Pro Tour Live Coverage

[Alobar]

One problem they can fix instantly at no cost is to explain to the camera person/director/producer (who's ever in charge) that we do not want to watch the thrower watch their throw. We want to watch the throw/flight of disc.

I don't care what the player is doing after they throw.

I saw that too many times this weekend.

From JV on Reddit:

I totally get that. But I honestly get sick of seeing the back of people's shirts. I like to see their faces once and a while. If we had the option of cutting it in very quickly like they do in post production, I 100% would do that. But with live, and such a small crew, it makes it virtually impossible as you say.
I believe that most people would like to see the shape of the shots as well. And I try to pick holes that are usually just a big hyzer or something simple. Rarely would I do it for a wooded shot where so much can happen.



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[SD86]

According to what JonnyV said on the Smashboxx podcast last week, the Roku app is just the start. They're going to be developing one for AppleTV and presumably for other streaming consoles like Xbox, Playstation, and I would hope Android/Chromecast so there's no need to cast one's browser. So I expect that the DGN thing will stick around and I would note that the naming of it suggests that Steve may envision it might eventually include non-DGPT live content.

Is DGN also owned by Dodge? I'm guessing if it's not, he's still a part of it. Seems like the overall business plan is to use DGPT to provide an initial "product" that can be shown/sold on the DGN platform/network. Then perhaps in the future other shows would be broadcast/sold from the DGN network onto the other major media outlets, etc.

It's not going to matter if Dodge keeps up what he's doing... nobody is going to be watching. IMHO it's only a matter of time before tournaments within the DGPT umbrella, the sponsors buying ads, and the players begin complaining about the poor production that's going on and hasn't gotten better. I suspect those people were instrumental in Jomez/CCDG coming to the SFO.

And if Dodge monetizes this, will the players begin demanding a 'piece of the action'? Or maybe stop playing in DGPT tournaments without their cut? Will they feel like Dodge is profiting off them, at their expense, without them being justly compensated? Just wonderin'....

And who has an AppleTV? Just wonderin'.....

Smashboxx - What happened? You've been around a long time, why all of a sudden you can't do quality control before you spend hours rendering/uploading to YouTube? Audio levels, strange player footage speeds, etc. Is it a DGPT curse? Seriously...yah..I get it you don't owe anyone an explanation for providing free content, but it would be interesting to know wth is going on.

This. Smashboxx has always had good productions and good production values. I'm stunned at what was put out there with those Jonesboro Smashcutts, no matter the reasons for the problems. C'mon, guys, your reputation is too good to let it be hurt by that...

 

[JC17393]

And if Dodge monetizes this, will the players begin demanding a 'piece of the action'? Or maybe stop playing in DGPT tournaments without their cut? Will they feel like Dodge is profiting off them, at their expense, without them being justly compensated? Just wonderin'....

What does "justly compensated" mean? The five figures worth of added cash that they're playing for isn't compensation enough?

If Dodge is successful in monetizing the live streams and/or Disc Golf Network, what reason do we have to think that a fair amount of that money won't filter down into the purse? That's only been Dodge's stated goal since long before the DGPT began...to make a disc golf tour that can financially support full time players. Without sizeable purses, these players won't stay on the road.

 

[Consult20]

Honestly, I don't see why? It seems a lot of cost and effort for minimal return. You can set up pay-to-watch from any website and most TVs will run a web browser.

I wonder if part of Steve's burgeoning cost structure is the desire to explore multiple formats and to purchase lots of equipment?

In business lingo, that I vaguely remember, there are IT leaders, fast followers, slow followers, and get alongers. The best options are considered to be fast or slow followers, in terms of cost. And leaders are considered very risky. Steve feels a lot like an IT leader when he should be a slow follower.

