minimal discs and you

[domromer]

I understand minimalism being a great learning tool. I also can understand why it can help your score: you're often better of playing a disc you're extremely comfortable with than playing a disc that is slightly more appropriate for the shot. However, I don't understand the point of being obsessive about it. I carry a bunch of molds: Aviar, Zone, Buzzz, Meteor, Teebird, Predator, Boss, Surge, XCal + a few other random molds I experiment with. However, when it comes down to it, I play %90 of disc golf with the Aviar, Buzzz, Teebird, and Pred, with an occasional Boss when things get long. Is there really any reason for me to be more purest than this? When I want to throw a turnover shot with some tail wind, why not bust out the Meteor? When I want to putt into some horrible head wind, why not play the Zone? When I want to throw a fade shot into some turbulent kickin' wind, why not play the XCal? Question: does anyone think my scores would improve by taking these rare/situational use discs out of my bag?

Yes

 

[discspeed]

I understand minimalism being a great learning tool. I also can understand why it can help your score: you're often better of playing a disc you're extremely comfortable with than playing a disc that is slightly more appropriate for the shot. However, I don't understand the point of being obsessive about it. I carry a bunch of molds: Aviar, Zone, Buzzz, Meteor, Teebird, Predator, Boss, Surge, XCal + a few other random molds I experiment with. However, when it comes down to it, I play %90 of disc golf with the Aviar, Buzzz, Teebird, and Pred, with an occasional Boss when things get long. Is there really any reason for me to be more purest than this? When I want to throw a turnover shot with some tail wind, why not bust out the Meteor? When I want to putt into some horrible head wind, why not play the Zone? When I want to throw a fade shot into some turbulent kickin' wind, why not play the XCal? Question: does anyone think my scores would improve by taking these rare/situational use discs out of my bag?

I guess you won't know if you don't try. Give it some time and see how you are doing. Personally minimalism is my center. I always try and throw as few molds as possible, but I do recognize that different molds possess different characteristics that can be very advantageous. So I pare down my bag as much as possible, and then I'll try something new. Maybe it will stay in for a bit. Sooner or later I will weigh the possible advantages of a different mold vs. the consistency and touch that I have with my main discs. Too many discs/molds hurts my consistency/touch, and too few and I'm making things hard for myself or I'm vulnerable in certain situations.

I really believe in minimalism when it comes to # of discs and how much I use my main discs. I really don't understand how anyone could possibly use 5 different discs of the same mold. A mold has certain flight characteristics and the amount of wear simply changes the angle/speed that you have to throw to get those characteristics. I can see 2 or 3 at the very most versions of one mold...Maybe the other 2 are for practice/breaking in, but for me I think this is hurting your touch by taking reps away from your main players. This is why I like premium plastic--because I feel I can develop better touch by throwing the exact same disc the same way hundreds of times over a long period with very little change in stability.

I do carry a couple of trick discs that are nothing like my main players. I have one super flippy disc and one super overstable disc. I also carry a super overstable version of my D driver. This discs have such strong flight characteristics that they are predictable even though I don't really develop "touch" with them like I do with my main players. The first two are for trick shots (rollers, thumbers, extreme lines out of trouble) and the 3rd is for very windy days. I don't even throw these discs once a round, but at certain times and on certain days they earn their keep and reinforce their place in my bag. These are days where "touch" shots are out the window anyway.

 

[BIG MACK]

I think it's hilarious how many on this site think playing with the fewest amount of discs is like some kind of badass badge of honor. Bottom line is the final score and when it's all said and done discs are tallied and included in that score. It's all about knowing your discs and being able to execute what the disc is designed to do. If you have 20 different molds and are able to throw them all consistently then by all means go for it. If you have a hard time being consistent with an XCaliber that you throw maybe once every other round...then maybe you shouldn't throw that disc, or...throw it more until you do learn it and can be consistent.

Throw with many molds, throw with few molds...doesn't really matter. Just know your discs...whatever molds and/or levels of wear.

