Rocking the Hips

[sidewinder22]

Ohno i probably got the hip motion wrong.. this video makes rocking hip motion confusing.
I really have been practising leading with my butt pushing/rocking my hip forward from the rear foot and turning back at the same time leaving the disc behind when striding forward. Like in the Hershyzer walldrill.

Feldberg seems to push the hips forward after the stride already full planted.
Should i do both these things or did i totally missunderstood that video? :\

I think you misunderstood the video. It's hard to demonstrate the motion without actually being the throw. The rear foot slides forward and the front leg pushes the front hip upward toward the sky.

 

[drk_evns]

Ohno i probably got the hip motion wrong.. this video makes rocking hip motion confusing.
I really have been practising leading with my butt pushing/rocking my hip forward from the rear foot and turning back at the same time leaving the disc behind when striding forward. Like in the Hershyzer walldrill.

Feldberg seems to push the hips forward after the stride already full planted.
Should i do both these things or did i totally missunderstood that video? :\

Yes. Turning back should happen as the front foot moves towards the plant

Begin your backswing ONLY once you have a meaningful amount of weight leverage on your "x-stepping" foot. I tend to begin my backswing the moment my x-step touches the ground, but my weight is often right over top of it when that happens. You have to be in front of your back foot before it can push you forward into the brace and the front foot. I find if I wait until this moment, I'm ready to rip it the second my backswing peaks.

The hip rocking forward happens closer to the end of the shift, when you're ready to move into the power pocket.

 

[RFrance]

Shift from behind and Rocking the hips (2:15 mark) drills.

 

[drk_evns]

Shift from behind and Rocking the hips (2:15 mark) drills.

Solid gold all the way through.

 

[zendragon]

So I watched Feldberg's rocking hips video and tried it. I can do it okay, but, my right hip is double jointed, so when I git to that point where my hips are up and open to transition power, my hip wants to move out of joint, which is a bit painful and causes me to back off some. I had done some similar drills/form work around 5-6 years ago and added some good distance to my throws, was getting 350 regularly with maybe a couple hitting close to 400', but, it was also causing my hips to hurt.

So, any tips on an alternate way that I can get that transfer down better without hurting myself in the process?

 

[flatflip]

So I watched Feldberg's rocking hips video and tried it. I can do it okay, but, my right hip is double jointed, so when I git to that point where my hips are up and open to transition power, my hip wants to move out of joint, which is a bit painful and causes me to back off some. I had done some similar drills/form work around 5-6 years ago and added some good distance to my throws, was getting 350 regularly with maybe a couple hitting close to 400', but, it was also causing my hips to hurt.

So, any tips on an alternate way that I can get that transfer down better without hurting myself in the process?

Without knowing exactly how your hip is put together, we're kind of shooting in the dark. I can tell you that if your joint is constantly shifting, it's going to cause problems later even if you can tap into some power now. I've got an eccentrically-shaped femur head -- my ortho says it was likely a functional adaptation to the lateral stresses that I put on it in youth soccer. This adaptation probably gave me some plus power in when I was younger but I keep my ortho busy now because I have pretty well developed arthritis in that joint already in my 40s.

I'd say listen to your body and work on stabilization. Single-legged romanian deadlifts, horse stance training, and most anything you can do to activate your gluteus medius will help, along with the drills. The drills are a safe way to explore these movements in a really slowed-down way. Knowing your limitations and knowing the appropriate positions to apply power safely will go a long way towards your body tapping into its native intelligence.

 

[drk_evns]

This was pretty insane and also illustrates the point.

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxJdMgO7rrY520QKsiiPR_6BssEXDjZrY9

 

[Mocheez]

Shift from behind and Rocking the hips (2:15 mark) drills.

It looked like the guy doing the drill at 3:15 was spinning instead of shifting. The guy after that looked good though.

 

[Brychanus]

While SW22 tirelessly tries to undork my legs, this general question is driving me nuts, and I want to test my understanding of the correct hip rock using slightly different terms than I've seen put in one place after reading/watching everything I could. Please let me know what's wrong with this explanation. This is mostly for my academic satisfaction.

