Pro Tour Live Coverage

[Timthenchant3r]

I think I figured out what is bothering me and maybe others about this whole thing. It seems like the live coverage is being presented as the featured product and the post-production as a bonus product. I feel it should be the opposite. I will only watch the live coverage if i happen to not be busy that day or the post production isn't out yet. I'll go back and watch tournaments from years ago often on a whim. I don't think I will ever go back and watch this tournament again even if the play was great. I'm not watching to just find out who wins, I can look up scores on UDisc, I'm watching for details, strategy and form. Live coverage doesn't capture those things nearly as well. It could be that I am wrong, and others don't watch for the same reasons I do, and this will eventually be a smash success, I have no idea. TLDR: Emphasis being placed on live at the expense of post-production.

 

[DiscFifty]

Same software as always. But the additional cameras brought in over NDI (IP protocol) along with additional assets and web based graphics, combined with recording at 1080p60 and Replay. It was too much. I probably could have scales the system down to 720, but the priority for me was live.

I bought a 4 input SDI card to hardwire my system into the camera server. That should help. Plus I might offload the backup recording and see if that helps.

But really the web-based graphics are pretty processor intensive. Basically a Chrome tab for each graphic.

Nice, thx for the breakdown. All the tech stuff is intriguing to say the least. Speaking of live...again..I really don't know who/what is responsible for everything, but the live broadcasts were pretty stable for me and were easily on par or better then what was broadcast in the past, so if that was all you behind the scenes... overall job well done, thank you for your efforts! Positive: Showing scores more often, thank you! Negative: I'd like to see the flight of the disc more often and if possible..let's see those putts without a commercial break.

While you're here.. lol.. I would love to see more back stories on pros. Little snippets on how long they have playing, perhaps lifetime stats, etc, etc. When Nate went into his impromptu story about GG, that was great.

 

[JTacoma03]

I think the pool of actual interested DG viewers is far too small for Steve Dodge to ever make a good return on his investment. DG is a grass roots rebel type of game, it will be decades (if ever) before it grows big enough to warrant what Steve is trying to do with his in house coverage.

Jomez is the best, and they just hit 100,000 subscribers. Congratulations! But in the past-time/sport/hobby viewing youtube world, it's pretty minuscule. We have a long way to go, even crap guitar lesson channels have 600,000 subscribers! So how does Steve think he is going to improve those numbers by isolating himself from the small number of active viewers that have expressed what they want in coverage?

No, I don't think Steve takes in criticism, no, he's a man with a vision and mission and damn all those who get in his way! If he truly was looking out for the games best interest, he would have pooled the best in the game instead of creating a rift that is doing far more damage right now than good for any future viewers or commercial interests.

Sure, grow the sport, bring the new tours and excitement, but don't bite the hand of those that helped create that video interest. Don't insult your possible hardcore viewers and stop acting like you know what's best for the game.

People vote with their pocketbooks and eyes. I'm boycotting DGPT and putting my support elsewhere. Life is too short for his frustrations and grandiosity.

Peace, out!

So, do what you want with your life - just addressing your channel size comments because they're hyperbolic.

100k is a good mark of influence, and I'm quite sure the average for successful guitar channels is closer to the ballpark of 350k. Considering the ubiquity of the electric guitar in music, contrasted with the niche market size of disc golf, marginalizing our influence online is sticking your head in the sand.

The players are already seeing increased prize pools for DGPT events.

There's no data to support any definitive conclusion as far as one specific indicator as the catalyst.

...which is the argument that Steve wouldn't hear in the offseason. He was convinced it was DGPT > all other factors. It's an ecosystem in a delicate balance. All things must contribute to see the results we're seeing.

 

[DiscFifty]

I'm not watching to just find out who wins, I can look up scores on UDisc, I'm watching for details, strategy and form. Live coverage doesn't capture those things nearly as well.

Sounds like you're not watching as a fan but more as a player, and for the sport/coverage to really take off we need millions more fans (non players) who just enjoy watching the competitive side of the sport. And for that, live coverage is important.

But I really do think...we're close...well...getting pretty close where the live coverage will be good enough to archive as post coverage as well. The biggest thing needed at this point is really...good commentary.. I think we've maxed out the thinking that "all players can be awesome commentators too", being "smart" is fine..but we need well spoken clarity combined with the skill to know when to let the action speak for itself. By far..... Sarah Hokum & Nate Sexton are legions ahead of anyone else. If DGPT could land those 2 as commentators full time (for mpo and fpo) , it would be a game changer and immediately change the landscape for disc golf coverage. Imop.

