joecoin
* Ace Member *
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You know, I believe your palm is facing up when you finish, but it sure doesn't look like it in the video. What am I not understanding?
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Need help overstable discs for Sidearm / flick
- Thread starter OrpikSmash
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You know, I believe your palm is facing up when you finish, but it sure doesn't look like it in the video. What am I not understanding?
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The very end of my finish is a little deceiving looking because my wrist snapped through so hard and is bent, but the palm side of the forearm is still facing the sky, meaning I had to have snapped the wrist with the palm up even though the palm is actually down at the very end. It's just the arcing of a whip. So really it's the palm side of the forearm that should remain to the sky.
I feel the term (keeping your palm to the sky) is more of a concentration tool more than a mechanical one. It also varies with different grips. I believe sidewinder is using a power grip (pads of the fingers on the rim) which tends to have you palm facing more perpendicular to the horizon vs a grip which has the pads of your fingers more on the flight plate (palm facing more skyward.) The key is to keep your palm facing the same direction when the disc rotates from your wrist being open and when it closes, forcing the disc to eject. Most OAT is caused by your wrist rolling over at this moment (the hit.) Concentrating on keeping your palm facing the sky helps you physically keep your wrist, and therefore your palm, in the same plane throughout the hit.
From the golfers I know, it seems like everyone who started DG with a backhand has no flick. But, those who started with a flick, eventually switch to backhand and gain a mastery of both.
If I could pull a Sonny Bono (and turn back time), I would have played my first decade of DG with only a flick.
Yup, that's the way it's been for me. My first two years was strictly FH. Now, I'm about 50/50 on the tee (BH/FH) and use whichever throw is more natural given the shot.
I've seen most BH'ers struggle far longer with a FH than the other way around.
thedrew300
Eagle Member
My progression with FH discs for max distance went beast->SL->Wraith->Destroyer->Boss, but I didn't have a baseball background. Now I throw Bosses for distance FH and Flicks for anything 325 and below. I would work on getting your form down before moving on to faster and faster discs though.
Nasty Nate
Double Eagle Member
Not sure if this has been covered but to Sidewinder, what grip are you using for FH? This is one thing I can't quite figure out as I have used a couple different grips and I'm not entirely comfortable with any. My sidearm is not very good and I've been trying to learn.
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I've been going back and forth between the split(Avery) power and stack power grip. That vid was a split power 2 finger with both finger pads on the rim, I think that gives the most power and was just natural way to grip the first time I ever held disc. It feels similar to a fastball grip to me.
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OrpikSmash
Newbie
I use power grip with middle finger straight tight on rim pointer tucked up at 90 degree angle tight on rim, thumb on flight plate and ring stacked on pinky against rim for stability before release. Something about when I need to put a disc over 300 feet I am making them go right and never catch a fade back left. Seems like I am almost spinning and throwing the disc to hard. For example I could throw it the 300-350 feet need but it would be to far right of pin. Getting some new throwers this week see what happens with the overstable and flick/forehand discs people have suggested with some of the under stable to.
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That is the split power grip(Avery style) you are using. You can't really put too much spin on the disc, unless you are trying to spin it instead of throwing it. More spin will keep the disc from turning over, it's the speed that turns the disc over(or off plane/axis torque). It's harder to get spin on FH than BH because it's a shorter motion and why most players prefer more overstable discs for FH.
OrpikSmash
Newbie
I must of explained it wrong then because I Just watched the Avery Jenkins fore hand grip on youtube and it is the power grip. Not the split power
OrpikSmash
Newbie
^ ^ ^This just summed up my problem pretty well.It seems like I can only get them accurately to 300 and when I put them past 300 I am attempting to put more spin. Going to work on speed more.
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We are talking about the same grip, just slightly different names by people. Dave D refers to Avery's power grip as the split power grip.
http://www.innovadiscs.com/home/daves-tips/daves-grip-tips.html
OrpikSmash
Newbie
Thank you for clearing that up.
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This ^ is true. When I was saying finish palm up that is for hyzer. When I throw flat my palm and forearm finish perpendicular to the ground or sky, as the arm/disc is whipped on that plane. Although some of this gets fuzzy because of perception while throwing and body position and G forces. What I perceive as being palm/forearm up is really relative to the shoulder plane or the axis of rotation. When my spine is tilted my perception of up is tilted. It's like being in the Gravitron thing and when you start spinning around you feel like the machine starts going vertical, but it doesn't.
OrpikSmash
Newbie
Starting to see this now gona do a lot of form work this week.
OrpikSmash, working with slightly slower discs should help you out as well. What some have said about using overstable discs is true in that they can be (and usually are) a hindrance to your development by masking form flaws. You should be able to hit 300' pretty quickly with good form using fairway-class drivers, but not firebird-class FDs. These will also be more accurate as well.
Speed is a lot easier to obtain with a FH motion but adding additional spin will help the disc remain aloft longer and therefore gain you distance. The trick is to balance the speed/spin ratio for performance. Working with slower discs will help you develop that ratio a little quicker. Throwing faster won't necessarily gain you any distance or accuracy.
Also, make sure that you have a complete follow-through otherwise, you will be robbing yourself of potential distance and the possibility of incurring injury.
Speed is a lot easier to obtain with a FH motion but adding additional spin will help the disc remain aloft longer and therefore gain you distance. The trick is to balance the speed/spin ratio for performance. Working with slower discs will help you develop that ratio a little quicker. Throwing faster won't necessarily gain you any distance or accuracy.
Also, make sure that you have a complete follow-through otherwise, you will be robbing yourself of potential distance and the possibility of incurring injury.
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