When we backswing, the hips cock up and back (toward rear of body) initially with internal hip rotation due to a triple extension ("3X": calf, quads and glutes) of the drive leg at the same time. The backswing puts us into the setup for Hershyzer/buttwipe/Hogan power move.

As our weight drifts forward, the continued leverage from the 3x in the ball and socket drive hip starts to drive the pelvis targetward and externally rotate that drive hip joint.

As we weight shift, the weight is received by the plant foot, with weight initially into the instep/ball of the foot (and rolling to outstep and ball of foot). As soon as the weight is shifted, 3x of the plant leg gets ground leverage. Because of our posture and forward momentum, the 3x clears the plant hip up and away from target, accelerating the swing through toward the target. This means that in every ball golf example, the "hip clearing motion" is also a 3x of the leg closest to the target.

So to summarize, it's basically two fluid 3X-es from drive leg received by plant leg in a fluid motion, and the correct posture maximizes the trajectory/lag/acceleration of the disc.

Am I close?

 

[sidewinder22]

While SW22 tirelessly tries to undork my legs, this general question is driving me nuts, and I want to test my understanding of the correct hip rock using slightly different terms than I've seen put in one place after reading/watching everything I could. Please let me know what's wrong with this explanation. This is mostly for my academic satisfaction.

When we backswing, the hips cock up and back (toward rear of body) initially with internal hip rotation due to a triple extension ("3X": calf, quads and glutes) of the drive leg at the same time. The backswing puts us into the setup for Hershyzer/buttwipe/Hogan power move.

As our weight drifts forward, the continued leverage from the 3x in the ball and socket drive hip starts to drive the pelvis targetward and externally rotate that drive hip joint.

As we weight shift, the weight is received by the plant foot, with weight initially into the instep/ball of the foot (and rolling to outstep and ball of foot). As soon as the weight is shifted, 3x of the plant leg gets ground leverage. Because of our posture and forward momentum, the 3x clears the plant hip up and away from target, accelerating the swing through toward the target. This means that in every ball golf example, the "hip clearing motion" is also a 3x of the leg closest to the target.

So to summarize, it's basically two fluid 3X-es from drive leg received by plant leg in a fluid motion, and the correct posture (and sequence) maximizes the trajectory/lag/acceleration of the disc.

Am I close?

I'm having a hard time reading this. I think I agree with the summary with the sequence added, but it's also a bit more complex.

You do not mention triple flexion, the rear leg makes like a pogo stick action. I'm not sure 3x is the best coaching cue either, leads to early extension and jumping and too much vertical motion and lack of rotation and horizontal motion.

The Hershyzer/Buttwipe/Hogan Power Move are part of the backswing and hip hinge, not setup by the backswing.

 

[Brychanus]

I'm having a hard time reading this.

Sorry, it is hard for me to find the best way to summarize the mechanics, but that is what I'm after. This post was triggered mostly because I kept getting confused about exactly what language I should use to describe the plant leg action and its relationship to the hips since different sources use slightly different language or emphasize different aspects of the mechanics, and it's easy to trick the (novice) eye. Then I became interested in how to improve how to think/talk about the hips overall since so many people have trouble with it. Your drills/patience are getting me to break through, but I also like having a "textbook" handle on it if I can.

I think I agree with the summary with the sequence added, but it's also a bit more complex.

You do not mention triple flexion, the rear leg makes like a pogo stick action. I'm not sure 3x is the best coaching cue either, leads to early extension and jumping and too much vertical motion and lack of rotation and horizontal motion.

If I understand, that sounds like the same action you're teaching me in the Battering Ram - in BR and standstill backswing is 3x flexion/pogo load, then 3x extension/pogo decompress into the plant.

I appreciate the comment that it's not a good coaching cue. I know that sometimes when I write stuff in my form check, you know that the best response is just to point me to the next drill to treat the cause of my problem and get my body to figure it out since I'm a headcase

The Hershyzer/Buttwipe/Hogan Power Move are part of the backswing and hip hinge, not setup by the backswing.

