Reachback and turning away timing in the X Step.

[RoDeO]

He is throwing to high left, not straight.

More straight than left. Would you agree that he turns more rearward for distance vs. for a controlled fairway shot?

 

[RandyC]

More straight than left. Would you agree that he turns more rearward for distance vs. for a controlled fairway shot?

Sure, but could say that he is loading more not really "turning".

 

[RoDeO]

Sure, but could say that he is loading more not really "turning".

So, he is loading by turning his body more.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I'm watching his shoulder angle and for almost his last 3 steps his shoulders are turned backwards.

Much like what the others are saying to me in the thread about my form - his shoulders aren't really turning back until he's getting the drive foot down for the last time. And he isn't taking three steps, watch his feet more closely - he's preparing to load up with the shoulders as his feet are in the air before the drive foot comes down to drive into the throw.

To be clear: I turn back way less and later than you. Seppo turns back less than me and later. And you turn back way more and way earlier than me.

 

[seedlings]

>Eyes on target during the x-step until just before the lead leg plants
>Shoulders rotate back during the x-step, before lead leg plant (shoulders turn significantly more than hips)
>Feet are basically perpendicular to target
>Lead hip toward target
>Lead leg plant starts hip turn
>Shoulders follow hip turn, faster than hips
>Shoulders catch up to hips at the release/hit
>Shoulders unwind past hips after release

Or, just watch the first few mins of this to see captions during Gurthie's throw:
https://youtu.be/Q5xfv9jPqZs

 

[seedlings]

Rodeo at left foot during x-step

Seppo left foot during x-step

 

[seedlings]

Rodeo lead plant

Seppo lead plant

 

[twistedraven]

Also Seppo is aiming to the left for a panning anny for max distance, so his target is somewhat at the screen.

 

[seedlings]

Above, when Seppo lead foot plants, his shoulders are turned against hips to create tension.
Above, when Rodeo lead foot plants, his shoulders are parallel to hips with no tension.

 

[RowingBoats]

Above, when Seppo lead foot plants, his shoulders are turned against hips to create tension.
Above, when Rodeo lead foot plants, his shoulders are parallel to hips with no tension.

Yep. This is 100% because Rodeo is convinced that spinning is the paradigm from which the backhand derives power. There is a blatantly obvious wrongness that has fueled all of...this ****.

*Spinning beginning with the rear hip.

 

[seedlings]

Watch from 7 min mark to learn about reachback. Excellent lesson Simon. Also 10:15 to hear about shoulders.

 

[RoDeO]

Not sure where this turned into a bash on RoDeO form but that wasn't why I posted. Unbelievable!

The thing I was bringing up is that I keep hearing you shouldn't turn back to soon and yet these top throwers are doing just that so it's obviously misinformation out there on where power is tapped from. I've noticed this too as I throw that on short holes I don't really turn back much and then on long holes, or for distance I turn back more and sooner. I think there is a lot of leverage to tap into there amongst other things. All I know is Im getting almost an extra 100 feet by turning back more. It's like I can feel the potential greater that can be tapped into.

 

[RoDeO]

Rodeo lead plant

Seppo lead plant

Yeah, pretty similar.

 

[seedlings]

Yeah, pretty similar.

Seppo's shoulders are roughly 90degrees to his hips. This means he has significant torsion to exert into the disc. Your shoulders are roughly parallel to your hips so that spring is sprung already, and unable to add to your throw.

 

[RoDeO]

Seppo's shoulders are roughly 90degrees to his hips. This means he has significant torsion to exert into the disc. Your shoulders are roughly parallel to your hips so that spring is sprung already, and unable to add to your throw.

Well, certainly angles and the moment you freeze a frame can either be telling or not. I do get shoulder and Hip separation. So it isn't a case of the "spring is sprung already". I may not have the same degree of separation as Seppo but I do get a fair amount. In time perhaps. I turn back more to get more torsional spring in my throw. I think thats why most distance throwers turn hack more for distance also.

 

[GripEnemy]

So I was watching a long distance competition video and noticed that a lot of the competitors were turning back sooner with their backside and taking their last three steps either mostly turned or turned all the way and basically running backwards into their brace. So, I'm curious- I've heard people say not to turn back too soon as it's not good. Does this mean it's not good for control? Or, for distance? I say this because I've noticed that if I turn back sooner rather than later I sacrifice some control for more distance and it's not even close. What are people's thoughts?

When I first called you Brodeo on this site, I thought you were my age or younger. Come on, man sir.

So how then is Seppo throwing darn near 600 feet with his hips and shoulders all turned backwards for three steps prior to his throw? In regular tournament play he doesn't do this but for distance he does. And he's not the only one, a lot of top distance throwers also do it. Here is Seppo-

https://youtu.be/dA2HzT1lGDc

Distance. Competition.

...What I'm saying is that for throwing distance guys like Seppo are turning backwards very soon. I've heard a lot of people say not to turn back to soon. Is it because they are saying you lose control? Because it certainly isn't about distance or the inability to create torque of hips against shoulders, obviously.

What do you think? Yes you lose control. Even if Mr. Size Queen gets his small baskets you still need to be accurate. What does a 600' drive get you without precision?

