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Video clips by jr, lcgm8, mafa and others

Icgm8; Watched every single clip of footage available on your channel Icgm8 and all I can say is thank you. Straight up; thank you. Your work is incredible and I have learned so much through watching the footage you provide. No one offers the same level of camera work and editing that you do and disc is a better sport because of what you provide.

JR; Are you the 2nd camera man? Does this account for your incredible knowledge of form etc or is your camera work a bi-product of your affiliation with the sport over all on the European scene?

I have been coming home from work for the past few weeks expectantly ready to catch the next bit of footage from the Euro Open, it has truly been a great event from the start to finish.

One last time, thanks a ton for all the hard work and dedication! Do you guys take donations or have a PayPal account?
 
Thanks a lot cajual! You can purchase higher quality videos through paypal as computer video MP4 files through lcgm8.blogspot.com

I'm a ninth season player and have spent more hours on the field than on the course. Blake_T is the reason along with all of the guys here and assorted others, who have given a lot of advice. Plus everything i've done myself to confirm, what others have said. Having a high speed camera points out, how i still don't throw how i'd like to. I can't engage my hips at higher speeds. I can't tell if it is due to spine injury. I must work on that. I have to gain muscle power too to be able to throw, how i know even, when i'm tired. My hips tilt, wrist rolls and arm drops below the throwing plane in the follow through, when i'm tired. Bye bye consistency and the longer competitions. Even short ones mean that i need to take off time from work to rest to stand a chance of throwing anything close to, how i know i can, when i'm at my best. I'm not a top thrower by any means. I know form flaws from experiencing them myself :roll: :oops:

On some videos i'm the second camera angle and third on others and the only one in some and lcgm has also done some solo filming and mafa is the third usual suspect. We've had help from others at times, especially this year at Tali Open from Hannu Lappalainen, the maker of Tali Open 2006 DVD and at the EO from jubuttib, varsi and mafa's brother. The video descriptions on Youtube often or perhaps always details, who are on the cameras.
 
EO 2011 final part 2 with a lot of drama unfolding and a cliff hanger in the end:
http://www.youtube.com/user/lcgm8#p/u/0/4WDlzgzFaKE
 
European Open 2011 final part 3 deciding the event. Can Dave hold onto his lead and how will Paul challenge Dave after the horror of the spat putt?
http://www.youtube.com/user/lcgm8#p/u/0/1wJKmWiuoT4
 
Thank you for the videos and all the work behind them. Do you plan to release the whole EO2011 as a torrent in the near future?
 
Kiitä Juhaa, hän tekee päätökset pääosin sitä, mitä jaetaan missäkin muodossa.

For the benefit of everyone welcome to the best disc golf site around. Even lcgm8 does not have the details of how future distribution of the European Open videos will go, because he has not heard back from Jussi Meresmaa in enough detail. I have even less information than lcgm8, so i have no clue if the EO will ever be released in full quality for free. There was initial talks about making the EO full quality vids a sales item as a hard copy in DVD and BD with possibly pay to download digital download as MP4 computer video files, but who knows how things will pan out eventually. I would imagine, that the sales versions would have more stuff in extras, that are not shown on Youtube. That is at least the case for Tali Open 2011, not sure if that's the way it goes for the EO. Things are unclear at the moment so i can't give you a definite answer. Or the timetables.

It would seem, that i can't totally escape commentary duties on this one either despite trying to recruit some local talent for commentaries. I think it would be good for the audience to hear different voices with different styles and focus on what to comment. I've done more commentary than has been released and i'm worried, that people may grow tired of hearing me go blah blah so much. We have an event from 2010 and one from 2011, that have not been commented on fully, because we've waited for the commentators we hoped would do the work to finish up or even start with the work. No luck so far. The 2011 event has not even been edited and released to Youtube in video only and we'll get to it only after we've cleared the schedule of the EO and the 2010 event. I can't say for sure, how long it takes to comment on and finalize each competition video. I expect it to take months for all of the events. I wouldn't think it's that bad if the last bits were ready next year. It would be bad if we were planning on making money out of the videos.

