explanation for the variance so I don't necessarily disagree with you, although I do think Innova has some level of control over the variance (not sure whether you agree with that or not). Maybe that is the most likely explanation for it, although I think you would agree the variance is pretty big. To me the variance I see in my most overstable and understable Destroyers looks at least as big as the variance I see in the Eagle wing.

In terms of marketing, I thought Innova went away from doing L and X mold marketing a long time ago because it confused people. I suppose they did use a version of it for the RocX3 though so maybe they still do it to an extent. The Destroyer is by far Innova's most popular distance driver, and calling a variant by a different name would not necessarily cash in on that popularity even if it were just adding an X or L. Why risk half your Destroyer sales by changing the name on the disc? McBeth throws Destroyers, not Destroyer-L's. The variance means that even people who don't have the arm for the ones McBeth throws can still find a Destroyer to buy that they can throw and that sells a lot of discs.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

Soooooo..... what run is the most understable for scorpiuses (Scorpii?). I love my bottom stamp (penned S SRP) but it doesn't necessarily turn so much as move laterally. Wouldn't mind getting one that will turn over a little, like a sparkle Q will. I just like the feel of Sirius better.

 

[hugheshilton]

Soooooo..... what run is the most understable for scorpiuses (Scorpii?). I love my bottom stamp (penned S SRP) but it doesn't necessarily turn so much as move laterally. Wouldn't mind getting one that will turn over a little, like a sparkle W will. I just like the feel of Sirius better.

None of my first runs really had any turn for me out of the box, but they are definitely less overstable than the 2.1 and 1.7 bottom stamps I've thrown. They would turn a little with a headwind, so I suspect a first run would turn a little for a strong forehand or for someone with more power than me (I throw ~400). I haven't thrown a 2.1 top stamp though, so maybe you could find one of those that's less stable.

The Sparkle Q and some of the ZeroG (Blizzard) definitely have more turn out of the box. If you like Sirius, then I suspect beating one up is going to be your best bet.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

Let the cycle begin then.