 

[DiscFifty]

100k is a good mark of influence, and I'm quite sure the average for successful guitar channels is closer to the ballpark of 350k. Considering the ubiquity of the electric guitar in music, contrasted with the niche market size of disc golf, marginalizing our influence online is sticking your head in the sand.

100k, 350k subs isn't that big in the grand scheme of things. Especially when you can purchase subscribers to your channel to simulate "large growth", etc, etc. I still think views per video is the better metric to gauge growth. Seems like we're stuck in the 90-150k views for the elite events, we need to get those up to 500k+ per video. I still think the PDGA should license some of the best video content from media producers, put it on their channel and use some of the membership money to promote the hell out of those videos... but not in the typical disc golf circles, promote it outside the sport, the sport has enough players at this point, especially on the am side, now we need non players, FANS to grow the sport. #growthefans

 

[JC17393]

Sounds like you're not watching as a fan but more as a player, and for the sport/coverage to really take off we need millions more fans (non players) who just enjoy watching the competitive side of the sport. And for that, live coverage is important.

But I really do think...we're close...well...getting pretty close where the live coverage will be good enough to archive as post coverage as well. The biggest thing needed at this point is really...good commentary.. I think we've maxed out the thinking that "all players can be awesome commentators too", being "smart" is fine..but we need well spoken clarity combined with the skill to know when to let the action speak for itself. By far..... Sarah Hokum & Nate Sexton are legions ahead of anyone else. If DGPT could land those 2 as commentators full time (for mpo and fpo) , it would be a game changer and immediately change the landscape for disc golf coverage. Imop.

How do you propose DGPT land two players at the top of their game for live commentary? I can't see them being available for a good long time. Additionally, it is an entirely different ball of wax to do commentary on an edited, 30-40 minute video versus a live 3-4 hour broadcast. I won't dispute that they are very good on post-produced, but I'm not convinced that that skill will translate perfectly to live.

I think Nate and Val are positioned perfectly for the live commentary given that they're not far removed from being touring players (so they're familiar with the players) but they aren't in a position where they are likely going to be playing in a lot of events because of their new business. Where I think they can both improve is by doing what they did at Waco, and that's pairing each of them with someone else. Specifically someone to handle the "host" duties and set them up to be do more analysis. That would do them both wonders. Combine that with fighting the urge to fill every down moment and I think they can both be very good.

 

[brutalbrutus]

I agree. Val and Nate are a bit too much like a husband and wife youtube music reviews team but they were both pretty good split up when Spring was there.

I wonder if someone say... like... a Jamie Thomas would be a guy who could become the host... I think he did a pretty good job on the USDGC stream last year.

Or since they've gotten back together with SB, if Terry will be brought in...

 

[Keller]

So, do what you want with your life - just addressing your channel size comments because they're hyperbolic.

100k is a good mark of influence, and I'm quite sure the average for successful guitar channels is closer to the ballpark of 350k. Considering the ubiquity of the electric guitar in music, contrasted with the niche market size of disc golf, marginalizing our influence online is sticking your head in the sand..

I wasn't marginalizing anything, just pointing out a fact. We are a small niche corner.
And just because I have unsubscribed to DGPT doesn't mean I'm sticking my head in the sand, there are many other ways to support the game besides watching live coverage.

So, Jamie, what is your honest opinion on all of these DGPT follies this year? Do you think it is helping to get us wider exposure, growing interest in the sport and widening revenue? What is your real opinion? Or does your media role keep you from speaking your true mind?

I'm not being snarky by the way. Would your career take a turn for the worst if you went the wrong way in your opinion? I would get that. By the way, Love your podcasts and listen to them every week!

 

[jvphobic]

I think people are blowing the DGPT failures up too big. Yes they have had major issues. But this isn't hurting the long-term growth in the slightest. This is a 40 day period in a 20+ year media life.

If the DGPT can recover with or without our post production media crews in the future, everyone will come back I have no doubts about that. And if we keep growing this will be remembered very similar to the 2011 Chains movie. Basically forgotten.

 

[DiscFifty]

How do you propose DGPT land two players at the top of their game for live commentary?