 

[Blake_T1]

I really don't understand how anyone could possibly use 5 different discs of the same mold. A mold has certain flight characteristics and the amount of wear simply changes the angle/speed that you have to throw to get those characteristics. I can see 2 or 3 at the very most versions of one mold...Maybe the other 2 are for practice/breaking in, but for me I think this is hurting your touch by taking reps away from your main players. This is why I like premium plastic--because I feel I can develop better touch by throwing the exact same disc the same way hundreds of times over a long period with very little change in stability.

the times people carry this many generally occurs when it's:
1. their primary/only midrange mold.
2. their primary/only putter mold.
3. their primary go-to workhorse driver mold. this happens far fewer than #1 and #2.

for #1 and #2 i regularly carry at least 4 of each, if my bag were bigger, it'd be in the 5-6 range. a 10 year old roc vs. a 4 year old roc vs. a 2 year old roc vs. 3 stages of newer than that rocs has its time and place. i don't see it as ever taking any reps away, seeing as how i've thrown the older discs many more times than i have the newer discs. once you've taken a disc mold through its life progression 10+ times, you pretty much know how it's going to fly at any given time. you generally know the discs you've thrown a lot more than you know the discs you haven't thrown as much. if you are familiar with the mold, you know what the discs you haven't thrown as much will fly like. which one is the main player, the one that's seen 4,000 throws or the one that's seen 250 throws? if you have worked with the mold long enough to achieve complete mastery of it in its stages, they are all still your main players.

I think it's hilarious how many on this site think playing with the fewest amount of discs is like some kind of badass badge of honor. Bottom line is the final score and when it's all said and done discs are tallied and included in that score. It's all about knowing your discs and being able to execute what the disc is designed to do. If you have 20 different molds and are able to throw them all consistently then by all means go for it. If you have a hard time being consistent with an XCaliber that you throw maybe once every other round...then maybe you shouldn't throw that disc, or...throw it more until you do learn it and can be consistent.

Throw with many molds, throw with few molds...doesn't really matter. Just know your discs...whatever molds and/or levels of wear.

people misinterpret it in both directions. someone who has been playing 6 months and is carrying 15 molds isn't going to develop a full skill set of throws. a person who has been playing 10 years carrying 3 molds and has a full skill set of throws isn't going to maximize their scoring opportunities.

i would never generalize about things like "the bottom line is the final score" because people inherently want to think they are better than they are and farther along the learning curve than they might actually be. there's a point when someone knows they have enough shots in their bag to start seeing where they can pick up strokes by having an additional disc mold(s). carrying a beat in leopard is not an excuse for not having an acceptable anhyzer.

i agree people can learn their discs quite well if they work with them enough in the right way, but at the same time, there's a point when it's counter-productive (too many molds = not learning new shots/skills) but it's also possible to be counter-productive in the opposite direction (blindly believing one should carry a fixed number of molds only to have discs that can't perform certain shots well).

most of the advice on this subject is targeted at those who haven't developed a full array of shots, which is most players.

 

[optowesome]

I would fit into the category of players that use minimalism to get better overall. After talking to BLake last week, I realized all the shots I am missing. I only have 6 discs in my bag right now(stalker, whippet, 2 Rocs, 2 Voodoo) so I can work on all of the new ideas.

 

[discspeed]

I really don't understand how anyone could possibly use 5 different discs of the same mold. A mold has certain flight characteristics and the amount of wear simply changes the angle/speed that you have to throw to get those characteristics. I can see 2 or 3 at the very most versions of one mold...Maybe the other 2 are for practice/breaking in, but for me I think this is hurting your touch by taking reps away from your main players. This is why I like premium plastic--because I feel I can develop better touch by throwing the exact same disc the same way hundreds of times over a long period with very little change in stability.

the times people carry this many generally occurs when it's:
1. their primary/only midrange mold.
2. their primary/only putter mold.
3. their primary go-to workhorse driver mold. this happens far fewer than #1 and #2.

for #1 and #2 i regularly carry at least 4 of each, if my bag were bigger, it'd be in the 5-6 range. a 10 year old roc vs. a 4 year old roc vs. a 2 year old roc vs. 3 stages of newer than that rocs has its time and place. i don't see it as ever taking any reps away, seeing as how i've thrown the older discs many more times than i have the newer discs. once you've taken a disc mold through its life progression 10+ times, you pretty much know how it's going to fly at any given time. you generally know the discs you've thrown a lot more than you know the discs you haven't thrown as much. if you are familiar with the mold, you know what the discs you haven't thrown as much will fly like. which one is the main player, the one that's seen 4,000 throws or the one that's seen 250 throws? if you have worked with the mold long enough to achieve complete mastery of it in its stages, they are all still your main players.

