So many divisions!!!!!!!!W

[Organicvoodoo]

So what do you guys should be the average price for Am/Pro?

 

[Reginald]

25 for am. 40-50 or however much pros want to play for

 

[discgolf4lif3]

Man people are cheap. Can't afford bags to play or tournys. Have fun playing by yourself. Payouts are designed to help grow the sport. If you wana throw down money and play pro go ahead. But stop bitching or don't play lol

 

[rexdp10]

I like the concept of fewer divisions...I grew up playing competitive ball golf, and had opportunities to play at a couple different colleges... Should of but I was burnt out and stubborn. We had two divisions <18 and <15 and most guys played up when I was traveling playing golf.

Anyways, I would play at any Stoney hill tourney if there was only one division. The problem is there would only be the top half of the advanced division, the pros, and one or two ints. Probably would be one or two age protected players and that's it.

When you have a tourney on a tough course you have to offer divisions or people get "hurt feelioma" and won't want to play.

Honest ranking has nothing to do with it either...a decent golfer can put together 975+ rounds if they play well and guess what...you will place. Maybe you won't win, but you will place. Aside from the elite disc golfers out there... If you average 950+ rounds in c and most b tiers chances are you will place.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

As an Am who doesn't play Advanced...

If you want to give back to the ams, give really great players packs instead of rewarding the winner with a voucher to a store where he has to "buy" plastic at inflated prices.

^agreed

Ams I have talked to do not want their entry fee going to pad the open payout and I can understand that sentiment

^ more agreement

 

[DavidSauls]

So if the TD put in half the time and effort by having only 2-4 divisions (and cutting a few other corners elsewhere), and only half the number of players showed up.......it would be a wash?

I think there is more going on motivating TDs than that. For one, many/most TD's also want to "win"....to be seen as having the biggest and best events.

I don't think there's any less work with the same number of players in fewer divisions, and not much less work if half as many players show up. It's like, we've held 1-day and 2-day events, and other than committing 2 days, there's not much difference in the total work.

There's some truth in the part about the TD's ego. Then again, when I ask why anyone would want to TD, I can't come up with a good answer. My brother and I treat it like throwing a party for our disc golf friends; when you throw a party, you want people to come, the more the merrier.

*

Which isn't to say I like the predominant structure. If I were appointed disc golf dictator---a job that hasn't been offered, by the way---it would be much different. But I can live with the division and am payout structures.

 

[DavidSauls]

Anyways, I would play at any Stoney hill tourney if there was only one division. The problem is there would only be the top half of the advanced division, the pros, and one or two ints. Probably would be one or two age protected players and that's it.

What if we had scaled entry fees? Something like, $100 for 1000-rated players, $20 for 900-rated and below, and scaled in between?

Top players are almost assured of getting their entry back, anyway.

Bottom players get to play for almost nothing, maybe get grouped with some top pros for a round or two, maybe catch lightning in a bottom and win something.

The 950-rated players in the middle get to play Pro, but unlike normal events, they have a better chance to cash because they won't be the bottom of the division.

More people are playing in the one Open division, so the top players have a bigger pool of money to play for.

Would that fly?

*

Part of the O.P. was wanting larger divisions. Regardless of payouts, large divisions are fun. When I started, Advanced divisions tended to be 30-40 players at local events. It was cool to have a real lead card, a 2nd card, a bottom card, and the chance to move up or down the cards over the course of the event, and play with a lot of different players. I miss that.

 

[DavidSauls]

I like the idea of playing for something in am divisions. I don't want a 10$ trophy because I'm not 12 years old. You have to give casual players a reason to come to a tournament.

I'm a lifelong Am and enjoy winning prizes. And I don't care that much for a $10 trophy. But---

If the entry fee were right, I'd attend a tournament for the opportunity to play in an organized tournament. No players pack, no payout.

It's a pleasure to have someone organize a tournament, and be able to play in it, compete against other disc golfers, and strive to beat them, or at least as many of them as I can. That's worth money, in and of itself. To me, anyway.

 

[Dave242]

I don't think there's any less work with the same number of players in fewer divisions, and not much less work if half as many players show up. It's like, we've held 1-day and 2-day events, and other than committing 2 days, there's not much difference in the total work.

I think there is a significant difference (I was careful to say though that it is not a 1:1 correlation).

I say this from the perspective of the person doing the administration of an event (preparation, running, wrapping up). As a private course owner, I would totally agree with you though since I assume course preparation dwarfs the energy, time and cost of everything else.

