[Other] Why don't manufacturers include disc run no. in their stamps?

[hugheshilton]

cuz the Swedes are using robots at the mold machine where everyone else has a human weighing and marking the disc after it's pulled from the single or final shot

Is that really true? I figured that they just had a better handle on mixing their weighting agent into the plastic to get a mix that would provide the exact weight they wanted to run and then used a changeable bit on the mold to set the weight they were running. Do you know for sure that they have robots doing the weighing and then embossing the disc after the fact or are you just guessing?

 

[ZAMson]

Is that really true? I figured that they just had a better handle on mixing their weighting agent into the plastic to get a mix that would provide the exact weight they wanted to run and then used a changeable bit on the mold to set the weight they were running. Do you know for sure that they have robots doing the weighing and then embossing the disc after the fact or are you just guessing?

In order from seen to guessing to heard...

I've seen photos/videos of a molding machine running in their factory, and it was automated with robotics (not uncommon in molding, only in frisbee molding) in a big fenced-in enclosure. I handled gazillions of Lat and Westside discs in retail before they made the switch to dot matrix-printed weights (are they embossed now?) and I'm guessing that they didn't retool dozens of molds to include changeable bits when a printing or embossing robot would be much simpler. And I've heard from a few dealers that humans don't touch the disc till after it's weighed and trimmed. It's a quality process, I have a lot of respect for what Latitude brought to the table in disc making. Any maker that doesn't seem boutique (which I also appreciate) probably has some automation in the material mixing/feed.

 

[ZAMson]

As far as the robotic weighing guess, I helped design and code for a machine that weighed discs, assigned a retail color, and logged into inventory. A high schooler did the heavy lifting on that one. I think the Swedes could manage it.

 

[hugheshilton]

I wasn't really doubting that it was doable. I know there are much more complex manufacturing processes that are automated with robots. I was just asking what your sources were or how sure you were that this was the case. "Embossed" was probably the wrong word since the lettering is raised rather than pushed in; my bad there. Thanks for the info; sounds like you are probably correct. That's actually pretty cool; I wonder if Innova will ever do this.

 

[Twmccoy]

I always just assumed they embossed the weight on after the disc was manufactured. Or used that dot matrix method. I've seen both on discs.

Either one of them are still better than writing the weight on with a ball point pen and having it wear off 6 months later.

And Discraft's little stickers are even worse. Not only are they imprecise, they fall off easily. Discraft was better off when someone wrote the weight on the rim of the disc.

 

[ZAMson]

I wasn't really doubting that it was doable. I know there are much more complex manufacturing processes that are automated with robots. I was just asking what your sources were or how sure you were that this was the case. "Embossed" was probably the wrong word since the lettering is raised rather than pushed in; my bad there. Thanks for the info; sounds like you are probably correct. That's actually pretty cool; I wonder if Innova will ever do this.

in all fairness and knowing how much processes can change, it's been at least 6 months since I handled a modern Lat-made disc and there's no telling when it was molded. I remember seeing the raised DD logos while I was in retail. The robotic scale/embosser comment was more to say, it's over my head but not the nerdy kids these days.

IIRC the old Strikers I knew and loved are now known as "snowflake" Strikers because of a pattern on the plate that was allegedly caused by how the robot pulled the disc from the mold.

Main thing I like about Lat is that I hope they drive more technological integration in disc making. Buyers are too complacent thanks to the norm that's been established. I first threw Lat's stuff in 2006 and they'd come a long way even when Strikers first came out, and I preached the Striker gospel hard to customers. Lat quality in Innova molds would be dreamy.

 

[Toro71]

I always just assumed they embossed the weight on after the disc was manufactured. Or used that dot matrix method. I've seen both on discs.

Either one of them are still better than writing the weight on with a ball point pen and having it wear off 6 months later.

And Discraft's little stickers are even worse. Not only are they imprecise, they fall off easily. Discraft was better off when someone wrote the weight on the rim of the disc.

Seems like there's a smallish needle to thread using stickers, between falling off too soon, and being freaking annoyingly impossible to peel off without leaving that dirt-holding adhesive residue that's a PIA to remove. (Though I'm sure there are several methods that well be posted in 3....2....)

 

[ilmcgee]

I prefer to stay several years behind on new releases. That way you guys can figure out if a mold is worth a damb and which plastic and weight its best in.

 

[Twmccoy]

Seems like there's a smallish needle to thread using stickers, between falling off too soon, and being freaking annoyingly impossible to peel off without leaving that dirt-holding adhesive residue that's a PIA to remove. (Though I'm sure there are several methods that well be posted in 3....2....)

I agree, I don't like stickers on my discs for any reason. If I were in charge of a major DG company I'd formulate another more permanent way of writing the weight and model name on a disc.

Discraft has a good thing going with how they write the model on the inside rim of the disc.

I guess I'm just sick of finding random old Innova tourny stamped discs where you have no idea what mold it is, or what weight. At that point you have to start comparing rims with other discs.

 

[hugheshilton]

Discraft has a good thing going with how they write the model on the inside rim of the disc.