All this is primarily done for the growth and good of the sport and singing praises of the heroes of the sport to help them gain sponsors. To help them keep on playing professionally and hopefully creating a deeper field of top talent to help make the competition more interesting for everyone to watch. Thus making DG more marketable and hopefully getting DG to TV in such a large scale internationally, that we could attract major businesses to the sport to inject resources needed to make the sport and competitions better and growing the sport even larger. Fingers crossed.
 
JR; As said above I religiously watch the channel, the past few weeks I have found myself coming home from work daily expectantly ready to watch the next footage. The quality is phenomenal and the best online, hands down, there is no competition.

I have been a huge fan of the commentary from the get go, because I find that small things are presented that the young golfer has yet to pick up and may never will. That being said, if you guys were to offer premium content I would gladly subscribe or purchase.

Not only have these videos been an incredible source of enjoyment, they have also been a extraordinary educational tool for me helping me learn some of the finer aspects to positional play and some of the more advanced shots necessary on such a rigorous course.

Thanks again,
 
SDGO 2010 and Dutch Open bittorrents are free to download from piratebay and are of much higher image quality than Youtube. You can also download for a moderate fee other events from lcgm8.blogspot.com and that is premium quality.

It is nice to hear, that one aspect of the commentary in giving basic advice interspersed with other topics has been useful for some. We've gotten critique from local seasoned players for making the commentary too basic. But especially in the DO and SDGO videos we wanted to raise the accessibility of the sport to those, who have never seen it before and help out newer players in their progression. After all it is nice to see, what top players do and emulate them or avoid the inevitable mistakes, that even the best in the world do sometimes. You're never ready in this sport.

I will continue making commentaries, but i think, that variety is good too.
 
JR; Let me give you a parallel from my field of expertise.

I am a tech-junky; I modify, develop, and heavily customize Android devices for customers who are typically too busy with their own careers and personal lives. Android can be looked at like disc (or any other hobby turned sport, yoyo etc); it can be as deep as you make it -- but often the direction or motivation is not there even if the interest may be. It is these type of folks that need to be catered to.

what I do is provide basic assistance, as in battery, productivity, desktop, application, performance, and stability optimization in the form of written and video guided tutorials. But then, I also offer these services pre-packaged in a executable type system that takes all the work out of the users hands. It is two sides of the same coin, on one you have the user who wants to learn the basics and do it them self, and on the other you have the user that wants to reap the benefits of expertise with out the investment of time.

Have you ever thought of offering special premium content where higher level pros actually break apart specific clips and holes and talk about the over all strategy; ie break down the mental game and what they would be thinking etc, shot selection, disc selection, and just general more advanced information at a higher quality with better editing.

You cater to two types of customers here; those willing to pay for the higher grade information that most the average Joes could care less about, and a introductory tier that is still quite enjoyable for the everyday kind of guy. The individual who wants to learn, but is also out for enjoyment.

Now I am clearly just shooting out ideas, but the point is you have great content and there are lots of people out there who want to get into the minds of pros and get a sense of how they cognitively approach the sport. It could also serve as a tool to help build celebrity personalities, even if only at a small level.

One of the biggest issues disc suffers from is the lack of marketable personas. Think about WWF, WWE, MMA, or any other sport. What makes them successful from a business standpoint is that profit can be generated through celebrities. The sport is not interesting with out the rivalries and characters. Only players enjoy the play footage because only your most serious players can catch the nuance.

Anyways, just my 2c, thanks as always JR.
 
European Open 2011 final part 4 is the award ceremony and illustration of frisbee spirit:
http://www.youtube.com/user/lcgm8#p/u/0/os8slavHC94
 
Thanks for the suggestions cajual. So far every time, that an event ends international players rush to the airport and move to the next event. That does not leave time for interviewing. It would be great if people playing in the footage or people running the event and knowing the players, possibly even those, that have coached those players could comment. We've had nets in the water regarding some of this, but it hasn't panned out so far. Us residing in Europe have logistical troubles arranging commentary of top US players. It's difficult enough to arrange interviews in Finland, let alone other European countries. So far the players have not shown a lot of interest in commenting. It would be tremendous, if even one did. So far making money has not been the incentive to doing these videos. You'd have to talk to lcgm8 about better editing, because he does that.
 