I can't even imagine this honestly. I learned with premium plastic for the most part and this seems alien to me. I don't think I've ever carried a disc that would be 1/2 as beat as a 10 yr old Roc and I don't have a clue what I'd do with it. I throw baseline putters, but I've never used the same mold for more than two years, and I've never had a putter in my bag that had years of wear. I've been using my main Voodoo for a year now and its barely different from a new one. It will be interesting sticking it out and seeing what my putter will do after years of use. I have learned to make a neutral stability disc to fly on all the lines that it can, but I guess I'm missing some shots I've seen people do with really beat discs. I'm not sure I'd be better with those shots in my bag, but perhaps. I also heard advice from some pro early on that you shouldn't get too used to a disc that is very hard to replace, which I guess I consider a super beat disc to be an example of. I've always lost discs before they got really beat up as well. I used to play in lots of snow, and now I play around a shitload of water. 1.5 years is the longest any single disc has ever been in my bag mostly because of this (and changing discs). It would be interesting to play a round with you.

 

[Frank Delicious]

I can't even imagine this honestly. I learned with premium plastic for the most part and this seems alien to me. I don't think I've ever carried a disc that would be 1/2 as beat as a 10 yr old Roc and I don't have a clue what I'd do with it. I throw baseline putters, but I've never used the same mold for more than two years, and I've never had a putter in my bag that had years of wear. I've been using my main Voodoo for a year now and its barely different from a new one. It will be interesting sticking it out and seeing what my putter will do after years of use. I have learned to make a neutral stability disc to fly on all the lines that it can, but I guess I'm missing some shots I've seen people do with really beat discs. I'm not sure I'd be better with those shots in my bag, but perhaps. I also heard advice from some pro early on that you shouldn't get too used to a disc that is very hard to replace, which I guess I consider a super beat disc to be an example of. I've always lost discs before they got really beat up as well. I used to play in lots of snow, and now I play around a shitload of water. 1.5 years is the longest any single disc has ever been in my bag mostly because of this (and changing discs). It would be interesting to play a round with you.

I have some rocs, wizards and CE eagles that are pretty old. I see what you are saying about beat rocs being hard to replace but I get around that by rotating my rocs in my bag. I have maybe 10 really beat rocs, a dozen beat rocs and a whole bunch of rocs that are worn in. I also rotate my wizards and eagles to a lesser extent.

That is obviously not an option for everyone since not every one can have dozens of beat discs on hand.

There is something that is so nice about a roc that slowly beats in over a year or two. The flight changes so subtly over that time I don't even think about it and just know how it is going to fly.

I also don't play around a ton of water so I have that going for me.

I will take some pics of my older beat discs later at some point.

 

[JHern]

After one year of playing I only had 4 or so discs: a Magnet, a Stratus, a Z-Glide, and a Star Sidewinder. Then, I started shopping for more discs when I moved to the US, where they are far cheaper, and this encouraged me to be experimental and a growing disc whore. After 2 years I've thrown lots of different molds and seen how they fly for me and others, and satisfied a lot of curiosity.

My bag right this second...
-DX 175 XD (touch putter)
-DX 175 Classic Roc (workhorse putter)
-174 Champion Panther (turnable mid)
-178 Crystal Z Buzzz (stable mid)
-161 Champion Monarch (roller)
-ESP Avenger SS, 170 (roller, dusk lighting and serious hyzer flips)
-Star Sidewinder, 167 (flip to long turning anny)
-Z Stalker, 169 (stable long mid)
-150 Champion Valkyrie (touch driver)
-Half beat DX Valkyrie, 175 (line-shaping driver)
-Slightly beat Star Valkyrie, 175 (hold-the-line driver)
-172 g Opto Striker (shape-able line driver)
-Beat 164 Star Wraith (distance with more arm driver)
-Pristine domey 171 Star Wraith (forehands, headwind and strong fade driver)
-Beat to hell 173 Pro Destroyer (flip for big distance driver)
-New Z Surge SS, 170 (forehand, flex shots)

That's 16. On some courses I'll only use 4-5 max. I doubt that many people on this forum have the privilege of playing as wide a variety of courses as I do here in NorCal (and I'm all over the place in NorCal, constantly). I can probably take the 150 Valk, the Champ Monarch, the Sidewinder, the beat Star Wraith, and Z Surge SS out of my bag with little affect on my game, and probably also the Striker. That gets me to 10 discs. I'm still learning the Buzzz, but I'm forcing myself to use it on shots in the 150-250 range. I'm switching over from the XD to the Classic Roc as my main putter, but I haven't removed the XD quite yet. So, I guess with 9 discs I can cover most of the territory. But I would have a difficult time paring the bag down further than that, since I can think of so many different placements I've ended up with so often on all these courses, and it would be tough.