Nice, thanks, I understand!

 

[SocraDeez]

The 3x terminology is a bit confusing. I wouldn't focus on it so much. After some quick online research, it seems like "triple extension" is a popular term in the weight-lifting and sprinting communities and refers to the extension of the (1) ankle (2) knee (3) hip. (Is that the same as your 3x with calf, quads and glutes?). Basically, these positions:

There's lots of healthy debate* in those communities about how important/ unimportant 3x is. To my eyes, it looks like more of an effect than a cause of anything. For example, the weight-lifter displays that 3x position at the end of the lift. The sprinter displays that 3x position at the end of their ground push. Most of the power from the ground came sometime before in a different body position.

*
https://simplifaster.com/articles/myth-of-triple-extension/

https://www.building-better-athlete.com/blog/the-myth-of-triple-extension

https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/sprinting-biomechanics-and-the-myth-of-triple-extension/

https://waxmansgym.com/pulling-tech...-triple-extension-vs-the-flat-footedcatapult/

I re-read the entire Rocking the Hips thread and revisited some older clips you've shared on the Hogan power move. Conceptually, I realized that I don't understand whether the plant leg should be:

A. Doing a Triple Extension & posting up just like the move from drive leg/Hershyzer or
B. Squatting more into & leading the swing while "gas pedaling" mostly with the plant foot/calf.

Both of them added acceleration, but I think it's "A" since that intuitively should clear the lead hip up and back away from target to lead the swing

I don't think it's an either A or B thing as you've presented it. Into the ground and away from the ground are intrinsically linked. One cannot be without the other. It's almost mystical.

So it's both/and if anything, but I'm not sure what you mean by "gas pedaling" with the plant foot. My lead/plant foot ankle does the opposite of what the weight-lifters and sprinters are demonstrating in the 3x position. Is this the same kind of 3x here? Or is different?

Because of our posture and forward momentum, the 3x clears the plant hip up and away from target, accelerating the swing through toward the target. This means that in every ball golf example, the "hip clearing motion" is also a 3x of the leg closest to the target.

I disagree that 3x is the thing that causes the lead hip to clear. Try this: standing up, drop your weight into one foot by picking your other one up off the ground. The hip above the foot that is now supporting all your weight cleared. When I perform this exercise and intentionally disallow the hip to clear, I fall over. What meaning lurks here? Who knows.

 

[Brychanus]

The 3x terminology is a bit confusing. I wouldn't focus on it so much. After some quick online research, it seems like "triple extension" is a popular term in the weight-lifting and sprinting communities and refers to the extension of the (1) ankle (2) knee (3) hip. (Is that the same as your 3x with calf, quads and glutes?). Basically, these positions:

Yes, that's exactly the position I had in mind!

There's lots of healthy debate* in those communities about how important/ unimportant 3x is. To my eyes, it looks like more of an effect than a cause of anything. For example, the weight-lifter displays that 3x position at the end of the lift. The sprinter displays that 3x position at the end of their ground push. Most of the power from the ground came sometime before in a different body position.

*
https://simplifaster.com/articles/myth-of-triple-extension/

https://www.building-better-athlete.com/blog/the-myth-of-triple-extension

https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/sprinting-biomechanics-and-the-myth-of-triple-extension/

https://waxmansgym.com/pulling-tech...-triple-extension-vs-the-flat-footedcatapult/

These are excellent, thank you for sharing them. Part of my problem is that I'm looking for the kind of explanation that would pass a peer-reviewed consensus among specialized biomechanics experts, which doesn't exist in DG. And sometimes I have a hard time parsing the language without any background in that. It's helpful to see that among coaches in the trenches there are healthy debates about controversies and I like absorbing them.

I don't think it's an either A or B thing as you've presented it. Into the ground and away from the ground are intrinsically linked. One cannot be without the other. It's almost mystical.