Mixed. It is necessary for the benefit of all and all to often it is used to lobby the interest of the elite at the expense of the benefit of all. If you look at the revolutions in Africa and ongoing stuff in the Middle East the people ran the media to a large extent, but at least Al Jazeera played a major part in spreading the info initially, that something is brewing in the so called arab street and after that a lo of things happened in way many more countries. So traditional media can play a part in major events. Even on the side of the people and not just the elite. Even in not so free and democratic places. No wonder reporters get murdered at a rate never seen before. Lots of not nice people in power seem to tremble in their boots due to the fear of their actions being illuminated by journalists.

Even western reporters are murdered regularly even by western countries and not so savory western persons apparently. If you look at some western countries, their media has something to learn from arab media and how the people operate media.
 
JR;

Let me flesh out slightly better what I mean about the two statements I presented.

First, I do not mean interviewing the players currently playing in the event. Instead I mean that you could have a staffed Pro to give insight on specific highlights and reels. For example; in DotA, HoN, Starcraft etc there are channels that offer weekly player spotlights where they talk about 'the pimpest plays'. Basically they take footage from sanctioned match replays and clip it and walk the players through visually what happened in actuality and then again with what they believe the personal, and team strategy to be. It offers two different things to the community - shots of flashy play that spot lights individuals and builds recognition and insight for those who competitively understand the sport; entertainment coupled with knowledge.

Let me expand slightly more pointedly. In disc you could have holes of the week, recoveries, putts, par saves, big drives, interviews, disc opinion, course opinion, course spotlight, the list goes on and on. And as the sport grows and your team travels more your perspective will start to offer not only a glance into the EU scene but the North American also. By having an onhand pro you would have a persona that subscribers would build a relationship with. Think about the talk shows, usually you have a personality that drives the conversation and provides more casual opimion, while the other offers more indepth insight. Then you would be able to offer guest positions to local and touring pros and not dependent on working within the confines of others.

Second; when I mentioned editing I did not mean better in that the current is poor. In fact, it is top notch. What I mean is that specialized editing that creates the feel of a live event and shows additional information. Consider how Sports Center recreates plays after the fact, the way they will draw lines of motion and give visual reference.

Overall your content is incredible, but that is not to say that as the sport progreses naturally that we cannot help encourage it by adding some of the peripheral wow factor and media appeal that keeps both lay and hardcore viewers hooked.

Grow the sport.

Thanks as always,
Ye
 
Those all are good points and it would be great, if someone could pull those off. From our side time is the limiting factor. We can't keep up the amount of tourneys we cover any longer. The life situation of lcgm8 is changing so he won't have as much time to put into editing, which means that next year will see way less coverage. He'd need to get paid a full time works amount or close to it to be able to keep up the pace.

He's been on extended sick leave and that is why he has been able to do so much, and still with great personal sacrifice to private life. No wonder he's at the top in the Finnish Frisbee Association vote for disc golf deed of the year at the moment. I ratted him out to be a candidate with reasons why and so far Finnish disc golfers seem to appreciate, what he has done so i'm glad i did :-D

It takes a lot of work to edit like he does and trying to cover each shot means lots of editing, polishing and huge amounts of time. At times on two computers, because rendering takes a long time. We don't have the resources to pull of, what you mentioned. We'd need a pro for starters. The US would need even more money and time and none of that is available to us. We don't get paid for this it's almost 100 % out of our pocket. I've calculated, that at the moment i've gotten almost one percent of the money i've invested back, when i don't get paid for the work.
 
Well, I would say this; the more the sport grows the more success premium content will also. The more subscribers willing to put money into you guys pockets, the more freedom you have to invest in the further development. It is very much a cyclic process and you can find it all over. The biggest thing here is doing what can be done for now to help grow the sport and you guys are making an excellent effort at that in my opinion; produce quality content.

DG really needs to be shown on TV before it will ever take off, even if it was part of the premium content sports packages it needs to reach a much wider audience. To be fair though, part of me likes the way DG is, its still somewhat a secret; almost like the best next thing that no one has heard about. There is something about the flight of a disc.

I guess I should of pointed out immediately that I understood you guys where a trio of friends who did this out of the love for the sport, not because it was your day job. I understand that a lot of this has the 'all in good time' factor to it, but the important thing is to not close any doors and know what CAN be done as they begin to open. All it takes is the right media exposure and DG can become viral.