But, if I were forced to pare down, here is how it would go...

2-disc bag:
-Classic Roc
-Stalker

3-disc bag:
-Classic Roc
-Stalker
-DX Valkyrie

4-Disc bag:
-Classic Roc
-Buzzz
-Stalker
-DX Valkyrie

5-Disc bag:
-Classic Roc
-Buzzz
-ESP Avenger SS
-Stalker
-DX Valkyrie

6-Disc bag:
-Classic Roc
-Buzzz
-ESP Avenger SS
-Stalker
-DX Valkyrie
-Star domey Wraith

And so on...

 

[Blake_T1]

I can't even imagine this honestly. I learned with premium plastic for the most part and this seems alien to me. I don't think I've ever carried a disc that would be 1/2 as beat as a 10 yr old Roc and I don't have a clue what I'd do with it. I throw baseline putters, but I've never used the same mold for more than two years, and I've never had a putter in my bag that had years of wear. I've been using my main Voodoo for a year now and its barely different from a new one. It will be interesting sticking it out and seeing what my putter will do after years of use. I have learned to make a neutral stability disc to fly on all the lines that it can, but I guess I'm missing some shots I've seen people do with really beat discs. I'm not sure I'd be better with those shots in my bag, but perhaps. I also heard advice from some pro early on that you shouldn't get too used to a disc that is very hard to replace, which I guess I consider a super beat disc to be an example of. I've always lost discs before they got really beat up as well. I used to play in lots of snow, and now I play around a shitload of water. 1.5 years is the longest any single disc has ever been in my bag mostly because of this (and changing discs). It would be interesting to play a round with you.

you aren't alone in this. people who never gave it a chance (read as: most who started 2003 to present) never took the time to do this. if you are good with a rotation on beat in discs there aren't very many discs that are irreplaceable, and none are really irreplaceable, it just might take a few weeks to get another one there.

it's not even about having really beat discs, it's more just about throwing broken in plastic. even if someone condones throwing plastic that doesn't change, i'm betting 90% of their bag are discs that are seasoned with smoothed off rims, no flashing, etc. the hard to replace aspect is usually more in reference to things like 1st run CE TL's, 2001 CE Rocs, etc.

midranges, putters, and fairway drivers get lost way less than distance drivers. at the same time, if you work with discs that are a little too overstable when brand new to be ideal, it's more that you are "working toward a sweet spot" as they age vs. "working away from a sweet spot" with discs that are perfect out of the box. what you find with say a 2 year old roc vs. a meteor is that a 2 year old roc will perform all kinds of touch/finesse shots but will still behave better into the wind than a brand new meteor.

it's funny though, you'll see a lot of pros bags who carry kc rocs and kc aviars and you won't be able to read a single hotstamp on any of them (if there's any foil left on top at all).

 

[black udder]

I would fit into the category of players that use minimalism to get better overall. After talking to BLake last week, I realized all the shots I am missing. I only have 6 discs in my bag right now(stalker, whippet, 2 Rocs, 2 Voodoo) so I can work on all of the new ideas.

Is that what you'd take to a tournament, too?

As somebody above said, I'm too undisciplined to restrict myself to that few discs. I have 2 discs strictly for putting, then I have 2-3 more putters for driving/approaching. I'm already at 5 putters! I play on several courses that have water or OB where things can get lost, so I feel obligated to carry backups or have discs cross over in usage.

I agree with learning the discs and find myself catering more to a used/new of one mold rather than two new discs with different characteristics.

But I also fall into Blake's "developing player" skill set, too. I can do a lot, but I'm by no means consistent from day to day.