You've caught me - the "almost mystical" part frustrates me in every other part of life, so it has metastasized to disc golf.

So it's both/and if anything, but I'm not sure what you mean by "gas pedaling" with the plant foot. My lead/plant foot ankle does the opposite of what the weight-lifters and sprinters are demonstrating in the 3x position. Is this the same kind of 3x here? Or is different?

I think what I mean is that the plant foot has to get leverage on the ground, which I now think means *edit: "plantar flexion", not "calf extension". So that's contra the 3X idea already, if I understand. But I was also confused about what/when the rest of the plant leg does to transfer force and get that "hip clearing" action in the front hip (more on that at the end here).

I disagree that 3x is the thing that causes the lead hip to clear. Try this: standing up, drop your weight into one foot by picking your other one up off the ground. The hip above the foot that is now supporting all your weight cleared. When I perform this exercise and intentionally disallow the hip to clear, I fall over. What meaning lurks here? Who knows.

This was interesting, thanks for the exercise. When I do what you describe standing completely upright and lifting my left foot, it seems like the right hip begins to clear with the weight shift to the plant foot, and the plant leg can continue the clearing action/pull the belt buckle toward a target to my right, driving the hip up/away from target by leveraging the ground (I'm now reluctant to say that's a "3X" action based on your argument here).

I'm happy to say that SW22 is finally getting through to me with the Battering Ram drill and standstills. The leg/hip action feels much more obvious now even though I can't quite figure out how I would describe it - I just have to do it to know what it is. Literally overnight, I'm starting to know how to get my body to do it and practice it better than I know how to say it in words. I understood the connection to hammer swing X-step and how it was doing it incorrectly almost immediately, and that the right thing to do is let the expert guide me and trust that it's leading me somewhere good (it clearly is). And the words I was using before were focused on the wrong "coachable" ideas. I'm just so fascinated by all of this, all of the time.

Conversations like this are part of why I've fallen so hard for disc golf and this community, thank you for weighing in

 

[bryantlikes]

Backswing Fix

Shift from behind and Rocking the hips (2:15 mark) drills.

Starting at ~5:30 he demonstrates the correct vs incorrect backswing motions. It is very subtle but seems to be fundamental.

I'm guessing this would correlate pretty well with the backswing for disc golf?

 

[SocraDeez]

You've got the right attitude. Don't forget that the mystery makes it addicting. Here, too, in the disc golf swing, can man search for meaning.

I disagree that 3x is the thing that causes the lead hip to clear. Try this: standing up, drop your weight into one foot by picking your other one up off the ground. The hip above the foot that is now supporting all your weight cleared. When I perform this exercise and intentionally disallow the hip to clear, I fall over. What meaning lurks here? Who knows.

This was interesting, thanks for the exercise. When I do what you describe standing completely upright and lifting my left foot, it seems like the right hip begins to clear with the weight shift to the plant foot

I guess there's two ways to do this exercise actually, and we can relate it back to "Rocking the Hips." So, try the above (1) first by, from a standing position, de-weighting your back/trail foot by lifting it up kind of like a knee raise. You're front hip attached to the now-contacting-the-ground-by-itself leg will clear so that you can balance on one leg. Feel the mobility it offers/ distance the hip seems to travel. The back hip is rocked above the front hip in this position.

(2) Now, also from a standing position, de-weight the back/trail foot by dropping the knee down and letting the leg hang from the socket. Similar to how your back/ trail leg feels during its swing phase of your walking gait. The front hip of the now-weighted front foot will clear. Feel the mobility it offers/ distance the hip seems to travel. The back hip is rocked below the front hip in this position.

So in this scenario the front hip rocks above when it pushes into the ground while the back hip swings/ drops. I'm not sure when 3x as we're describing it happens in the swing, but I'd guess the hips are probably already oriented in the "rocked" position w/ the lead hip above the back hip & the lead hip is already cleared (because it has to clear if the back hip tilts/ drops).

