minimal discs and you

[elnino]

I would fit into the category of players that use minimalism to get better overall. After talking to BLake last week, I realized all the shots I am missing. I only have 6 discs in my bag right now(stalker, whippet, 2 Rocs, 2 Voodoo) so I can work on all of the new ideas.

what shots are you missing? i think min discs helps you learn a certain disc! i carry 8 molds and that is down from 15molds....now i play a very well designed course that has three sets of tees and 4 basket location in a heavily wooded park! Went to a open course with tons of wind and walls of thorns designed by the same guy and it played very different...i know i would have gotten killed with just my teebirds and avairs. but i would have learned a lot too! so i think it is great practice just dont commit to having low molds do what you need to play well and have fun doing it!!!

 

[tigel]

So from what I'm seeing, a successful player uses minimalism to achieve his 15+ disc bag or however many he needs. Which to find that number you need to use minimalism. It seems to me Minimalism is more of a tool to learning a select amount of discs and improving your game. It's probably the best tool for learning "disc skill" and figuring out what you truly need in your bag. I think to play disc golf with a "minimalism" attitude only will hurt you vs someone who uses Minimalism as a tool instead of an attitude. Does that sound about right? That's the way I'm seeing it, and I really like that idea.

 

[Blake_T1]

It seems to me Minimalism is more of a tool to learning a select amount of discs and improving your game. It's probably the best tool for learning "disc skill" and figuring out what you truly need in your bag. I think to play disc golf with a "minimalism" attitude only will hurt you vs someone who uses Minimalism as a tool instead of an attitude. Does that sound about right?

that's very close, but i consider it about 80%/20% for tool/attitude.

while it definitely helps in learning, discs should EARN their way into your bag on a basis of excellence and need, imo. when a new disc comes out i am usually skeptical and it takes a lot for a disc to impress me. i know others that when a new disc comes out it's like a carpenter who just bought a new hammer and everything looks like a nail.

when a brand new super high speed disc hits the market, you can watch as about half the am field falls off a few strokes since half of them bought it and want it to be their new go-to driver without taking the time to master it and get to know its subtleties.

for me, a disc should prove itself beyond a reasonable doubt in order to find its way in. it would be silly to keep an excellent disc out of the bag in the name of mold counts, but at the same time, too many people let redundant and unnecessary discs in.

 

[discspeed]

This weekend I decided to go ultra minimal with my putters...single mold, single plastic, single run...I just really like having the same exact feel in my hand when putting and approaching. So I took out my different Voodoo and put in a fresh version of my putter. It worked really well in the wind for the most part. So soon I'll have 3 stages of wear with my main putter. Its nice because my new ones are quite stiff and my broken in one is softer as well as being more understable. I'm not sure why this didn't occur to me earlier... :roll: :lol:

 

[Blake_T1]

This weekend I decided to go ultra minimal with my putters...single mold, single plastic, single run...I just really like having the same exact feel in my hand when putting and approaching. So I took out my different Voodoo and put in a fresh version of my putter. It worked really well in the wind for the most part. So soon I'll have 3 stages of wear with my main putter. Its nice because my new ones are quite stiff and my broken in one is softer as well as being more understable. I'm not sure why this didn't occur to me earlier..

when it comes to putters, especially stable to overstable putters it's often better to mix up more than just wear, unless you really have a full array of them.

with my putters i generally carry:
1. stable driving putter (175g, slightly beat)
2. approach putter (170-172g, moderately beat)
3. putting putter (165-168g, newish)
4. finesse approach/anhyzer/trickshot (170-172g severely beat)
5. beat driving putter (175g, really beat, i rarely carry this one anymore).

flippier putters are less dependent on having mixed weights, but with stable putters sometimes that will do more than having varying degrees of wear.