This is disc golf, who is he going to follow? These are the Wild West days of disc golf media coverage and he's trying to blaze his own trail. I realize a lot of the comments here are meant to be constructive criticism, but in the end he's got to make his own decisions and live with them. I wouldn't be surprised if he monitors these threads and takes into consideration some of the constructive criticism and suggestions. At least I hope he does.

 

[blake833]

full disclosure: I haven't read a post in like 50 pages or so, but this thread seems to be lively so I wanted to play!

I watched part of the debacle of the very first stream, and I caught some of the Jonesboro Open this past weekend, and from that perspective, it was like night and day. The camera work was better, the commentary improved (could still take some polishing but at least it's not at the "I could do better than this" levels anymore), the graphics were nice. I'm not saying perfect, the commercials were still loud, there were plenty of stream interruptions, but overall, headed in the right direction. I didn't mind watching on the dgpt.tv website or whatever.

I don't know if this is still a Steve Dodge Flame Thread, but ya know, I can see it coming together maybe even by the end of this season. But definitely in the next two or three.

 

[Keller]

I think the pool of actual interested DG viewers is far too small for Steve Dodge to ever make a good return on his investment. DG is a grass roots rebel type of game, it will be decades (if ever) before it grows big enough to warrant what Steve is trying to do with his in house coverage.

Jomez is the best, and they just hit 100,000 subscribers. Congratulations! But in the past-time/sport/hobby viewing youtube world, it's pretty minuscule. We have a long way to go, even crap guitar lesson channels have 600,000 subscribers! So how does Steve think he is going to improve those numbers by isolating himself from the small number of active viewers that have expressed what they want in coverage?

No, I don't think Steve takes in criticism, no, he's a man with a vision and mission and damn all those who get in his way! If he truly was looking out for the games best interest, he would have pooled the best in the game instead of creating a rift that is doing far more damage right now than good for any future viewers or commercial interests.

Sure, grow the sport, bring the new tours and excitement, but don't bite the hand of those that helped create that video interest. Don't insult your possible hardcore viewers and stop acting like you know what's best for the game.

People vote with their pocketbooks and eyes. I'm boycotting DGPT and putting my support elsewhere. Life is too short for his frustrations and grandiosity.

Peace, out!

 

[Jenga54]

I think the pool of actual interested DG viewers is far too small for Steve Dodge to ever make a good return on his investment. DG is a grass roots rebel type of game, it will be decades (if ever) before it grows big enough to warrant what Steve is trying to do with his in house coverage.

Jomez is the best, and they just hit 100,000 subscribers. Congratulations! But in the past-time/sport/hobby viewing youtube world, it's pretty minuscule. We have a long way to go, even crap guitar lesson channels have 600,000 subscribers! So how does Steve think he is going to improve those numbers by isolating himself from the small number of active viewers that have expressed what they want in coverage?

No, I don't think Steve takes in criticism, no, he's a man with a vision and mission and damn all those who get in his way! If he truly was looking out for the games best interest, he would have pooled the best in the game instead of creating a rift that is doing far more damage right now than good for any future viewers or commercial interests.

Sure, grow the sport, bring the new tours and excitement, but don't bite the hand of those that helped create that video interest. Don't insult your possible hardcore viewers and stop acting like you know what's best for the game.

People vote with their pocketbooks and eyes. I'm boycotting DGPT and putting my support elsewhere. Life is too short for his frustrations and grandiosity.

Peace, out!

Ooo nice a boycott

That'll show him, with your clearly defined demands and large scale organized movement against free, voluntary entertainment.

A boycott is not the same thing as 'making decisions as an adult on how to use my free time'

But if you're really serious about it, maybe a hunger strike would be more effective? Let us know how it's going!

 

[VictorB]

And if Dodge monetizes this, will the players begin demanding a 'piece of the action'? Or maybe stop playing in DGPT tournaments without their cut? Will they feel like Dodge is profiting off them, at their expense, without them being justly compensated? Just wonderin'....

And who has an AppleTV? Just wonderin'.....

The players are already seeing increased prize pools for DGPT events.