Fun fact? less than 1% of the disc golf population can throw that far.

Seppo's last three steps he is almost mostly, if not entirely turned. Is he not?

Yes. For uncontrolled distance.

Yeah, but in his distance comps he does turn back sooner and more. He doesn't turn as much as others.

Im asking why people say not to turn back too soon. It seems to me it can't be about distance because many top throwers are turning back sooner than they normally do when going for distance.

See above. Distance, not precision [scoring] focused.

I'm watching his shoulder angle and for almost his last 3 steps his shoulders are turned backwards.

For distance.

Seppo looks like he is more backwards than sideways heading into his last step in his distance throw.

For distance.

More straight than left. Would you agree that he turns more rearward for distance vs. for a controlled fairway shot?

No to bolded. Yes, to the rest, ...for distance.

So, he is loading by turning his body more.

Yes...for uncontrolled distance. See a trend?

Not sure where this turned into a bash on RoDeO form but that wasn't why I posted. Unbelievable!

The thing I was bringing up is that I keep hearing you shouldn't turn back to soon and yet these top throwers are doing just that so it's obviously misinformation out there on where power is tapped from. I've noticed this too as I throw that on short holes I don't really turn back much and then on long holes, or for distance I turn back more and sooner. I think there is a lot of leverage to tap into there amongst other things. All I know is Im getting almost an extra 100 feet by turning back more. It's like I can feel the potential greater that can be tapped into.

B1: Because you don't listen.

B2: For distance.

B3: You proved my our point(s).

Well, certainly angles and the moment you freeze a frame can either be telling or not. I do get shoulder and Hip separation. So it isn't a case of the "spring is sprung already". I may not have the same degree of separation as Seppo but I do get a fair amount. In time perhaps. I turn back more to get more torsional spring in my throw. I think thats why most distance throwers turn hack more for distance also.

Just lol:wall:

 

[RoDeO]

When I first called you Brodeo on this site, I thought you were my age or younger. Come on, man sir.



Distance. Competition.



What do you think? Yes you lose control. Even if Mr. Size Queen gets his small baskets you still need to be accurate. What does a 600' drive get you without precision?

Fun fact? less than 1% of the disc golf population can throw that far.



Yes. For uncontrolled distance.



See above. Distance, not precision [scoring] focused.



For distance.



For distance.



No to bolded. Yes, to the rest, ...for distance.



Yes...for uncontrolled distance. See a trend?



B1: Because you don't listen.

B2: For distance.

B3: You proved my our point(s).



Just lol:wall:

That's what I've been saying all along. Turn sooner coupled with turning rearward more= More distance but loss of control.

 

[GripEnemy]

That's what I've been saying all along. Turn sooner coupled with turning rearward more= More distance but loss of control.

Cool.

Learn good form first.

Stop being dumb.

Look at your title someone spent real money on to make fun of you (not me, I'd take credit if I did).


I can crush a drive to toot my own horn. You know what I don't do very well? Putt. Do you know what makes you score well? Putting. EDIT: Or throwing your drives accurately enough that you don't need to be a great putter.

Why do you want to throw as far as possible but not be able to control it? What does that do for you? This isn't a dick swinging contest...I'll repeat this isn't a dick swinging contest. I lose to great putters that I can out drive constantly. Know why? They're better at scoring [golf] than I am. Do you know how to apply this distance properly with crosswinds and headwinds and tailwinds? Through trees? Good luck.

I actually hope you can somehow reach 600' one day, but always putt worse than I do.

 

[RoDeO]

Cool.

Learn good form first.

Stop being dumb.

Look at your title someone spent real money on to make fun of you (not me, I'd take credit if I did).


I can crush a drive to toot my own horn. You know what I don't do very well? Putt. Do you know what makes you score well? Putting. EDIT: Or throwing your drives accurately enough that you don't need to be a great putter.

Why do you want to throw as far as possible but not be able to control it? What does that do for you? This isn't a dick swinging contest...I'll repeat this isn't a dick swinging contest. I lose to great putters that I can out drive constantly. Know why? They're better at scoring [golf] than I am. Do you know how to apply this distance properly with crosswinds and headwinds and tailwinds? Through trees? Good luck.

I actually hope you can somehow reach 600' one day, but always putt worse than I do.

The answer with throwing distance/ hard is to be as best as possible with the control. Then, it makes it easier to control 90% power shots and still have it go very far.

 

[GripEnemy]

Cute. Great thread. Great posting everywhere on this site, thank you so much for your contributions:|

Why is it so hard to understand learning control and technique first followed by distance? Going from 180' to 300' or so makes sense as an early goal but beyond that you (every beginner) lose me. I know you just checked out TWs 500' thread, did he just instantly hope to throw that far? No, it took him years after learning technique.


People are spending their free time to try to help you, yet you **** all over them. I'm the angry voice of reason trying to tell you to listen to those people. Why is that so difficult for you?

Do you really think you deciphering YouTube videos in your own mind is above people that have dedicated hundreds or thousands of hours to this game? Do you think you can suddenly become Seppo or Simon or Paul through interpretive dance? Come on, man. Even a genuine genius would need guidance with a physical activity (NOT calling you one).