Sponsor Effect

[Halcón]

I was thinking specifically about Paul, maybe Will, and Ricky...the big name pros. Innova has basically given McBeth the world. He said he has his own training facility, the nice RV, travel paid for...etc...etc.

How much of Paul's success is due to Innova, and how much is from Paul himself? If Nikko was given the same opportunities, would he be the best? If Will was given his own mobile home, and a nice car, would that allow for him to relax more? How much would that improve his game? How much could Ricky improve if Lat paid for his own disc golf training center?

This has nothing to do with the discs, so I don't want to go down that road. I'm strictly speaking of the sponsor's ability to take care of their player, and how that may affect player performance.

And I don't want to take anything away from Paul, or Will, or anybody. They would all be great disc golfers, no matter what they threw. But I do believe that Innova is truly making a champion, probably as they did with Climo before, and now with McBeth.

I guess you could say that the answer is obvious, in that all the perks are going to make a better disc golfer. Just wanted to hear your thoughts as to what extent.

 

[Tpro]

I think its really just about the time Paul puts in...

 

[JC17393]

While "perks" can certainly make life easier for a disc golfer, they still have to have the drive, motivation, and ability to take advantage of those perks and put them to best use. So in that sense, I'd have to say no, giving those perks to random pro X isn't necessarily going to make that player better. Having perks tailored to an individual player probably helps in a lot of ways, but the extent of how much it will help is very much up to the player. What works for Paul might not work for Will or Nikko or Ricky, but by the same token, whatever it is that would help those guys be the best they could possibly be might not work for Paul either.

 

[Jowie]

My opinion is that you can provide player A with all the luxuries and it would enable them to focus on golf and excel. You could provide the same to player B and he would get soft and lose his competitive hunger.

I think in Paul's case he is so driven to be great that it wouldn't matter how much support he gets. A common theme among the greats in many sports is that they hate losing more than they love winning.

A criticism I read about US golfers (ball golf) is that even mediocre players are millionaires in the current format. This has reduced the hunger to excel and has resulted in "softer" players. It was an interesting attempt to explain why we keep getting it handed to us in the Ryder Cup in recent years.

 

[Streets]

I think its really just about the time Paul puts in...

This. Innova's support didn't make the Beast. The Beast made The Beast.

 

[anrew18]

I don't think KC got nearly the sponsor support PM gets.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I think Paul's internal drive is what make him so great. He'd have won a world Champion without sponsorship, maybe even two. That said, I have no doubt that the level of support he gets from Innova plays a big role in making a run of championships. Not sure he'd have been able to win a 4th without that level of support throughout that part of his career, allowing him to maintain his focus and spend so much time practicing.

As Jowie said, some would "think they've arrived" and become complacent... that's where Paul's work ethic allows him to excel where not everyone else would.

He'd still be McBeast if he got the same level of support from any of the major names... but do any of them take care of their top pros to the same degree that Innova takes care of McBeth?

 

[Broken Shoulder]

You get out of it what you put into it.

I think Paul has probably created these opportunities for himself, and others haven't, for a number of reasons. To say that Paul has been handed anything is to belittle his efforts.

 

[grotto]

You get out of it what you put into it.

I think Paul has probably created these opportunities for himself, and others haven't, for a number of reasons. To say that Paul has been handed anything is to belittle his efforts.

This ^^^

Has Paul had support? Of course! But he got the support and maintains it through his own effort. If Innova hadn't picked him up, some other company would have.

Support doesn't create talent, if it did, we would be swimming in a sea of world class tennis, skating, gymnastic and golf wizards who miraculously became great because their parents tossed nothing but "support" on them since they were three.

 

[Donovan]

Having stuff will not make you mentally stronger than other players at the same caliber. At this level, they all have great skill and having stuff may improve your physical skills, but mentally, this is where it changes. The people you mentioned are all amazing. They all have a head for the game. It does come down to how you handle the pressure and the practice mentally. IMO

 

[JNichols]

I kinda wonder if Paul gets the support he does from his sponsors because they SEE the drive he has. From what I understand, there is not another pro on the tour that puts in the time and practice that McBeast does. I know I have heard this from people that tour with him. He puts in the blood, sweat, and tears. The sponsors have to be recognizing that. Especially after the run he is having.

 

[RobA]

I was thinking specifically about Paul, maybe Will, and Ricky...the big name pros. Innova has basically given McBeth the world. He said he has his own training facility, the nice RV, travel paid for...etc...etc.

How much of Paul's success is due to Innova, and how much is from Paul himself? If Nikko was given the same opportunities, would he be the best? If Will was given his own mobile home, and a nice car, would that allow for him to relax more? How much would that improve his game? How much could Ricky improve if Lat paid for his own disc golf training center?

This has nothing to do with the discs, so I don't want to go down that road. I'm strictly speaking of the sponsor's ability to take care of their player, and how that may affect player performance.

And I don't want to take anything away from Paul, or Will, or anybody. They would all be great disc golfers, no matter what they threw. But I do believe that Innova is truly making a champion, probably as they did with Climo before, and now with McBeth.

