So I was watching a long distance competition video and noticed that a lot of the competitors were turning back sooner with their backside and taking their last three steps either mostly turned or turned all the way and basically running backwards into their brace. So, I'm curious- I've heard people say not to turn back too soon as it's not good. Does this mean it's not good for control? Or, for distance? I say this because I've noticed that if I turn back sooner rather than later I sacrifice some control for more distance and it's not even close. What are people's thoughts?
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Reachback and turning away timing in the X Step.
- Thread starter RoDeO
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seedlings
* Ace Member *
The reachback means turning the shoulders. Shoulders only. Barely hips. Not toes. Full reachback will be momentary, coinciding with the lead foot plant, give or take a few microseconds,
The turn of shoulders only creates tension between the hips and shoulders. If hips and shoulders turn back, then hips and shoulders come around at the same time (roughly), instead of the powerful torsion mechanism of tension between shoulders and hips.
Watch starting 9:05
The turn of shoulders only creates tension between the hips and shoulders. If hips and shoulders turn back, then hips and shoulders come around at the same time (roughly), instead of the powerful torsion mechanism of tension between shoulders and hips.
Watch starting 9:05
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seedlings
* Ace Member *
Also At least watch GG there at the beginning of this fantastic video. Watch how the tension between hips and shoulders stays from reachback through the release. Hips stay in front of shoulders. Finally notice he keeps eyes on target until the moment of full reach back of the shoulders.
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So how then is Seppo throwing darn near 600 feet with his hips and shoulders all turned backwards for three steps prior to his throw? In regular tournament play he doesn't do this but for distance he does. And he's not the only one, a lot of top distance throwers also do it. Here is Seppo-
https://youtu.be/dA2HzT1lGDc
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Not a big fan of turning all the way back like Scott teaches. It´s not very efficent and almost impossible to recover to a good throwing position.
Jangle Chains
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You answered your own question. However what you seem to be missing is: The pros you see in these distance comps are so dialed in with there form that they could start in just about about any body configuration and end up with their bodies exactly where they need to be at brace and then release. Same reason many can do a 360. That takes years of practice and the right combination of innate athletic skill. Just like a professional dancer can start from anywhere on stage and do any combination of moves, flips, etc. and land on the mark the size of a dime on stage--a first year dance student, not so much.
Just like a writer: better to learn proper form, and then you can break the rules.
Keep practicing proper form.
seedlings
* Ace Member *
Yes, Seppo has his shoulders Torsioned against his hips:
You didn't mention anything about the Gurthie clip in my 2nd post that emphasizes this technique even more than Seppo.
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seedlings
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azplaya25
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You found a good set of videos to demonstrate the proper reachback of shoulders torqued against hips. Here's Simon and Kevin:
This is why the doorframe drill is so good. Take that disc out of their hands and replace it with a doorframe and they are doing the drill.
oldmandiscer
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For big distance they are throwing way left and high with big anhyzers so keep that in mind where the disc is actually leaving.
I understand that. What I'm saying is that for throwing distance guys like Seppo are turning backwards very soon. I've heard a lot of people say not to turn back to soon. Is it because they are saying you lose control? Because it certainly isn't about distance or the inability to create torque of hips against shoulders, obviously.You found a good set of videos to demonstrate the proper reachback of shoulders torqued against hips. Here's Simon and Kevin:
This is the important point. They're reaching back "earlier" - but they're also releasing for a very different shot.
Additionally - Seppo is nowhere near what you're doing in your video. He's slowly winding himself up, and only hitting his back turned really just before popping back into the throw. You (rOdEo) take full steps backward entirely in at least one of you videos and hang out there.
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seedlings
* Ace Member *
Not sure what you're asking because all these screenshots are from the same distance event. The video you never addressed was Garret Gurthie driving on a tournament hole, so that was distance and control.
Seppo's last three steps he is almost mostly, if not entirely turned. Is he not?
No. Definitely not. I just re-watched and went frame by frame. Definitely not. The throw at 1:11 is the closest, and still no - definitely not for three steps.
Yeah, but in his distance comps he does turn back sooner and more. He doesn't turn as much as others.
Im asking why people say not to turn back too soon. It seems to me it can't be about distance because many top throwers are turning back sooner than they normally do when going for distance.
I'm watching his shoulder angle and for almost his last 3 steps his shoulders are turned backwards.
There is a big difference being turned back and being backwards. They are all still clearly going to an imagenary target. If they were to go neutral from that position theyd be sideways. When you are backwards your neutral position is your back facing the target.
Seppo looks like he is more backwards than sideways heading into his last step in his distance throw.
He is throwing to high left, not straight.
