Par Talk

[lyleoross]

A note, Big Jerm, TDTM, hole 11, final round, casually discussing a 100 foot putt and his confidence in the shot.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Calling all holes par negative 13 and a half does not follow the definition. Therefore, that's a good way to do it?

Or, did you mean we should change the definition to "Par is what the designer says it is."? That would be a defensible position to take.

Or is this simply another plea to let you keep calling a lot of pedestrian scores eagles and birdies?

I have an idea - How about we give the designer some guidelines on how to set par and then stop the endless bitching and sniping about the results when he follows them?

 

[araytx]

I have an idea - How about we give the designer some guidelines on how to set par and then stop the endless bitching and sniping about the results when he follows them?

You mean like these??? that go back maybe 10 or 15 years to my knowledge, maybe more? Not sure it's worked thus far, because there will always be newer players who don't know the history, yet think they have a new idea.

https://www.pdga.com/files/par_guidelines_may_2017.pdf

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

You mean like these???

I guess I should have used the sarcasm punctuation in my post.

 

[Steve West]

I guess I should have used the sarcasm punctuation in my post.

I was trying to think of a case where there was whining after the guidelines were followed.

 

[lyleoross]

I was trying to think of a case where there was whining after the guidelines were followed.

Whining, the drool that binds us, links us together, gives life meaning.

It's funny how sometimes sarcasm seems just like whining.

 

[Steve West]

2019 Texas State Disc Golf Championships Presented by Discraft Spring Valley Golf & Disc Gold.

In 2018, even-par rounds on the Spring Valley Disc Golf Course were rated 990 and 990.

This year, they added 124 feet, slapped "Gold" on the course name and the even-par rounds were rated 990, 990, and 997.

The par of 63 was two too low for FPO, just right for Ams, and three too high for Open.

Perhaps next year the Gold course will use Gold par.

 

[Steve West]

Some numbers from Dynamic Discs Presents: The Vintage Open. Not a lot of data here, but it might be helpful.

 

[Hyzflip10]

On the radio pregame show this morning, the announcers were talking about hole 15 at Augusta, a par 5 that was the easiest hole on the course. It averaged 4.5 strokes for yesterdays round. The announcers referred to it as an easy par 5 or a tough par 4. They actually referred to it as a par 4.5, or a tweener, and suggested that the PGA is embracing those kind of holes. It seems that this is an issue in regular golf also.

 

[lyleoross]

On the radio pregame show this morning, the announcers were talking about hole 15 at Augusta, a par 5 that was the easiest hole on the course. It averaged 4.5 strokes for yesterdays round. The announcers referred to it as an easy par 5 or a tough par 4. They actually referred to it as a par 4.5, or a tweener, and suggested that the PGA is embracing those kind of holes. It seems that this is an issue in regular golf also.

I'm guessing there is a frequency difference in under-parred holes, just based on overall scores.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The interesting thing here is the confusion in the tweener definition. For ball golf it's holes that average around 3.5 or 4.5. For disc golf course designers, a tweener is a hole that produces greater than 70% of one score with lower scoring spread for a skill level. But many players believe a DG tweener is more like golf where scores average 3.5 or 4.5.

 

[Hyzflip10]

I'm guessing there is a frequency difference in under-parred holes, just based on overall scores.

The course played much different yesterday as the humidity took away some of the course's teeth. The course usually relies on fast greens to make the greens more difficult, but players were able to play much more aggressively yesterday since the greens were softer than normal.

 

[Hyzflip10]

The interesting thing here is the confusion in the tweener definition. For ball golf it's holes that average around 3.5 or 4.5. For disc golf course designers, a tweener is a hole that produces greater than 70% of one score with lower scoring spread for a skill level. But many players believe a DG tweener is more like golf where scores average 3.5 or 4.5.

The difference may be a function of the quality of player also. In theory the players in the masters are the cream of the crop, so score relative to par should be an accurate reflection of how difficult the hole is. In PDGA tournies, the mean player rating may or may not be 1000, so score relative to par may or may not be an accurate reflection of how difficult a hole is. It seems to me that it is the same concept, but the scale may slide depending on the quality of players.

 

[Steve West]

DGPT - Jonesboro Open/Disc Side of Heaven

We're getting closer to getting appropriate pars.

 

[DavidSauls]

The interesting thing here is the confusion in the tweener definition. For ball golf it's holes that average around 3.5 or 4.5. For disc golf course designers, a tweener is a hole that produces greater than 70% of one score with lower scoring spread for a skill level. But many players believe a DG tweener is more like golf where scores average 3.5 or 4.5.

I've always thought of these as Tweener par (x.5) and Tweener distance (which is usually where the 70%+ results come in---too far to reach, too easy to approach. Except those 70%+ holes we call "birdie holes" instead of "tweeners", of course.

 

[Steve West]

Camden 2 at the Rumble.

With these pars, the players will all feel so good they shouldn't be allowed to operate heavy machinery.

 

[lyleoross]

Camden 2 at the Rumble.

With these pars, the players will all feel so good they shouldn't be allowed to operate heavy machinery.

It feels like someone just went all out, par for this course is par + 1.

 

[Steve West]

Camden 2 pars were really good or FPO.

Perhaps #12 should be par 3, but it's close to being a par 4.

Now back to MPO: For the record, every hole par is consistent with setting par based on how a 905-rated player would play the course. That's great for popular daily par, as it's right in the thick part of distribution of players by rating. But, you'd think when you have some of the best players in the world coming to town, it just might be worth the extra effort to re-think whether those pars should be used for the Open competition.

 

[Steve West]

It feels like someone just went all out, par for this course is par + 1.

Actually, from the video, I learned the course was designed specifically for high-level FPO events. So, the pars are great - for that purpose.

(Of course, this makes it impossible for any TD to set a different par for MPO because as everyone should know by now, the quantum par wave function collapses at the moment the designer conceives of a par for the hole and no amount of energy or time can ever change it {something ... something} so we need to build more tee pads.)

 

[teemkey]

Actually, from the video, I learned the course was designed specifically for high-level FPO events. So, the pars are great - for that purpose.

(Of course, this makes it impossible for any TD to set a different par for MPO because as everyone should know by now, the quantum par wave function collapses at the moment the designer conceives of a par for the hole and no amount of energy or time can ever change it {something ... something} so we need to build more tee pads.)

That's because of the Houck boson.