Check out running coach Adarian Barr's interesting demonstration of hip mobility here (sorry Instagram link): https://www.instagram.com/p/CG7teRkHMpa/

 

[RFrance]

Starting at ~5:30 he demonstrates the correct vs incorrect backswing motions. It is very subtle but seems to be fundamental.

I'm guessing this would correlate pretty well with the backswing for disc golf?

A good question. In SW22's Butt Wipe Drill at 1:27 he mentions just turning but he also refers to the back swing being symmetrical with the front swing in other videos and discussions which would imply the weight shift on the back leg happens before the straightening as Dr. Kwon demonstrates as the correct way.

 

[Brychanus]

... So in this scenario the front hip rocks above when it pushes into the ground while the back hip swings/ drops. I'm not sure when 3x as we're describing it happens in the swing, but I'd guess the hips are probably already oriented in the "rocked" position w/ the lead hip above the back hip & the lead hip is already cleared (because it has to clear if the back hip tilts/ drops).

Check out running coach Adarian Barr's interesting demonstration of hip mobility here (sorry Instagram link): https://www.instagram.com/p/CG7teRkHMpa/

Nice, this is helpful and the two movements are illuminating. That sequencing about the plant leg makes more sense to me, maybe it's like "3X-lite". Ugh, I really wish I knew what to say.

I made the decision to summarize my form journey here under a YouTube mantle to help make some of the basic movements more like a progression for learning players, and almost immediately the user comments revealed tensions between 1. "3X" or other ways of talking about leg action, 2. what "squishing the bug" is and whether pros do it, and 3. (amusingly) comparisons between things like the seabas22/loopghost and similar way of learning as "old school" compared to a more "Athletic" ways of learning like Slingshot DG according to one user's opinion.

I can't please everyone, but I do think lots of us can be encouraged to get better resources on learning the hips. Maybe I'm biased (well, definitely since this is where I'm learning this stuff), but the Battering Ram suddenly made it so obvious where the power comes from in the legs/ground even if the words are tricky and getting transfer to the throw takes patience. It's also interesting that I either was doing it wrong before, or the rest of my form was so underdeveloped that I didn't get the point. Now I see that the fundamental action is lacking in a lot of instructional content/form out there.

I think I'll take a stab at an "amendment" to my lower body content as I'm starting to get a hang of it and hopefully not embarrass myself!

 

[SocraDeez]

All good things, man. You're learning a lot and progressing quickly (and producing a lot of content to help others learn and progress, too, which is commendable). Two bits of advice from me, though, whoever I am:

(1) Rocking the Hips: the fundamental lesson of this thread is pretty much: hip mobility/ range of movement/ power can be manipulated on a vertical plane. Re: Mike Austin, "They tilt!" This is non-obvious to most players and worth emphasizing over and over again.

Simple movement exercises can help demonstrate this principle. For example, twist your torso from side to side with both feet planted/ both hips on the same vertical plane. Feel the range of hip movement available. Then, (for RHBH players) twist to your left side while also allowing the opposite leg to drop/ de-weight/ hang from its socket while you do so. Similar to how your off-leg feels when it swings during the walking gait. Feel the range of movement of the left hip.

This body position – one foot/leg unit contacting the ground with its connected hip cleared all the way around the femur and up, torso stacked above and balanced, while the other foot/leg unit hangs/swings from its socket – is the most powerful body position from which we can exert force into the Earth. You can feel it. In your socks. In the living room. You can feel it in the off-leg when powerfully kicking a soccer ball.

Or, take a look at how Javier Sotomayor loads into this position with the back leg at the very last part of his run up during this world record high jump. His right leg swings, his right hip rocks below his left hip; simultaneously, he loads into the left leg w/ the left hip clearing around it to the outside and up:

The hips clear, or swivel about your femurs, because they help you better push into the ground. I do not think extension causes the hips to clear. Which brings me to the second bit of advice:

(2) I am wary of the emphasis on extension in the leg mechanics. I wouldn't focus on it so much.

Now it's very important that you keep your ankles outside your knees outside your hips throughout the throw, whether it's a standstill or the final step of the x-step. That leverage is driven from the stiffness of your leg and its extension as we'll see in a moment here.