I'm thinking more of a long term relationship. Get a contract, sign them up now. Have them commentate when they can, and as they progress to playing less often, they may find themselves getting as much money commentating as they would if they were playing. Nate Sexton has already said something along those lines about working with Jomez. Regardless who they are, DGPT needs a stable commentating team that can grow the brand and also get a good following with the fans.

I think Nate and Val are positioned perfectly for the live commentary given that they're not far removed from being touring players (so they're familiar with the players) but they aren't in a position where they are likely going to be playing in a lot of events because of their new business.

With the utmost respect to both of those world class players, I humbly disagree 100%. There are plenty of players on site they could get for analysis, etc. Speaking publicly is not easy, it's even harder on camera. I get that Doss wants to be the man, hell..he's probably doing it for free, but there are better solutions available now. Terry Miller, Dixon Jowers, Jamie Thomas, any combination of those 3 would be great imop. But if they plan on keeping Val & Nate long term, at the least..have someone on site with the courage to whisper to them "you're talking too much again".

 

[teemkey]

I think people are blowing the DGPT failures up too big. Yes they have had major issues. But this isn't hurting the long-term growth in the slightest. This is a 40 day period in a 20+ year media life.

If the DGPT can recover with or without our post production media crews in the future, everyone will come back I have no doubts about that. And if we keep growing this will be remembered very similar to the 2011 Chains movie. Basically forgotten.

I think the issue is that we've gone through this process before. Smashboxx was pretty rocky initially, but you worked at it, and the fans stuck with you. You kept improving, and, like it or not, set new standards that aren't being met by DGPT broadcasts this year.

And underlying the fanbase's dissatisfaction is that SD caused this decrease in quality to make more money (paraphrasing his own words).

Yes, it's understood that if DGPT is losing money, something has to be done. However, delivering an inferior product is, at best, a questionable solution from every viewpoint.

 

[lyleoross]

Again, folks are caught up in the do they bring value argument. Who cares? The numbers the internets produce suggest between $100 and $200 per video for Jomez. That means over a weekend they make $600 to $1000. That's just the views. Give them 20 events, that's $20000 for views. That's before Patreon or ad dollars from the companies or TDs. On Patreon, they get $2000 per video. Apparently a bunch of dumb saps value their work. That's 6x20x2000. Hmmm, I'll take that.

The metrics folks are looking at are wrong. It doesn't matter if TDTM values Jomez, their fans do.

 

[slowplastic]

Jomez is the best, and they just hit 100,000 subscribers. Congratulations!

The channel that has marble olympics has almost 400,000.

But everyone likes marble olympics.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYJdpnjuSWVOLgGT9fIzL0g

 

[DiscFifty]

Now THIS is good post coverage of the JBO: MPO Chase Card - R2F9 - Lizotte, McBeth, Dickerson, Presnell

These guys need to be utilized more, their quality has grown rapidly. wow...

 

[DiscFifty]

On Patreon, they get $2000 per video.

They put out over 20 videos the past month, so that's 40k in just one month. :clap: Do they get the Patreon rev for and and every video they put out? Plus they also charge to cover events. I know the VPO paid them to cover the event. hmm... They were paid to cover that event, they also got add rev + patreon account rev. I'll save that discussion for another thread. lol..

 

[JC17393]

I'm thinking more of a long term relationship. Get a contract, sign them up now. Have them commentate when they can, and as they progress to playing less often, they may find themselves getting as much money commentating as they would if they were playing. Nate Sexton has already said something along those lines about working with Jomez. Regardless who they are, DGPT needs a stable commentating team that can grow the brand and also get a good following with the fans.

And how do they grow the brand with a "stable" commentating team that can't be counted on to comment every time because they're playing in the tournament? That's the opposite of stable, is it not? And again, I'll point out that commenting on edited video for 30-40 minutes may not be a skill that translates to talking for 3-4 hours at a time during a live broadcast, so until they try it, I don't think it would be wise to commit to anyone who is still an active player.

I think everyone is better served by one of two tacks when it comes to live commentary...keep trying new people out until someone clicks with it or go with the people who are available and willing to do it and let them work toward improving their craft (and take the lumps in the meantime). This is new territory for everyone involved. There will be no one who is going to jump in and be great at it right from the start.