 

[discspeed]

when it comes to putters, especially stable to overstable putters it's often better to mix up more than just wear, unless you really have a full array of them.

with my putters i generally carry:
1. stable driving putter (175g, slightly beat)
2. approach putter (170-172g, moderately beat)
3. putting putter (165-168g, newish)
4. finesse approach/anhyzer/trickshot (170-172g severely beat)
5. beat driving putter (175g, really beat, i rarely carry this one anymore).

flippier putters are less dependent on having mixed weights, but with stable putters sometimes that will do more than having varying degrees of wear.

My Voodoos start out slightly overstable. I drive with putters a little less in general since dropping my Wizard/Warlock because I don't think the Voodoo is quite as long in general (seems slower). The thing is, whether throwing or putting, none of the other voodoos I've had seem to glide quite like my organics. They haven't been out long enough for McCormack to have experimented much with the plastics, so I don't have that many options. Perhaps I'll try a lighter one for more glide, buy my beat putter one glides really well. Most likely my beat one is going to be a little too beat to be my main putter soon, so they one I added for driving is gong to break in to be my putter.

 

[thecoyotekitchen1]

I have been a long time scavenger of the forums and this has been the most interesting topic to me so far. I have read and reread this thread 5+ times. I have been a "gadget guy" for quite some time. I have hundreds of discs with dozens of molds, with every line of plastic in those molds. I love sitting around at night "building the perfect" bag. I have had bag setups with 25+ molds before. Problem has always been that I didn't REALLY KNOW my discs, wasn't consistent and didn't score where I wanted. I used to throw rocs only, was loving them, but after splitting my fav roc, spending several months on a newer one and then losing that in a lake, I was fed up with "breaking in" baseline plastic. Right now, my mid duties are split between Comets and Flat-Top Cros.

Recently, I decided to make my bag simple. The last month I have been throwing 11x firebirds, Star Valkyries, SEX's, dx Gazelles, Star Cros, Z/ESP Comets, Wizards and Pro Rhynos. I can do things with my Comets that no other mid range has ever been able to do, but I really wonder if I am doing myself any favors right now. I want to take out the valk, but it delivers a really nice "quick" corkscrew overhand and sweeping hyzers that nothing else can do. The biggest surprise has been the gazelles. I am loving them, they really have made me wonder how minimalist I should go. What am I missing by not throwing dx rocs again? Will it ever be able to do what the Comet can do? Should I dump the valkyrie and just add teebirds?

at the same time, if you work with discs that are a little too overstable when brand new to be ideal, it's more that you are "working toward a sweet spot" as they age vs. "working away from a sweet spot" with discs that are perfect out of the box. what you find with say a 2 year old roc vs. a meteor is that a 2 year old roc will perform all kinds of touch/finesse shots but will still behave better into the wind than a brand new meteor.

I want to learn more, I know it's two steps back first. How minimalist should I go considering I throw many different ways? I Throw sidearm and backhand equally. I have pretty clean forehand technique, I can throw baseline/understable plastic, I just prefer the reliability of the SEX's and Firebirds. I am currently not happy with my old backhand technique and I have been reworking it, I am working on my snap, grip and thumb placement. I have debated calling Blake on one of his phone nights, but I reread the articles instead, I imagine it's got to be getting pretty old restating hundreds of times what he has already written down. I throw Tomahawks and Thumbers as well. I am learning flick rollers and would like to learn backhand rollers. Suggestions?

 

[Blake_T1]

My Voodoos start out slightly overstable. I drive with putters a little less in general since dropping my Wizard/Warlock because I don't think the Voodoo is quite as long in general (seems slower). The thing is, whether throwing or putting, none of the other voodoos I've had seem to glide quite like my organics.

I find the voodoos to be one of the more overstable putters on the market, similar stability to a challenger but with a faster drop rate. you can throw them nearly as far as wizards (within 90%) but they need more height. Due to the rim design you can do some whacky anhyzer/nose tweaks that will add a lot of glide. with that disc in general it's more about learning how to make it catch air pockets if you want to make it glide. the thinner the flight plate feels, the glidier you'll probably find them to be.