A hole I play at the Grange really sums up my poor scoring. It's a dog leg left downhill, then back uphill at the bend. It's probably 330' or so and in the woods. There is a clear fairway and I know people deuce it. The smartest play is probably to throw a mid range or putter down to the turn, then chuck a putter or mid range to the green, the putt out. But not me. I have to throw a driver with some hyzer and try and put something halfway up the hill to give me either a putt or an easy approach. I guess it might be a 50/50 shot as to whether I get an easy 3 because I hit a tree and drop in the fairway at the bottom or peel into the woods and take a 4 or 5.

 

[Star Shark]

I currently carry 19 discs, but not that many molds <5 of these discs, I almost never touch>

2 Zeroline Spikes
3 Star Sharks
1 Star Eagle
3 Star TLs
5 Star SLs
2 Star Starfires <haven't thrown these much at all since I got the Eagle>
1 Star Firebird <never use it>
2 Star Bosses <I can't really throw these, but they're fun to screw with on the field>

Realize that I don't play much in the wind as that gets to me really bad <hard contacts are a bitch>.

and the multiples I carry are for backups and mutliples for field practice

 

[discspeed]

you aren't alone in this. people who never gave it a chance (read as: most who started 2003 to present) never took the time to do this. if you are good with a rotation on beat in discs there aren't very many discs that are irreplaceable, and none are really irreplaceable, it just might take a few weeks to get another one there.

it's not even about having really beat discs, it's more just about throwing broken in plastic. even if someone condones throwing plastic that doesn't change, i'm betting 90% of their bag are discs that are seasoned with smoothed off rims, no flashing, etc. the hard to replace aspect is usually more in reference to things like 1st run CE TL's, 2001 CE Rocs, etc.

midranges, putters, and fairway drivers get lost way less than distance drivers. at the same time, if you work with discs that are a little too overstable when brand new to be ideal, it's more that you are "working toward a sweet spot" as they age vs. "working away from a sweet spot" with discs that are perfect out of the box. what you find with say a 2 year old roc vs. a meteor is that a 2 year old roc will perform all kinds of touch/finesse shots but will still behave better into the wind than a brand new meteor.

it's funny though, you'll see a lot of pros bags who carry kc rocs and kc aviars and you won't be able to read a single hotstamp on any of them (if there's any foil left on top at all).

I started playing seriously in 2003, which is when the Buzzz came out, and it was definitely a pivotal time for disc golf. The more durable plastic always appealed to me (I did give the Roc rotation a year). I understand that you are teaching what is greatly a lost art that many players who have started in the past few years have never even heard of. I even give the advice of base plastic rotation to a lot of newer players, especially if they are throwing discs with anny to go straight, etc. I also think that a lot of great players have come up the ranks never throwing baseline mids/drivers...not to say its best for the average joe.

I also hate "new" discs. I immediately obsessively de-flash all the discs I buy and I also enjoy getting a few good whacks on them right away. This gives me confidence that a disc I want to be overstable truly is, and not just that the flashing or anything else with a short timer is making it that way. It also helps the discs glide and reduces the release speed they need to work. I certainly recognize that. This also makes them easy to replace. As far as working towards/away from the sweet spot...I would rather have discs that aren't working in that manner at all (or at least painfully slow). I still think there is merit to the fact that I can have a Buzzz in my bag a long time without it changing at all (de-flashed and a few good whacks in). It can go from overstable to the really sweet spot over a couple of years and then still takes quite a bit longer to get really flippy.

You're right about the pros with the KC Rocs and Aviars blanked out...I see those a lot down here. As always I appreciate the discourse Blake. You make me think more than most. 8)

 

[Blake_T1]

I also think that a lot of great players have come up the ranks never throwing baseline mids/drivers...not to say its best for the average joe.

some have, but many have been around for a lot longer than people are aware of. people tend to look at when they turned pro, but most usually were an am for several years, and rec before that.

the more durable plastic appealed to me briefly but it didn't take me long to realize i didn't like how it flew compared to seasoned dx plastic. most players have heard of a disc cycle, but to quote one player i was teaching "i've never broken in a disc because i figured i was beyond that in my game already and didn't need to experience it."

