HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
Disc50, I am not seeing anything looking like pre-curling the wrist. Where are you getting that from?
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
Short stride
- Thread starter HyzerUniBomber
- Start date
horsethief
Par Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 159
You don't want to pre-coil your wrist, that would be bad. You want to hold your elbow in place (right pec position), and extend your arm -- which bends your wrist back. Don't pull through in a straight line from the right pec position, this will collapse your elbow positioning and you won't get any load whatsoever on your wrist!
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2014
- Messages
- 1,680
You guys are crazy.
Thanks Sidewinder for the Bottles video. I had read this before from the DGR website and could never figure it out. I think at one time someone had a video but it wasn't accessible anymore. What I did to be able to review video of it for my practice was to add a couple of drops of food coloring and remove the plastic label band. The water movement shows up real clear that way. The concept that Blake_T had was right on the nose. Now I'm starting to understand what you guys are talking about with feeling the weight of the disc. It also has me slowing way down at the start and then accelerating. Anxious to try this on the practice field now that I know the feeling better.
No. The hammer pound is pounding to open. It doesn't really matter how closed or open the wrist is before the pound. You want to use your muscles to keep your wrist (more) neutral so the disc can load tension, then when your wrist starts unloading, just work with the passive motion and hammer it.
Do some hammer pounds with a coiled wrist. I did last night, and it was 100% evident the speed I lost coiling vs. starting from neutral.
zj1002
* Ace Member *
Try doing this with elastic tubing or some sort of athletic stretch band. Attach it to a door or something that will hold up. Hold onto the tubing and extend away from the door with a straight wrist like a normal throw. Then try it with a curled wrist. You will feel the wrist and hand start to get very tight and the fingers will want to let go before you ever uncoil your hand all the way. Its much easier to maintain grip through the throw with a straight wrist.
horsethief
Par Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 159
I does matter, especially for learning. You really want to feel it bend back, and then slam open -- that's how you get a feel for it.
I think it's important to point out that Yes, you would want to do that, if you've mastered this technique, and you want to try and milk out every last bit of distance you can from it. But I would not advise trying to keep your wrist neutral at first. It's better to let it flap closed, then flap open like a broken shudder for learning. You should have no problem throwing over 400' with a flappy wrist (line drive throws, not distance lines). Once you have a feel for it, you can start experimenting with loading the wrist by trying to keep it neutral.
Thx for comments here. Fascinating reading to be honest. I really think I'm so close to getting this mentally and physically. My comment about coiling was just an observation that the people that coil too much were probably on the right track, but failed to really grasp what needs to be done.
Tell me if I'm wrong...because this is exactly how I'm understanding the "flap", "hinge", "load", "snap", etc, etc. For now let's forget when, where, this happens...but if I'm correct we're basically talking about the moment your hand/wrist cocks (coils?) and then rapidly/instantly uncocks (uncoils?) to eject the disc. When done correctly you get effortless distance. In the past I would notice this when I was forced to shoot standing still, around a tree, etc, etc, and all I could do was a short motion like this, sometimes the disc would eject out and go so far I was like..how the hell did that happen?
I've been slowing down my x-step, using the wide pull, etc, and working on this motion for a while and one thing I've immediately noticed is I can play longer with less fatigue in my arm/hands. Basically...zero fatigue, and this is after 2 rounds in a pdga tournament. Distance wise I'm not where I think I should be, but I still think this is due to nose/release issues. Buy my mid range, fairway driver game is the one that has improved the most. Those shots using this method are so smooth and easy and oh so accurate now. It's amazing how easy I can get my Leopards out to 300ft now on a nice low shot.
So for now, check out the bold type and let me know if that's the million dollar event we're talking about. lol.. Thanks!
Tell me if I'm wrong...because this is exactly how I'm understanding the "flap", "hinge", "load", "snap", etc, etc. For now let's forget when, where, this happens...but if I'm correct we're basically talking about the moment your hand/wrist cocks (coils?) and then rapidly/instantly uncocks (uncoils?) to eject the disc. When done correctly you get effortless distance. In the past I would notice this when I was forced to shoot standing still, around a tree, etc, etc, and all I could do was a short motion like this, sometimes the disc would eject out and go so far I was like..how the hell did that happen?
I've been slowing down my x-step, using the wide pull, etc, and working on this motion for a while and one thing I've immediately noticed is I can play longer with less fatigue in my arm/hands. Basically...zero fatigue, and this is after 2 rounds in a pdga tournament. Distance wise I'm not where I think I should be, but I still think this is due to nose/release issues. Buy my mid range, fairway driver game is the one that has improved the most. Those shots using this method are so smooth and easy and oh so accurate now. It's amazing how easy I can get my Leopards out to 300ft now on a nice low shot.
So for now, check out the bold type and let me know if that's the million dollar event we're talking about. lol.. Thanks!
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
IMO, you're exactly right.
Other's may have a different way of describing it - but to me, this is one of the easiest ways to start to load up the wrist and feel it.
I did the elbow-smack / hand-smack drill before this came around, but it's extremely similar.
I also suggest, moving to a 3 finger grip while you're seeking this feeling. It's just easier to feel.
Then as you lock it down and feel the load / ping ejection - I'd say you start coming in to stay neutral (straight wrist is strong grip) and move to the power grip.
Other's may have a different way of describing it - but to me, this is one of the easiest ways to start to load up the wrist and feel it.
I did the elbow-smack / hand-smack drill before this came around, but it's extremely similar.
I also suggest, moving to a 3 finger grip while you're seeking this feeling. It's just easier to feel.
Then as you lock it down and feel the load / ping ejection - I'd say you start coming in to stay neutral (straight wrist is strong grip) and move to the power grip.