I don't have appleTV, but since I turned off satellite service about 6 years ago, I've got Amazon FireTV as well as Xbox1 that I use for streaming services. Works really nicely.

 

[DiscFifty]

From JV on Reddit:

I totally get that. But I honestly get sick of seeing the back of people's shirts. I like to see their faces once and a while.

In the future I would hope he errors on the side of "we" not "I".

 

[ru4por]

I think the pool of actual interested DG viewers is far too small for Steve Dodge to ever make a good return on his investment. DG is a grass roots rebel type of game, it will be decades (if ever) before it grows big enough to warrant what Steve is trying to do with his in house coverage.

Jomez is the best, and they just hit 100,000 subscribers. Congratulations! But in the past-time/sport/hobby viewing youtube world, it's pretty minuscule. We have a long way to go, even crap guitar lesson channels have 600,000 subscribers! So how does Steve think he is going to improve those numbers by isolating himself from the small number of active viewers that have expressed what they want in coverage?

No, I don't think Steve takes in criticism, no, he's a man with a vision and mission and damn all those who get in his way! If he truly was looking out for the games best interest, he would have pooled the best in the game instead of creating a rift that is doing far more damage right now than good for any future viewers or commercial interests.

Sure, grow the sport, bring the new tours and excitement, but don't bite the hand of those that helped create that video interest. Don't insult your possible hardcore viewers and stop acting like you know what's best for the game.

People vote with their pocketbooks and eyes. I'm boycotting DGPT and putting my support elsewhere. Life is too short for his frustrations and grandiosity.

Peace, out!

Lol.....boycotting? For the very reason you state above, the concept of boycotting is really pretty laughable. Intentionally withholding something you love, from yourself, to have zero impact on someone, who has no benefit in your interest to begin with? The guy is trying to make a living off the game you purport to support. He has done more for the pro side of the game than anyone in the last handful of years....at least. Not trying to change you mind, but bemoaning the change to something you took advantage of for free seems kind of pointless.

I am a big hockey fan. Growing up in Detroit, Saturday nights in my family revolved around large family dinners watching the black and white, rabbit ear broadcasts of Hockey Night in Canada. Can you imagine my outrage when American broadcast stations dare begin showing Red Wing games? All those attempts as fancy color TV, new camera angles, use of ex players for color commentary....OH MY GOD...THEY EVEN PUT A GLOWING STREAK BEHIND THE PUCK for better viewing for hockey noobs. Yes, I thought the product had taken a step back. Those new stations struggled with the old school fans, but growth is sometimes a struggle. The old school fans push back against change. I get it. Maybe your boycott will allow you to play some more golf, join a club, clean up a course, put a new course in, TD a couple tournaments and give back to the game in a far more constructive manner than and click on YouTube.

 

[ru4por]

In the future I would hope he errors on the side of "we" not "I".

We? Are you investing in DGPT?

 

[SD86]

The players are already seeing increased prize pools for DGPT events.

I don't have appleTV, but since I turned off satellite service about 6 years ago, I've got Amazon FireTV as well as Xbox1 that I use for streaming services. Works really nicely.

This. And Youtube provides all the content I really need, as well.

 

[ShopTom.com]

It seemed the morning Female camera work was fine, but then for Mixed in the afternoon they have "beginner can't follow a disc flight" problems. So are they changing crews, flipping the catch/throw camera operators, or does the extra distance make things significantly harder to film?

 

[jvphobic]

MPO is tougher because the variety of the places they can put the disc. But I am sure some of the blame occasionally falls on me because I may lose the disc and pick the incorrect shot.

 

[spinachd]

I wonder how many fewer people will end up watching the Jonesboro open this year vs last year.

If any casual DG'r does happen into this year's coverage I wonder how long they will watch it.