I guess you could say that the answer is obvious, in that all the perks are going to make a better disc golfer. Just wanted to hear your thoughts as to what extent.

Paul is a Champion by himself. That is why Innova sponsors him and gives him all the perks. I'm sure the perks don't hurt though.

 

[slowplastic]

How many people here own a basket in the backyard...and how many hours of putting does it see a week? Less than Paul's facility saw each day in the winter I'm betting...

 

[Agricolae]

When other players left for an upstart company a few years back, Paul stuck with Innova. Dunipace stuck with Paul. Loyalty is rewarded on both sides. Both appear to have gotten one helluva deal.

 

[RobA]

How many people here own a basket in the backyard...and how many hours of putting does it see a week? Less than Paul's facility saw each day in the winter I'm betting...

Mine see's about 3 hours practice a week. It definitely helps when I'm out on the course. Just waiting for that Innova "average guy having fun after work" sponsorship to come rolling in.

 

[wolfmandragon]

When other players left for an upstart company a few years back, Paul stuck with Innova. Dunipace stuck with Paul. Loyalty is rewarded on both sides. Both appear to have gotten one helluva deal.

Yes, I agree with this. As well as the fact that switching discs is hard on the game. I am sure there was all types of internal politics that none of us knows as well. There usually is.

While I agree that Paul has great skill and drive, he is able to focus on his game better for having his bills paid. How many pros still have normal jobs to pay their bills? I know there are several. If one is trying to feed a family, disc golf is not the place to be... Although this may be changing.
Although his prime has passed, what heights would have Cameron Todd reached if he had this type of support? Paul came into his prime at the right time to get the deal he has.
Just my thoughts.

 

[Josiah]

Yeah Paul has a nice rv. If you watch the doc on him, Drew and Nate mentioned that when they are relaxing in the trailer, Paul is outside putting. At worlds, Paul was struggling with putting and said after his round, he went to another course and putted for 2 hours. It has nothing to do with the perks, and everything to so with his work ethic.

 

[runningDoc]

its cumulative.

this was in Outliers by malcom gladwell* when he studied corporate lawyers and NHL hockey players.

Paul found DG in the perfect time (being a young natural athlete, no serious job/college/carrer + semi OCD about training) and became the best DG player he could be because his sponsors decided to put all their eggs into one basket (I recently listed to the Final Round Radio podcast with Philo and philo eventually said that innova pretty much focuses all on paul mcbeth in terms of time and money). So total support from all his sponsors (philo even mentioned that he was sponsored by grip bags but only got one bag from them in years of sponsorship/tourney top finishes - so he switched to UPD, paul mcbeth is on his 2nd signature bag) provide him the best environment for him to succeed.

paul would most likely still be the most dominate DG player out there with other sponsors, but what we are seeing now is the perfect confluence of factors of 100% support of sponsors + best and most training possible. there are likely to be other players who have better physical gifts (lizotte/wiggins) but don't have paul's head game, training time.





*sometimes everything falls into place perfectly and you have perfect candidates to excel + perfect environments for the candidates to succeed. in the case of corporate lawyers it was NYC jewish textile factory workers/managers/owners kids who were going to law schools and realized that they could bypass cultural bigotries for them to get into old school law firms by creating corporate law firms together to represent their own businesses and Canadian youth league hockey kids who were lucky enough to be born during a three month period that essentially gave them a 3month head start in physical/mental growth and development that compounded and cascaded their advantage because it put them in track to get chosen for traveling teams, better training + more training, and more opportunities to keep advancing up the ladder to professional hockey.

 

[corin_brown]

Having the support from Innova helps, but McBeth is the most professional, the hardest working, most obsessed, having the biggest motor, most dedicated player in the world. By a WIDE margin.

I remember listening to an interview with him and he was talking about switching from baseball to disc golf in high school and how when he made that decision, he spent every day of that summer, 8 hours a day, playing disc golf at Huntington Beach DGC. All day long, every day of the week, just working on his game. Nothing else.

The idea that if any other player enjoyed the same support from sponsors that McBeth does, they would be as accomplished as he is, is laughable. The bigger factor, as was mentioned above, is family responsibilities. If you have extra mouths to feed, I don't see how you can even hope to put in the requisite time to even think about competing with McBeth.

 

[bnbanbury]

Outside of a very small number of people on this site, people have basically no information on what players are actually getting from their sponsors (not that it stops people from speculating). At this point there are a number of players who are afforded the opportunity to exclusively play disc golf for a living and essentially have as much time as a person could want to devote to improvement.

Are the prodigy players getting greater financial incentives than other players? Feldberg is driving around in an RV and is an employee of Latitude, is he living a less luxurious lifestyle? I have no idea.

It does, however, seem ridiculous to suggest that someone who already makes their living playing disc golf like Will or Ricky or any number of other pros is just lacking an RV and an indoor throwing space to be as good as the best player in the sport.