How minimalist should I go considering I throw many different ways? I Throw sidearm and backhand equally.

how much do you feel you can learn by paring down? play a round with 3 discs and see how your scores stack up. if your scores fall off by more than 2 strokes for every 9 holes of play, you have some work to do in terms of shot development. it's only when you are proficient in many shots that you really see which shots are just low percentage/difficult to execute.

 

[discspeed]

My Voodoos start out slightly overstable. I drive with putters a little less in general since dropping my Wizard/Warlock because I don't think the Voodoo is quite as long in general (seems slower). The thing is, whether throwing or putting, none of the other voodoos I've had seem to glide quite like my organics.

I find the voodoos to be one of the more overstable putters on the market, similar stability to a challenger but with a faster drop rate. you can throw them nearly as far as wizards (within 90%) but they need more height. Due to the rim design you can do some whacky anhyzer/nose tweaks that will add a lot of glide. with that disc in general it's more about learning how to make it catch air pockets if you want to make it glide. the thinner the flight plate feels, the glidier you'll probably find them to be.

Besides a short stint with the Warlock the Challenger was the putter I used for the longest before my switch to the Voodoo. I found that the Challengers that were as stiff as my Voodoos dropped a little more, but the soft Challengers I putted with the most dropped less (old softs that were stiff softs). What the Challenger definitely did for me was fade/stall earlier than my Voodoos. I liked the same thing about both--the round feel in my hand and the relatively low profile. Voodoos seem to drive and approach much better for me and that was the other thing I didn't like with the Challenger. Of all the putters I've used it seemed to glide the least and get the least distance. I could throw them as hard as I could and never >300.

 

[thecoyotekitchen1]

play a round with 3 discs and see how your scores stack up.

So what would be the ideal 3 disc set in your opinion? Specific Discs.

 

[Blake_T1]

The last month I have been throwing 11x firebirds, Star Valkyries, SEX's, dx Gazelles, Star Cros, Z/ESP Comets, Wizards and Pro Rhynos.

based upon this...
greatest versatility will probably come from:
choose 1: gazelle or eagle x
choose 1: cro or comet
wizard

Besides a short stint with the Warlock the Challenger was the putter I used for the longest before my switch to the Voodoo. I found that the Challengers that were as stiff as my Voodoos dropped a little more, but the soft Challengers I putted with the most dropped less (old softs that were stiff softs). What the Challenger definitely did for me was fade/stall earlier than my Voodoos. I liked the same thing about both--the round feel in my hand and the relatively low profile. Voodoos seem to drive and approach much better for me and that was the other thing I didn't like with the Challenger. Of all the putters I've used it seemed to glide the least and get the least distance. I could throw them as hard as I could and never >300.

one thing you have to do is say when you are talking about behavior when thrown nose up vs. nose down or flat.

 

[discspeed]

Besides a short stint with the Warlock the Challenger was the putter I used for the longest before my switch to the Voodoo. I found that the Challengers that were as stiff as my Voodoos dropped a little more, but the soft Challengers I putted with the most dropped less (old softs that were stiff softs). What the Challenger definitely did for me was fade/stall earlier than my Voodoos. I liked the same thing about both--the round feel in my hand and the relatively low profile. Voodoos seem to drive and approach much better for me and that was the other thing I didn't like with the Challenger. Of all the putters I've used it seemed to glide the least and get the least distance. I could throw them as hard as I could and never >300.

one thing you have to do is say when you are talking about behavior when thrown nose up vs. nose down or flat.

Its really kind of hard for me to tell exactly how much nose up I'm getting. I think I putt pretty flat...from my perspective. I suspect my putt is very, very slightly nose up, but it looks flat. I'll have to get JimW to get some vid to upload and then we'll see exactly. I don't make a lot of adjustment in headwinds, so I know the nose up isn't dramatic, just enough so the disc floats perfectly straight and doesn't start to fade at all or at least until it hits chains.