I also hate "new" discs. I immediately obsessively de-flash all the discs I buy and I also enjoy getting a few good whacks on them right away. This gives me confidence that a disc I want to be overstable truly is, and not just that the flashing or anything else with a short timer is making it that way. It also helps the discs glide and reduces the release speed they need to work. I certainly recognize that. This also makes them easy to replace.

this is partially true and partially not true. unless you are throwing discs that are fairly unpopular, the chances of getting a new disc from the same run 3 months apart is slim to nil. i've been told i'm crazy for throwing discs in different stages of wear by people who throw down $75+ for star stamped destroyers. in many cases with the benign wing shaped ultra high speed stuff, 2 runs can be more different than 6+ months worth of wear on a disc.

i always wonder just how fast people actually break in discs... pros break their discs in faster because they throw harder and often play/practice more than the average joe. when a disc hits a tree going 70mph, what happens to the disc is more than 10 hits at 35mph. i generally find the speed at which break in occurs for ams is greatly exaggerated unless they throw the same disc off the tee on every hole.

You're right about the pros with the KC Rocs and Aviars blanked out...I see those a lot down here.

hehe... to those that haven't seen this before, it's not that they intentionally removed the stamps, it's that they've thrown the disc so many times that they've worn the entire hot stamp off due to use. oddly enough, the same pro that may have given a "don't throw discs you can't replace" probably has a bag full of blank top kc rocs and aviars that have seen 1000+ throws each.

with a lot of these things, i just think that if people go out and give it a legitimate and honest chance with a "i want to see why people do this" mindset and work with it until they do, they will see a lot of reasons behind it. too many people write it off without doing it and others may try it for a few weeks expecting it to fail. in your case, it seems you just like the buzzz more than the roc.

 

[Frank Delicious]

i always wonder just how fast people actually break in discs... pros break their discs in faster because they throw harder and often play/practice more than the average joe. when a disc hits a tree going 70mph, what happens to the disc is more than 10 hits at 35mph. i generally find the speed at which break in occurs for ams is greatly exaggerated unless they throw the same disc off the tee on every hole.

I think some of exaggerated break in time for Ams is that their power or form improves making the disc fly differently than it did a few months earlier.

 

[discspeed]

To give some honest perspective on myself as a player so you know where I'm coming from...

I play Open 90% of the time, but I've only cashed once. I have missed cash by a single stroke at least 6 times. I have won multiple ADV tournaments. I'm truly a cusp player trying to push over the hump. It is tough playing OPEN in FL because of the combination of high end talent and very small OPEN fields. The first 1-4 places are usually pretty locked up with a bunch of similarly skilled guys fighting for the last couple of cash spots.

I can throw 400' shots that don't turnover with Orcs/Forces pretty consistently and accurately.

I usually disc up to my fwy drivers @ about 320' unless it is wide open. I then disc up to the Orc @ around 350-360'.

My biggest ego-boosting moment was when Ken Climo told me "whatever it takes to throw a disc with power and accuracy, you've got it". He also makes fun of me for my poor showing in tournaments.

My biggest issue is keeping cool/playing like myself in tournaments...mental stuff. Its hard for me to be more specific than that. I've recently quit a bad habit and I'm hoping that helps my mental game next tournament. BTW--I learned to play the game by reading all your stuff on this thread way back when you first put it up. I didn't know any good players and I threw 400' based on your/dave d. teachings about form and grip before I ever saw anyone else throw that far. Thanks.

this is partially true and partially not true. unless you are throwing discs that are fairly unpopular, the chances of getting a new disc from the same run 3 months apart is slim to nil. i've been told i'm crazy for throwing discs in different stages of wear by people who throw down $75+ for star stamped destroyers. in many cases with the benign wing shaped ultra high speed stuff, 2 runs can be more different than 6+ months worth of wear on a disc.

i always wonder just how fast people actually break in discs... pros break their discs in faster because they throw harder and often play/practice more than the average joe. when a disc hits a tree going 70mph, what happens to the disc is more than 10 hits at 35mph. i generally find the speed at which break in occurs for ams is greatly exaggerated unless they throw the same disc off the tee on every hole.

I'm crazy about discs...I've worked at 2 retail stores and I've felt unknown quantities. I also didn't make any $$ because I basically just took discs instead. I've thrown a lot of different discs. I buy multiples of runs I like, and with the Clearwater Disc Golf Store I get the privilege of doing this. I do break in discs fast for all the reasons you state above. I used to break them in faster because I played more, shuled more, tried to throw harder, and played tightly wooded courses.