You need more commitment into the weight shift and better leg action. Set a stance keeping your center of gravity in front of your rear foot. Keep the rear leg stiffer. When you pick the front foot up, gravity will pull you forward/down against the stiffer rear leg. You should slightly extend the rear leg to assist that momentum forward. When you plant, your front leg/knee should extend a bit against the ground to fully clear the front hip, leading the throw.

From taller x-step, once your foot lands w/ weight ahead of it/butt toward target, extend knee. It shouldn't go completely straight but you should feel it leverage you directly into the plant with your squat/buttwipe toward target.

Keep that rear (drive) leg stiffer/straighter when you land and extend it. As you backswing, this will swivel your rear hip up/away from target at first, then start hip rotation back toward the target.

You should be extending laterally off the ball/instep of your rear foot leading with your weight directly into the plant. Turn that rear foot slightly more perpendicular to target to get better leverage.

So to summarize, it's basically two fluid 3X-es from drive leg received by plant leg in a fluid motion, and the correct posture maximizes the trajectory/lag/acceleration of the disc.

Am I close?

It is this forum user's opinion that extension as you describe it at times is more of an effect than a cause of anything. I would advise not to advise players to actively extend or to actively focus on extension. Do you actively extend a spring after you compress it? What role does extension play in the disc golf swing?

Watch how Kristian Kuoksa loads into his rear leg before the weight shift. He's producing an incredible amount of force into the Earth by getting into that same load position that we saw above w/ Javier Sotamayor. His rear/ drive leg begins to resemble the 3x position after his weight has already shifted to the front side of the swing frame:

Also check out the rear leg action on tall Paul Oman from the '22 Belton Open here. He even gets his back toes up a bit right before the weight shift:

They are pretty much doing exactly what Mike Maeves tries to describe to us in "The Move":




The time you've already sunk into contributing to the disc golf swing theory community is commendable and appreciated. Relative to drive leg mechanics, I'd just focus more on pushing the spring down vs. whatever comes after. Hope this helps.

 

[Brychanus]

All good things, man. YouÂ're learning a lot and progressing quickly (and producing a lot of content to help others learn and progress, too, which is commendable). Two bits of advice from me, though, whoever I am:

Hey, thanks for this incredibly thorough/thoughtful writeup. I'd love to know more about whoever you are.

TL;DR: apparently I had a lot on my mind about this and I'm not sure I can drop saying "extends" in the anatomical sense, but I'm very open to and appreciate feedback.

This is perfect timing because I was just now finishing up two modules where I'm focused on using ground forces + leverage since I just binged everything I could find (and inevitably end up talking a lot about leg action there). I think my struggle at this moment is exactly because of issues I've had with (a) the language and (b) implementing it into my own incredibly stubborn lower body. No doubt I have a high coefficient on safety since I've injured both knees before. So this Forum is basically an opportunity for peer-review before I upload those if you can weigh in (also eyeing SW22, HUB, other usual suspects around here). Sorry this is a little long, but I want to get as close to "right" as I can on what I think is one of the more fraught topics in learning/teaching form. And with any/all due respect to them, the more "visible" groups like Slingshot and Overthrow are still not quite doing it right (the latter contacted me out of the blue yesterday). On the other hand, I know people get confused about some of the hip drills SW22 made. Even though I think that they're basically perfect drills for, many people seem to have a hell of a hard time mapping it back to their form. That's the problem/service to the community I'm really interested in.

I agree with you completely on point (1) above, though I'm slightly uncertain that there is no anatomical extension occurring in the high jump example (I think it does and must). Whether that's causative for the hip action remains, an interesting/important question for me, if only academic. For point (2), I definitely have to get a public logic/credibility check here.