 

[JimW]

It's definitely not significant nose up, it looks pretty flat to me. A little slowdown on the video will probably help show it more.

 

[Blake_T1]

Its really kind of hard for me to tell exactly how much nose up I'm getting. I think I putt pretty flat...from my perspective. I suspect my putt is very, very slightly nose up, but it looks flat. I'll have to get JimW to get some vid to upload and then we'll see exactly. I don't make a lot of adjustment in headwinds, so I know the nose up isn't dramatic, just enough so the disc floats perfectly straight and doesn't start to fade at all or at least until it hits chains.

i mostly meant behavior during drives, approaches, and putts.

certain putters have very different characteristics with subtle changes in nose angle.

you've used the term floaty with a few discs that i would never consider floaty unless they were thrown nose up and probably with anhyzer as well heh.

 

[discspeed]

Its really kind of hard for me to tell exactly how much nose up I'm getting. I think I putt pretty flat...from my perspective. I suspect my putt is very, very slightly nose up, but it looks flat. I'll have to get JimW to get some vid to upload and then we'll see exactly. I don't make a lot of adjustment in headwinds, so I know the nose up isn't dramatic, just enough so the disc floats perfectly straight and doesn't start to fade at all or at least until it hits chains.

i mostly meant behavior during drives, approaches, and putts.

certain putters have very different characteristics with subtle changes in nose angle.

you've used the term floaty with a few discs that i would never consider floaty unless they were thrown nose up and probably with anhyzer as well heh.

I think the confusion is based on a couple of things. I think I've only talked about Gateway putters in terms of floaty-ness.
1. Gateway plastics make the putter. My Organic Voodoos do float well when I throw them flat compared to most putters on the market (not compared to lids/lid like putters). I've thrown Wizards that are a bit floaty (mostly the softer ones) and others that dropped like absolute bricks. Any gateway putter mold is completely different in some of their plastic blends.

2. I'm not that conscious of my own form when using them I guess. I've been playing a while and I have always been the most analytical of anyone I play with, so no one has ever made many comments about my form to me other than very vague ones. I know the result of my throws, but not always the methods by which I'm getting results. I don't throw putters with nose down, I know that, but I don't throw them with significant nose up either. I certainly am not throwing them with anhyzer unless I want that shot. I have also been throwing my Voodoos for a year and really know how to work them. They seem to float well when I throw them. I would like to be more conscious so that I could help teach others better. Like I said I will try and get some video so it will not be so mysterious and irksome to you Blake. :lol:

 

[JHBlader86]

Its really kind of hard for me to tell exactly how much nose up I'm getting. I think I putt pretty flat...from my perspective. I suspect my putt is very, very slightly nose up, but it looks flat. I'll have to get JimW to get some vid to upload and then we'll see exactly. I don't make a lot of adjustment in headwinds, so I know the nose up isn't dramatic, just enough so the disc floats perfectly straight and doesn't start to fade at all or at least until it hits chains.

i mostly meant behavior during drives, approaches, and putts.

certain putters have very different characteristics with subtle changes in nose angle.

you've used the term floaty with a few discs that i would never consider floaty unless they were thrown nose up and probably with anhyzer as well heh.

I think the confusion is based on a couple of things. I think I've only talked about Gateway putters in terms of floaty-ness.
1. Gateway plastics make the putter. My Organic Voodoos do float well when I throw them flat compared to most putters on the market (not compared to lids/lid like putters). I've thrown Wizards that are a bit floaty (mostly the softer ones) and others that dropped like absolute bricks. Any gateway putter mold is completely different in some of their plastic blends.

It would be interesting to see an article written by McCormack on how the plastic does affect his putters, and how they might be affected in DX or Pro D. I might send him a Facebook message asking him how his plastic affects the discs.

 

[Blake_T1]

Like I said I will try and get some video so it will not be so mysterious and irksome to you Blake.

it's not really irksome, i just don't know wtf you are talking about with some of it heh