I mis-stated that. I just meant that everyone has a different "most advantageous" wrist position to get loaded in.
I'm not really sure that a flapping wrist is a possibility (I think your subconscious might take over and load without you trying to), but if it were, that completely negates all the passive force created by the hammer pound. Resistance is power (think about shooting rubber bands); more to the point, resistance is power that can be used after it's created. That's why it's so "effortless" ... because it was created before any explosive motion.
D50: Bold is my specific answer, the rest is somewhat uncertain conjecturing.
Yep. My only adendum would be that it's not a moment. The wrist loads over about a foot of disc movement.
My understanding is that the Rail is taking maximum advantage of loading by having the hand moving in a different direction from the inertia of the disc, allowing maximum loading. The disc just gets "heavier and heavier" (you're coming closer and closer to maximum load) and then just explodes out.
Furthermore, my understanding is that a "full hit" is an active explosion of the wrist while it is passively unloading itself.
Last edited:
horsethief
Par Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 159
I agree that it would add more power, but if you had to put it into a percentage, it would probably be a single digit increase. Think about throwing a disc sidearm, bend your wrist back, then glide in with the weight, then pound your wrist open (in sync with the disc). The important part is feeling the weight and leveraging it in sync when it wants to go on it's own. You could load your wrist with a sidearm also, but that's not the meat and potatoes of the throw.
horsethief
Par Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 159
Correct!
Thanks everyone for the replies. Wish I could buy all you guys a drink sometime. 
What would really take this over the top as far as visual information, would be someone taking a camera and recording video or photos of this process from the top looking down, close up, so we can really see what's happening. Basically taking those awesome diagrams and replacing them with actual hands-on-disc goodness. Thanks again.
What would really take this over the top as far as visual information, would be someone taking a camera and recording video or photos of this process from the top looking down, close up, so we can really see what's happening. Basically taking those awesome diagrams and replacing them with actual hands-on-disc goodness. Thanks again.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
The hit is like quantum mechanics. It doesn't make sense, but you can tell it works. Look into that box, all you'll see is a half dead cat.
Seriously though, the easiest way to get it, is to define the spots you have to attain:
1. Hand outside of disc at right pec.
2. Index finger / thump at 4:00 on disc, 10:00-10:30 arm extension out front
That's the core track.
Now the disc is going to accelerate from 1 to 2. It has to accelerate. It can't just go as fast as it is at 1 when it's at 2.
It's not a uniform acceleration. It's exponential. So while you're standing around holding position 1 and 2, you want to keep in mind how important it is about HOW you're going to hold onto the rim and how you can accelerate the disc like that.
We've blabbed quite a bit about the collapsing, loading -> unloading - so I won't go through it again... but understanding what is going to happen / how it happens / when and where - that's a big part of the battle. If you realize you're trying to speed up the disc from the backswing into the chest, then STOP and and get that disc into the last position (2).
If you're getting to 2 and the disc is flying right and you can tell it's flying right, that's when you can start diving into "the Hit 201" and start messing with shoulder timing... but I promise that a meat and potatoes hit is effortless and accurate.
Seriously though, the easiest way to get it, is to define the spots you have to attain:
1. Hand outside of disc at right pec.
2. Index finger / thump at 4:00 on disc, 10:00-10:30 arm extension out front
That's the core track.
Now the disc is going to accelerate from 1 to 2. It has to accelerate. It can't just go as fast as it is at 1 when it's at 2.
It's not a uniform acceleration. It's exponential. So while you're standing around holding position 1 and 2, you want to keep in mind how important it is about HOW you're going to hold onto the rim and how you can accelerate the disc like that.
We've blabbed quite a bit about the collapsing, loading -> unloading - so I won't go through it again... but understanding what is going to happen / how it happens / when and where - that's a big part of the battle. If you realize you're trying to speed up the disc from the backswing into the chest, then STOP and and get that disc into the last position (2).
If you're getting to 2 and the disc is flying right and you can tell it's flying right, that's when you can start diving into "the Hit 201" and start messing with shoulder timing... but I promise that a meat and potatoes hit is effortless and accurate.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2008
- Messages
- 22,093
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
I know what Dave is saying there, and it's a very different thing. I'm trying to describe the micro second of slinging the hooked in index finger at 3 to 4:00.
The sensation is like putting pressure on the acceleration later... Like forcing a little more pause before the hammer swing release.
Who knows, honestly maybe I'm just ripping harder from 4:00 and that feels like a right tug.
A report from the field: took my son out to throw a round today. Worked with him on stationary throws (no step, no backswing), just focusing on starting the disc in the power pocket, hand to the outside, elbow up and leading with it before unhinging. We got to hole 7 on the course, I threw one about 270' (used a pin placement for reference)--and he popped out one about the same distance, perhaps a couple feet further.
He's never broken 240' off a tee before. I think he's beginning to believe me that technique determines distance, not size and strength. It's also notable in that he's disabled, with fine motor control issues and a raging attention deficit all part of his disability--and he can learn the proper technique.
He's never broken 240' off a tee before. I think he's beginning to believe me that technique determines distance, not size and strength. It's also notable in that he's disabled, with fine motor control issues and a raging attention deficit all part of his disability--and he can learn the proper technique.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
Completely and totally awesome!!! :thmbup:
Since I started reading this thread I have been increasingly aware that my plant step in much too long and I was not bracing. Ignorance can be bliss. It has been very frustrating trying to fix this. If my weight feels right and balanced, I am not. Then I try to stay back ...mixed results. This week I will be doing nothin but Beto Drills and I may start drinking (soda, but of course) so I can crush some cans.
Similar threads