Sorry for the long read, I just know what advice and responses I get from you will be even more valuable if you know my perspective. 8)

Oh yeah, and I guess it is a safe assumption that I just like the Buzzz better. :lol:

 

[tigel]

I think it's hilarious how many on this site think playing with the fewest amount of discs is like some kind of badass badge of honor. Bottom line is the final score and when it's all said and done discs are tallied and included in that score. It's all about knowing your discs and being able to execute what the disc is designed to do. If you have 20 different molds and are able to throw them all consistently then by all means go for it. If you have a hard time being consistent with an XCaliber that you throw maybe once every other round...then maybe you shouldn't throw that disc, or...throw it more until you do learn it and can be consistent.

Throw with many molds, throw with few molds...doesn't really matter. Just know your discs...whatever molds and/or levels of wear.

I think blake nailed this on the wall. To put my 2cents in there, I will say your final score means very little to me as a "new player" (less than 6 months). I've had rounds where I have gone -3 when I normally shoot +5. It just depends. When I make a putt 100 out that is released clearly wrong, hits a tree because of a grip lock, but still finds its way to the basket... is that a legit skilled throw? No. What if I want to throw a hyzer line but end up throwing it dead straight and manage to get through the trees and park it? Does that make me a skilled player? To everyone else it does, but I wanted a hyzer line. I think consistency and not lying to yourself is the deciding factor.

My first month I got THREE aces. 250, 275, and a 340ft holes. The next few months I played really well I thought. Personally I think it was beginners luck because as I started improving my skill, I started noticing OAT, or lines I should have thrown, or actually calling myself out on a successful, but un-successful putt (where it goes in, but form was awful). I'd rather it miss but have perfect form than make it with crap form. My first few months I would have gone for the crap form just because my final score was better.


Back on subject....


I've been playing almost 8 hours a day the past 4 days... Having nothing to do has been nice!

I'm seeing with my new Mako having a midrange is very important to ME. I can now put 80-100% into my midrange that I would have put 50-60% power on my teebird to make the same shot. I've also been able to cut back on my overhand throws to having a more consistent and accurate midrange shot.

As far as my bag goes, I think having the knowledge I do from this website, and my professional friends really gives me an advantage. I know having too few molds will hurt me in the long run, and I know having too many molds too quickly will hurt me as well in the long run. I'm only focused on long term goals so keeping all this in mind really helps me decide what I need to have in my bag at this period of my disc golf career.

Putter: ?????
Midrange: 180 Star Mako (using as putter right now and loving it)
Fairway: Teebird (debating over Champion or DX)
Max D driver: Beat Ch. Wraith
Overstable driver: 175 Z Force

I feel like my game is really improving just in the last four days. My only negative aspect of my game right now is getting my teebird to do an accurate anny line. I can get it to anny with out a problem, I'm just having trouble making it go in the line I want it to. I've experimented with a Sidewinder and my Old C.E. Valk. I'm also considering a DX leo thats beat the hell. However, like Blake said, I don't want to go understable if I can't get my Teebird to do what I want it to. The only way I really want to put a SW/Valk/Leo in my bag is if it makes my anny lines EASIER, not my only option for an anny line.

I honestly could just use my beat DX teebird for my anny disc and keep my molds to a minimal. I know having minimal molds is good, but I don't want to just do it to do it..

 

[Blake_T1]

I play Open 90% of the time, but I've only cashed once. I have missed cash by a single stroke at least 6 times. I have won multiple ADV tournaments. I'm truly a cusp player trying to push over the hump. It is tough playing OPEN in FL because of the combination of high end talent and very small OPEN fields. The first 1-4 places are usually pretty locked up with a bunch of similarly skilled guys fighting for the last couple of cash spots.

I can throw 400' shots that don't turnover with Orcs/Forces pretty consistently and accurately.

I usually disc up to my fwy drivers @ about 320' unless it is wide open. I then disc up to the Orc @ around 350-360'.

My biggest ego-boosting moment was when Ken Climo told me "whatever it takes to throw a disc with power and accuracy, you've got it". He also makes fun of me for my poor showing in tournaments.