With the utmost respect to both of those world class players, I humbly disagree 100%. There are plenty of players on site they could get for analysis, etc. Speaking publicly is not easy, it's even harder on camera. I get that Doss wants to be the man, hell..he's probably doing it for free, but there are better solutions available now. Terry Miller, Dixon Jowers, Jamie Thomas, any combination of those 3 would be great imop. But if they plan on keeping Val & Nate long term, at the least..have someone on site with the courage to whisper to them "you're talking too much again".

I like how you cleverly edit out the part of my post where I say pretty much just what you are (particularly the bolded) so you can say it like you're countering my statement. They're available, they're willing, and the raw skill is there (especially with Nate). I think their biggest issue is trying to do more than they're capable of. They can't be both host and analyst. Pair each of them with a host like Terry or Dixon or Jamie and they've got a better chance to shine. Let them do what they do best and avoid what they don't do well.

 

[DiscFifty]

I like how you cleverly edit out the part of my post where I say pretty much just what you are (particularly the bolded) so you can say it like you're countering my statement.

Not intended btw. Everything you said makes sense. But as fans we are also critiquing a product that is available right now. And I'm by far not alone in my opinion that Nate & Val should not be the team to grow with. Val more than Nate, but I don't see Nate moving forward without Val, that's his wife and his business partner. Probably is a delicate issue behind the scenes.

btw..Sarah Hokom will be 40 in 3 years. If she had to make a choice between playing and commentating, especially if the money was fairly equal, I'm guessing she would give it some serious thought. I just listened to her vocal delivery again, man...she has one of the clearest spoken voices I have ever heard. If she could deliver that live, that would be impressive.

 

[JC17393]

Not intended btw. Everything you said makes sense. But as fans we are also critiquing a product that is available right now. And I'm by far not alone in my opinion that Nate & Val should not be the team to grow with. Val more than Nate, but I don't see Nate moving forward without Val, that's his wife and his business partner. Probably is a delicate issue behind the scenes.

btw..Sarah Hokom will be 40 in 3 years. If she had to make a choice between playing and commentating, especially if the money was fairly equal, I'm guessing she would give it some serious thought. I just listened to her vocal delivery again, man...she has one of the clearest spoken voices I have ever heard. If she could deliver that live, that would be impressive.

I think we're a long way from the money being fairly equal between commentating and playing. Certainly far enough away that no player is going to commit to doing commentating in lieu of playing, which is what would be required to do live. And I can't see, absent an injury, Sarah slowing down anytime soon. Age is meaningless, especially on the FPO side where reaching 40 doesn't really present much of an opportunity to move to Masters and still win sizeable purses. If Elaine King can remain competitive into her 50s, I think Sarah's still got a long playing career in front of her.

As for Nate and Val, I'm not advocating that they remain a team in the broadcast booth. It doesn't really work. The set up they used for Waco is much more conducive to both of them succeeding...separately and in an analyst only role. I never want to hear them say "we're back" after an ad break or "welcome (back) to tournament X". That job should be done by someone else. If it is, I think they can excel.

 

[DiscFifty]

I think we're a long way from the money being fairly equal between commentating and playing.

Did you see my post regarding avg $ for Sarah for the year so far, around 566.00 per event. You don't think she could get a contract to be paid that much or more, per event? She's also publicly talked about how hard is for her to make ends meet on the road, taking each event one by one, coming up with the money to pay for the event, especially when it comes to signing up early to guarantee a spot, etc. I would love to know if she would be interested in something like this. Granted, it still wouldn't be enough to live on she would still need additional income, but she's already addressing that now I would assume.

But the position I'm envisioning would be more that just commentating, they could also be the face/voice for DGPT doing media commercials for upcoming events, player interviews, back stories, etc, etc. those Dodge "Pro Tour Talk" videos were to say the least, a bit rough.

 

[DiscFifty]

As for Nate and Val, I'm not advocating that they remain a team in the broadcast booth. It doesn't really work. The set up they used for Waco is much more conducive to both of them succeeding...separately and in an analyst only role. I never want to hear them say "we're back" after an ad break or "welcome (back) to tournament X". That job should be done by someone else. If it is, I think they can excel.

Agreed for the most part, I do think Nate can be dialed in, but I just don't think Val is the person for the female counterpoint. I do like the male/female combo in the booth btw. But the obvious smiles/romantic eyes to each other during the live broadcast was different to say the least. lol.. Out of all the female commentators the past year or so, are you saying Val is the best one for the job or are you saying if it had to be Val, we can work with it?