I just wanted to share some of my ideas ;D
 
Mafa really only films rarely so it's mostly lcgm8 doing the heavy lifting in the editing and i was supplying him footage and commentaries, when his health didn't allow filming and much narrating.

I've been doing videos for releasing for three years and two more for own use at crappy resolutions in high speed mode before that. Not a lot of money moves around in DG films even now. Those that want to earn by DG videos need sponsors now. A large part of why we do these videos is to make a marketable product, that is good enough for TV. So far Disc Golf Live has the best coverage on TV and it's mainly night time filler on community TV so not a lot of people get exposed to DG that way. As a natural consequence not a lot of videos are sold either. And of course releasing on Youtube takes a lot of the incentive of buying off of the hard copies.

Now that the PDGA tests the waters of added media exposure people might learn to watch and perhaps buy DG videos in the future. We can't bank anything on that. The first cycle of us paying basically for everything is still on, so no luck in being able to invest in future improvements so far. Other than digging deeper into our pockets. As it is not even DVD quality content pays for itself of the worlds DVDs in under three years.

Avery Jenkins has tried to get DG on TV for at least three years now without success in breaking into prime time in the US. The trouble there is, that you need commercials to pay for the airtime=costs and profits of the TV station. As long as people offering videos don't present legally binding contracts of advertisers to the TV station it is difficult to sell the clip. When there is no clear previously recognized viewer base. I haven't heard of market research being done in the US for media sexiness of DG on TV.

DG has been on Finnish nation wide channels in fairly good times to prime time in short clips around a dozen times so far. Replicating that in other countries is different. So far the programs have aired mostly on state owned channels, that don't need income from commercials. So DG is easier to get broadcasted, because there's no need for a few million dollar contracts. It has helped a lot, that there are disc golfing Finns, that work in TV :) Maybe that way the US could gain more DG TV exposure on channels, that aren't as dependent on ad money. Once there's precedence and hopefully a running show on small channels, maybe a medium sized channel could pick the idea and so on...

I'm not so sure about the TV being the only way of getting exposure. Newspapers, radio and exhibitions help. Akuf and me held a putting contest and told about the sport to the students of one university of applied sciences students, that came to the traditional school year beginning sports day event. There were so many people there, that we had no way of counting how many people we instructed and how many participated in the putting competition. I offered old and new unused discs of mine as a prize so that may have helped :) I think there were over 100 students present and participating on that day. In a town of 500 000 with twice that living in neighboring towns within about 14 mile radius. Pretty good coverage for one day. If that could be replicated more often it would add up. Some schools have DG in PE in my town a few times a year. I think it's mostly for kids from 14 years and up. Schools close to DG courses means that it's a minority of schools.
 
There are only so many hours in a day. lcgm8 has gotten more software and is learning the ropes with them and after it's done there's some great extras footage on the way. We haven't had much luck in getting guest commentators and that has held back the release of some 2010 events and it seems to fall on us to do it ourselves. I dumped a lot of rushed commentary onto his lap yesterday so he'll be busy cutting the bad pieces out and tasking me to take other attempts for a while. During which time i may be able to push forward with the other commentaries to further increase his workload. We need to finalize the old competition videos before we start work on the Dutch Open 2011 videos. It will be a while, before we get to that though.

There are only so few hours in a day paid or not his computers don't render any quicker and the amount of improvements he does in the cutting, to the video and audio and graphics takes a lot of labor. So it probably means, that we can offers some relief from cabin fever, when there's snow on the ground. Asking for more won't increase available hours to working on the videos so the videos will come out, when they will come out. It will be more in months range than weeks i suspect. Save for some tickling extras, that should be ready sooner.
 
Avery Jenkins throwing just before the award ceremony at Tali Open 2011. lcgm8 did not want to make the 3D more compatible across different platforms by changing it to anaglyph.

http://www.youtube.com/user/lcgm8#p/u/1/l2FKSiZPHWE

President's Cup part 3 with Simon Lizotte, Nikko Locastro, Paul McBeth and Karl Johan Nybo:

http://www.youtube.com/user/lcgm8#p/u/0/qYnh4l1fyV4
 
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