My biggest issue is keeping cool/playing like myself in tournaments...mental stuff. Its hard for me to be more specific than that. I've recently quit a bad habit and I'm hoping that helps my mental game next tournament. BTW--I learned to play the game by reading all your stuff on this thread way back when you first put it up. I didn't know any good players and I threw 400' based on your/dave d. teachings about form and grip before I ever saw anyone else throw that far. Thanks.

i'm not saying you don't have game, but you do appear to be on the cusp. the hardest part about being 1 out of the cash all the time is that when a big tournament pops up, there's 25 guys that will be approximately equal skill and you'll still be 1 out of the cash. most of these guys have 10-15+ years experience on you, and those 10-15 years were spent in the standard plastic eras, so they often have a much larger bag of tricks to dig from. the big separator i've found from guys rated 1000 vs. those rated 1020+ isn't distance nor putting. it's a slight edge in shot execution and about 10-20 more shots in the bag.

half of the edge of working in the older era isn't about throwing beat plastic, but learning some crazy f'n lines that you can only really learn throwing beat plastic and translating all that you have learned onto whatever you are throwing at the time.

 

[tigel]

(I missed all of page 4 replies...)

After reading page 4 and giving DX plastic a shot (I have two teebirds, again, one beat to hell, and one fairly new), I'm still curious if this mindset works in 2009. I love my DX teebirds, and I don't plan to stop throwing them for the reason of I keep looking forward to when I get to the "sweet spot". I'll be honest, I haven't found it yet and it's hard to keep them in my bag when overall it's blah. It's much easier just to go to a champion or star plastic. I always ask the question "is it worth it?" to myself. There are so many more options that 2003 didn't have. It just makes me question the beat disc talk. Then again, the pro's/open players I play with never throw DX so maybe they're influencing my mind set.

 

[discspeed]

i'm not saying you don't have game, but you do appear to be on the cusp. the hardest part about being 1 out of the cash all the time is that when a big tournament pops up, there's 25 guys that will be approximately equal skill and you'll still be 1 out of the cash. most of these guys have 10-15+ years experience on you, and those 10-15 years were spent in the standard plastic eras, so they often have a much larger bag of tricks to dig from. the big separator i've found from guys rated 1000 vs. those rated 1020+ isn't distance nor putting. it's a slight edge in shot execution and about 10-20 more shots in the bag.

half of the edge of working in the older era isn't about throwing beat plastic, but learning some crazy f'n lines that you can only really learn throwing beat plastic and translating all that you have learned onto whatever you are throwing at the time.

Very true. Most of the guys I play against grew up in FL playing frisbee on the beach. I learned golf discs before I learned to throw a lid. They are very smooth/consistent and can throw rollers very well, know a bunch of trick shots to get out of trouble, turbo putt from the palmettos, and other related things that I have just begun to work on since moving here. They envy my power and line drive game, but I also envy what they have that I don't. The way most of the courses are down here its still about them getting more birdies on holes I should easily birdie, but somehow I too often get shaky and lose "the feel" during tournaments.

Anyway, I'm definitely going to keep beating my beat discs and learning how to use them. My Meteor is well over a year old and is flippier than any mid I've had. I'm not changing putters again so I should have some really beat ones sooner or later. I'm throwing my really flippy Monarch a lot in practice to get used to throwing with a lot of hyzer and still getting the release point/shot height under control. Hopefully I will eventually have some super beat Orcs to phase out the Monarch. Thanks again.

 

[Blake_T1]

I too often get shaky and lose "the feel" during tournaments.

Anyway, I'm definitely going to keep beating my beat discs and learning how to use them. My Meteor is well over a year old and is flippier than any mid I've had. I'm not changing putters again so I should have some really beat ones sooner or later. I'm throwing my really flippy Monarch a lot in practice to get used to throwing with a lot of hyzer and still getting the release point/shot height under control. Hopefully I will eventually have some super beat Orcs to phase out the Monarch. Thanks again.

the feel comes back if you disc down to slower plastic. i'd recommend investing in an x buzzz or two... domey ones if you can find them (last year they were domier than they are this year). your current mid set doesn't do much for finesse. z buzzz's, meteors, etc. still need to have a lot of gas on them. domey x buzzz's are slow and versatile and have much better break in characteristics than other buzzz's.

same goes for monarchs, orcs, forces, etc. they all need to be thrown hard and fast. a few broken in slower items you can basically work on some snap shots that will still yield a decent flight path when you pare down the body motion and just give them a quick firm pull.