In the first new planned module, I aim to clarify & withdraw the phrasing about "triple extension" for reasons we discussed here. I don't think it's right, and even if in some sense it is, it's got too much baggage/confusion and cause and effect are debatable (and maybe not even relevant for coaching). And I appreciate that you don't really get a "full" leg extension in any case in DG form (except maybe something close in the plant leg in the finish, but I still would hesitate to call that triple extension exactly due to the aforementioned reasons). The rest of the module does talk a lot about leveraging the ground/stiff pogo leg etc. But I still mention "extending" in the meaning of the anatomical sense, because that's part of what happens, even if it's only a small range of motion after the initial compression. If there is no knee extension as part of the rebound from the spring, it's like the softer/collapsing drive leg I have been battering out of my own form.

In the second planned module I'm focusing more on a collection of tricks for getting better ground leverage and learning swing lag. I do use the phrase "extends" to refer to "extending the leg against the ground" when trying to find vertical/compression/decompression force, and more toe-heel rock back-and-forth examples in different postures, with different intensities & tempos, etc.

The general problem in explaining (and learning) it for me, and as I've seen now for some others, is that the feet/legs need to get leverage from somewhere, and it's hard to talk about it without using the word "extend" to describe certain pieces of the feet/leg action in the anatomical sense. I can use my own development as an example - I seemed to lack this spring-like effect entirely, and it was kind of like my legs were just sagging under my weight, or otherwise inert. I see that happening in other players too now. In my case I think it's a combination of cagey knees & legs weaker than they should be for my mass, but I don't appear to be isolated in the struggle w/ the core mechanics. This was even though I've learned lots of other moves with my legs/hips for other activities, so there was a motor learning/mapping issue too.

Describing it like a spring/pogo alone did not help me get the leg action right. I remained baffled until SW22 shared the example of a waltz step extending/leveraging against the ground, and there minimally I can observe knee extension (it's there in kuoksa/Oman/other top form too with different initial positions & degrees of "compression" against the earth). It's often very subtle/not complete extension, but the leverage/extension against the ground like a stiff spring/pogo is required to get that hip rock moving, and you need a pretty quick rebound/spring as soon as the weight is loading into the leg. Since I had none of that going on, the only way I can think to describe it is "extend against/push against" the ground. I can also talk about good/smooth toe-heel action against the ground while in the correct posture. But with a very unintelligent body, I can still mess up part of the leg action if I don't say there's at least a bit of an "extension" phase that functions like the spring/pogo. I couldn't do the Hammer X-Step or Battering Ram properly in the X-step/walkup until I went through those stages of development & SW22's painstaking sharing of examples until one or two clicked.

I don't want to make work for you/anyone, but I realized I might benefit from posting the next 2 modules in "private" mode on YouTube and seeing if you have any comments I could use to smooth them out before I post. I feel no real rush in getting them out other than to contribute what I think is needed clarification about my "3X" comment and contributing a progressive series to the world.

Recommend we isolate this into a second follow up since I think there's interesting meat in here about individual variability & whether it's just superficial or implies important differences in mechanics: The Oman example is interesting because some shots/forms "compress"/load more/flex in certain stages, but they still have the forward/upward leveraging of the leg against the ground, which drives the hip rock. And there are cases of other top throwers with a much less pronounced knee flexion going into the x-step/standstill backswing. So I wonder a bit whether some people end up generating more force with simply different postures, or if the mechanics differ in subtle but important ways (for reasons we could discuss).

Phew! Thank you for drawing this out (I sincerely love it).

 

[Brychanus]

I went back to Tread Athletics and think I prefer how they talk about the Drift and to "Drive" off the rear leg after entering the Drift. He also mentions varying degrees of knee flexion entering the phase, and it seems to get out of the "extends"/anatomical quagmire for coaching contexts.

https://youtu.be/NHt_fvKcXJ8

The move. in the front/plant leg is also "drive-like" when conducting a baseball swing, golf swing, hockey slapshot, etc. Both legs have that pogo-like aspect when resisting collapse into the ground and rebounding to Drive in the spring/pogo action.

If that's agreeable (it may not be), the remaining Q is whether I should call what the PLANT leg does a drive, or resists/pushes/leverages ground, etc.