The truth is that live DG coverage is almost always unwatchable except to rabid players with a lot of time on their hands. Even then we are rarely going to view it if we can't watch recorded versions and FF to the next shot. The one aspect that is compelling about it is being able to see nervousness and tension in the players when approaching big putts (for instance, you could see how uncomfortable Kevin Jones was when lining up in the final round, or you could see the Shusterick had no confidence for the last four years long before the disc left his hand).

My kids all play DG and have been watching it with me for years. They know all the players and some of the sponsor switching drama, etc. If I've got some live coverage up they will not sit down with me, but if I have some good post produced stuff like Jomez, CCDG, or others that are popping up, they plop down next to me on the couch.

I have no idea about the economics of live vs post-produced videos but I know that the latter is better for the game. I thought last year was a golden moment for the game generally, with the DGPT in full swing and high-quality footage being produced on a schedule one could anticipate.

Of course, no progress can be made without vision and risk taking. Kudos to all who try. But my advice is try the live coverage in various ways but keep allowing Jomez and the like to produce high-quality post-produced stuff as well. My gut is that depriving us of that coverage will not make us more likely to tune into the live event. It will simply be a lost audience.

 

[jvphobic]

If I've never said it before, I like this place better than Reddit.

This weekend I found out the limitations of the software I use. Doing the recording on the same PC that all the switching is done on caused glitches in the recordings. It is why you only will see 2 FPO post rounds. Sometimes it was dropped frames, sometimes it speed up the footage to keep up with the 60fps settings.

The MPO footage that was released was clearly a mistake on my part. I didn't have a good copy and just made the choice to release that over nothing at all. Because we currently don't have an instant way to watch the archived live broadcast. The FPO is slightly better.

During the 2nd day I dropped some cash for some equipment to help with this in the future and take some of the strain off the PC. This is why there was no Replay as well, the software couldn't deal with the load I put it under and was choppy as well.

 

[lyleoross]

If I've never said it before, I like this place better than Reddit.

This weekend I found out the limitations of the software I use. Doing the recording on the same PC that all the switching is done on caused glitches in the recordings. It is why you only will see 2 FPO post rounds. Sometimes it was dropped frames, sometimes it speed up the footage to keep up with the 60fps settings.

The MPO footage that was released was clearly a mistake on my part. I didn't have a good copy and just made the choice to release that over nothing at all. Because we currently don't have an instant way to watch the archived live broadcast. The FPO is slightly better.

During the 2nd day I dropped some cash for some equipment to help with this in the future and take some of the strain off the PC. This is why there was no Replay as well, the software couldn't deal with the load I put it under and was choppy as well.

One of the many things I like about JV his owning up to things. He doesn't grovel nor does he pass off other's concerns. Mikey likey.

 

[lyleoross]

I've written this before, so I apologize. Comments concerning views and volume are misplaced. The unasked question isn't, OMG, is Steve gonna build a machine, and make millions for everyone. The question is, is there enough money to support what that group is doing? 100000 views appears to be enough, combined with other revenue, for Jomez to make a living. Perhaps not a big one but still.

It is rare that a novel product rolls out and is immediately a multi-million dollar profit maker. Or perhaps it's better to say, sans a huge corporation it's rare. So, I never look at this as an investment opportunity that's going to make me rich, rich, rich. But rather as a cost control project that makes enough and provides me with entertainment.

 

[DiscFifty]

This weekend I found out the limitations of the software I use.

Not trying to blast ya, just curious.. you're not using the same hardware/software you guys use for the DisgGolfGuy, Smashboxx, etc? All their recent videos are fine, etc.

 

[jvphobic]

Same software as always. But the additional cameras brought in over NDI (IP protocol) along with additional assets and web based graphics, combined with recording at 1080p60 and Replay. It was too much. I probably could have scales the system down to 720, but the priority for me was live.

I bought a 4 input SDI card to hardwire my system into the camera server. That should help. Plus I might offload the backup recording and see if that helps.

But really the web-based graphics are pretty processor intensive. Basically a Chrome tab for each graphic.