 

[6.5swede]

The last tourney I played in over half the field was either intermediate or rec. takeaway funny money nobody would show up.

 

[DavidSauls]

I think there is a significant difference (I was careful to say though that it is not a 1:1 correlation).

I say this from the perspective of the person doing the administration of an event (preparation, running, wrapping up). As a private course owner, I would totally agree with you though since I assume course preparation dwarfs the energy, time and cost of everything else.

For events at Stoney Hill the workload is immense, because of course preparation but also other things---like having people camping, providing meals, etc.

But I've also worked for years with Columbia Disc Golf Club, for tournaments that fill to 90 in 8 minutes, and tournaments that average about 50.

Pre-tournament work is about the same. Course preparation, grooming, marking O.B. Preparing and printing scorecards, scoreboard cards, etc. Arranging to have merchandise for prizes and sale. Hanging banners. Going to the bank to have cash on hand. Players meeting is the same. Dealing with the parks department is the same.

Post-tournament, too; the TD report, back to the bank, accounting.

The things that are easier with fewer players are check-ins, checking scorecards, and handling the scoreboard. In short, the things the players see. The unseen stuff, if not exactly the same, is very similar whether the tournament is full, or half-full.

 

[joshmo65]

I don't think it is a surprise that the most popular league in Pittsburgh is a handicapped league. People like to be able to compete and the only way to do that in the PDGA is to have divisions that separate people out into similar skill levels by rating.

 

[Toro71]

I don't think it is a surprise that the most popular league in Pittsburgh is a handicapped league. People like to be able to compete and the only way to do that in the PDGA is to have divisions that separate people out into similar skill levels by rating.

So we should expect there to be no difference between a local league and a PDGA sanctioned event?

 

[joshmo65]

So we should expect there to be no difference between a local league and a PDGA sanctioned event?

I don't think there is much difference from paying to play in a competitive league to paying to play in a competitive sanctioned event.

 

[1978]

To the OP: I share your opinion that all AMs should be paid out in players packs, not based on score in the tournament. This still raises essential money for clubs via the players packs and still raises the excitement for AMs to get cool custom stamped plastic. Even if this model is widely adapted, it doesn't necessarily mean that is the secret to a huge jump up in tournament play.

Maybe we have just reached a saturation point for tournament play, and all of this teeth gnashing about what it will take for tournament play to "really take off" is just a big ole moot point?

Tournaments are inherently limited to more serious players who have a whole weekend free to participate. Not the case for most golfers.

Then players are only exposed to the companies that can afford to layout players packs. Smaller companies like L64 would never get promoted at Am events. Give out merch nix the players packs and allow the players to choose what tehy want so they can try new things or expand their backup collection.

 

[1978]

So what do you guys should be the average price for Am/Pro?

I had no problem paying 80+ for Am Nats or $200 for Worlds. Higher cost in events brings out more serious players, but they are still Am so they aren't jerks yet.

 

[The Hammer]

I had no problem paying 80+ for Am Nats or $200 for Worlds. Higher cost in events brings out more serious players, but they are still Am so they aren't jerks yet.

I've met plenty of a-holes in the AM divisions, including at Am Nats.

 

[18Down]

The answer here is "invitational" Dont worry about all the divisions, age protections and the such. Run your tournament as an "invitational" with only Pro fields, Adv, and Jrs. Then we would have some competition and not just 4 people per division. No one is left out. Protecting open is just so silly, its called OPEN for a reason. Anyone who thinks they are the best will play in open. Everyone else can play AM or Juniors.

Want to exclude a PDGA player? Easy, I have seen it done with-in the rules. Say you want to exclude player "12345" Make your tournament an "invitational" for PDGA players "0-12344" and "12346 to what ever the most current player is in the pdga. Where are we by now 60000 yet? It is with-in the rules. Or was two years ago when I played in this type of tournament. Crazy ehh?

 

[DavidSauls]

It would require PDGA approval to be "invitational". Probably easy to get, I doubt the "range of membership numbers" to exclude a certain person would work.

PDGA rules state that all PDGA members in good standing are eligible to play.

 

[mashnut]

Then players are only exposed to the companies that can afford to layout players packs. Smaller companies like L64 would never get promoted at Am events. Give out merch nix the players packs and allow the players to choose what tehy want so they can try new things or expand their backup collection.

Or just make players packs a voucher that they can combine with payout vouchers. That's what many of the tournaments around Chicago do and it works well IMO.