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Of recent, discussions of Discing Down and Progression Theory (starting with putters to learn form before progressing to Mids and Drivers) has lead to me wonder: What is Good Form?
In pursuit of the the best way to achieve it, would it first make sense to know what it is?
Can someone provide a comprehensive definition? Or are we left with a "you will know it when you see it" kind of vague and unsatisfying understanding?
Essentially it's the efficient transfer of kinetic energy from your body to the disc. There are a lot of small facets of the throw that vary from person to person which make it difficult to describe "good form".
People with "bad form" typically generate all their power with their arm, or fail to use their wrist properly and lose a lot of efficiency. People with "good form" harness a lot of the power in their hips and core and time their motions such that the disc is accelerated really quickly when you shift your weight.
Essentially it's the efficient transfer of kinetic energy from your body to the disc. There are a lot of small facets of the throw that vary from person to person which make it difficult to describe "good form".
People with "bad form" typically generate all their power with their arm, or fail to use their wrist properly and lose a lot of efficiency. People with "good form" harness a lot of the power in their hips and core and time their motions such that the disc is accelerated really quickly when you shift your weight.
I'm pretty sure Feldberg put it all together. There have been a number of generally acknowledge elements of a good throw but no one ever knew how to go into the specifics of all of it. As an actual professor Dave has cataloged and written on the bio-mechanics and kinetic linking of every part of the sport. As I understand it they (Berg, Climo, Gurthie, and some others) aren't finished with the drive fully but they've gotten a lot of it figured out.
... I'll do a little injustice in thinking I know anything and indulge the troll at the same time...
-Xstep: The most common approach to loading the hips and positioning them for an optimal throw
-Reachback: Sometimes it's big, sometimes it is short, either way it activates your torso and shoulders
-Weight transfer: This really is one of the best examples I can give of the weight shift. Around the 32 mark you see Tiger's weight transfer from his back foot to his front foot. In another video Feldberg explains that both drives share this similarity. We just approach it with speed through the x-step because the throw is dependent on us gathering momentum. But that weight shift still happens.
-Heel Pivot: On the heel and not on the toe
-Driving the elbow forward: all seem to agree that you should feel like you're muscling it.
-Snapping the disc: wrist, tendons, grip... there is a series of actions that happen here that I personally can only describe as a car crash of kinetic linking.
and disc flies.
Feldberg would also describe it as getting out of the way of the disc... just go watch some of his videos.
You seem to be under the impression that the two are mutually exclusive, when in fact they are linked. Good form generates lots of energy and allows you to transfer it to the disc very quickly. Power is the rate of energy transfer.
I'm pretty sure Feldberg put it all together. There have been a number of generally acknowledge elements of a good throw but no one ever knew how to go into the specifics of all of it. As an actual professor Dave has cataloged and written on the bio-mechanics and kinetic linking of every part of the sport. As I understand it they (Berg, Climo, Gurthie, and some others) aren't finished with the drive fully but they've gotten a lot of it figured out.
... I'll do a little injustice in thinking I know anything and indulge the troll at the same time...
-Xstep: The most common approach to loading the hips and positioning them for an optimal throw
-Reachback: Sometimes it's big, sometimes it is short, either way it activates your torso and shoulders
-Weight transfer: This really is one of the best examples I can give of the weight shift. Around the 32 mark you see Tiger's weight transfer from his back foot to his front foot. In another video Feldberg explains that both drives share this similarity. We just approach it with speed through the x-step because the throw is dependent on us gathering momentum. But that weight shift still happens.
-Heel Pivot: On the heel and not on the toe
-Driving the elbow forward: all seem to agree that you should feel like you're muscling it.
-Snapping the disc: wrist, tendons, grip... there is a series of actions that happen here that I personally can only describe as a car crash of kinetic linking.
and disc flies.
Feldberg would also describe it as getting out of the way of the disc... just go watch some of his videos.
The question posed seeks more a definition than a list of components. For example if I asked what an automobile was and you listed tires and battery and motor, etc.
I have watched Felberg's videos and thought he was an excellent teacher but I recently read on this website that Climo and Feldberg are not good sources of knowledge (perhaps because they don't agree with discing down??) Could anyone direct me to the generally acclaimed experts on this site?
Feldberg is an expert. The thread you read was about 2nd or 3rd hand information about a few statements taken out of context, and was really more about strategy than technique.
The question posed seeks more a definition than a list of components. For example if I asked what an automobile was and you listed tires and battery and motor, etc.
I have watched Felberg's videos and thought he was an excellent teacher but I recently read on this website that Climo and Feldberg are not good sources of knowledge (perhaps because they don't agree with discing down??) Could anyone direct me to the generally acclaimed experts on this site?
You seem to be under the impression that the two are mutually exclusive, when in fact they are linked. Good form generates lots of energy and allows you to transfer it to the disc very quickly. Power is the rate of energy transfer.
I think a LOT of players and DGCR junkies focus way too much on "form" threads. Throwing far doesn't make you a pro player. Throwing accurately, sinking putts, and overall making the right choices on the course is what makes a player succeed. If you can throw an accurate distance(drivers or mids or putters) of 250-300ft, you'll be a MUCH better player than someone who can reach 500ft of max D with no accuracy.
Watching the latest DGM video Feldburg explains that a large portion of good form is pulling through on a line that runs from your target through you and infinently behind you (poor paraphrase). So if you have good form you will pull through on line and hit said line not because of your accuracy but as a result of your form.
Now good form doesn't not compensate for errors of judgement though so it is possible to have great form and not score well because you make bad decisions.
The more efficient your energy transfer, the more control you're going to be able to build. You still have to be efficient on shorter throws though. Efficiency is the key.
I think a LOT of players and DGCR junkies focus way too much on "form" threads. Throwing far doesn't make you a pro player. Throwing accurately, sinking putts, and overall making the right choices on the course is what makes a player succeed. If you can throw an accurate distance(drivers or mids or putters) of 250-300ft, you'll be a MUCH better player than someone who can reach 500ft of max D with no accuracy.
Then people are misunderstanding or talking rubbish in the form threads. Good form will not only give you more distance, it's also (and quite honestly more) about getting a consistent throw. And when you can throw consistently you can throw accurately. Good form is the basis of consistency, accuracy and distance.
Oh, and you should never neglect putting practice in favor of practicing max d.
The question posed seeks more a definition than a list of components. For example if I asked what an automobile was and you listed tires and battery and motor, etc.
I have watched Felberg's videos and thought he was an excellent teacher but I recently read on this website that Climo and Feldberg are not good sources of knowledge (perhaps because they don't agree with discing down??) Could anyone direct me to the generally acclaimed experts on this site?
I would probably be included in that "self proclaimed expert" category. As for your analogy the components of a car ARE what make up a car. If I told you a car is "a vehicle, most often used for transporting family and possessions" then you could define a UHaul truck as such... but hey. If this is what you need to get your jimmies then go for it.
The question posed seeks more a definition than a list of components. For example if I asked what an automobile was and you listed tires and battery and motor, etc.
Good form is just doing all that stuff correctly, just like an automobile is all of that stuff assembled correctly. I'm not sure what value you're looking to get out of a definition that's not circular (e.g. good form is throwing correctly).
An automobile is "a self-propelled passenger vehicle that usually has four wheels and an internal-combustion engine, used for land transport."
Good form is "the set of movements required to throw a disc accurately and far."
Neither of those helps anyone learn how to drive, it's just a reference for someone who doesn't speak English well.
Good form = what is best for you and your body. Every pro looks different in their forms, but one thing is constant...the acceleration through the hit.