Yeah, but Discraft's weight stickers are the worst! They don't come off easily and they leave behind a nasty residue. And if you throw the disc a couple times before remembering to take off the sticker, it's even worse.

 

[Twmccoy]

Yeah, but Discraft's weight stickers are the worst! They don't come off easily and they leave behind a nasty residue. And if you throw the disc a couple times before remembering to take off the sticker, it's even worse.

The stupid sticker also lists a 3g range. Like 172-174. That's pretty vague. Just weigh the thing and put the EXACT weight on the disc.

 

[Marmoset]

There might be a good reason for Discraft wanting to be vague. The weight they see in the factory might not be the same that the end user sees.

The problem is that disc plastic is hygroscopic which is a fancy word for "will absorb water" even from the moisture in the air.
When the plastic is hot out of the mold then the moisture content is extremely low. As the disc sits in different environments it will absorb anywhere from very little to a substantial amount of water weight. This could fluctuate the weight by several grams. I don't think it would gain more than 2% which is 3.5 grams on a 175g disc... I would need to see the technical data sheets for all the materials involved in order to say for sure.

Another issue might be the time or money expense of calibrating their scales.

I don't know why Discrat goes the sticker route but these are my two guesses.

The stickers used to drive me insane but lately I just don't care about +/- 5 grams. As long as its reasonably close I'm happy. The only thing that still bugs me about the stickers is that they fall off and then I have no clue about the ballpark weight for the disc. So I just Sharpie my own weight on the Discraft discs.

 

[Noill]

cuz the Swedes are using robots at the mold machine where everyone else has a human weighing and marking the disc after it's pulled from the single or final shot

But don't you think there is a better way than some pen marks on the underside?

Perhaps a branding iron that puts a slight and permanent mark... I don't think it is legitimate to say that this isn't done because the heat would affect the flight or shape of the disc... it is a minor thing... if the capacity isn't there to mark this into the disc during the molding process, then find a method that is more savvy than a bic pen (which is sometimes illegible due to poor handwriting)?

 

[hugheshilton]

But don't you think there is a better way than some pen marks on the underside?

Perhaps a branding iron that puts a slight and permanent mark... I don't think it is legitimate to say that this isn't done because the heat would affect the flight or shape of the disc... it is a minor thing... if the capacity isn't there to mark this into the disc during the molding process, then find a method that is more savvy than a bic pen (which is sometimes illegible due to poor handwriting)?

Umm, Latitude does that, which is what ZAM was talking about. The weight is printed in raised numbers on the disc just like the disc name itself. Have you not looked at the underside of any Trilogy discs in the last few years?

 

[Noill]

Umm, Latitude does that, which is what ZAM was talking about. The weight is printed in raised numbers on the disc just like the disc name itself. Have you not looked at the underside of any Trilogy discs in the last few years?

no, does Trilogy brand or mold (is the weight typed in recessed or raised characters)?

 

[DanJon]

I don't mind Discraft's system personally.

Most people throw discs in the same relative weight range.

That and I have no problem remembering what a certain disc in my bag weighs.

 

[Future_Primitive]

Umm, Latitude does that, which is what ZAM was talking about. The weight is printed in raised numbers on the disc just like the disc name itself. Have you not looked at the underside of any Trilogy discs in the last few years?

This has me a bit confused, a branding iron wouldn't produce raised letters/numbers which is what I believe my Latitude Pures have for weights on the underside. It would seem to me a heat stamp or branding would cause the letters/numbers to be recessed. Wouldn't raised letters have to come from the molding process??

If it is during the molding process is their process that precise to know within 1 gram of what will be run. "Time to run some 174 Pures, pull the 174 bottom plate". I have some of the 10 years and 3 were marked 174 and 1 other was 173. I am a bit baffled how this works.

 

[ODRB]

Jerry has them at his shop and I've taken a quick glance, but like I said before I just don't know what stands for what with millennium unfortunately, cause I'll throw anything if it feels good and flies good.

Jerry has one of the best Mill selections I have ever seen in a retail shop. Was in there on Monday -- tons of Millennium. Some new. Some old.

I don't get to many west side courses too often, although I play Horning's a fair bit. And Buxton occasionally. Mostly I hang around Pier, Milo and Blue Lake. But I'd sure like to get another round in soon buddy.

I like Millennium. A lot. But only really throwing Orions (LS and LR) right now. JLS and Sentinels get in there from time to time, but throwing fewer randoms once I settled into molds/runs I like. Stiff flat *DS, flat OLFs, pearly PFN OLRs, domey 10x and flat 11x Gazelles, Rocs with straight/concave rims and mild domes, and stiff lower-profile Wizards.

However, everything you think you know about run numbers, even from a company like Millennium that claims to differentiate, needs to be taken wit ha grain of salt. Learn what discs look and feel like -- there is no substitute for that. Examples: I've seen 1.1 Zippertop SOLFs with the 1.3 stamp. I have seen 1.1 Zippertop QOLFs with a 1.2 stamp. So you have to know how to spot the zippertop from look and feel, if those are the ones you like. There are carryover CE JLS that got stamped with the single foil stamp for the later (either 1.2 or 1.3, depending who you ask) run. You need to know how to spot and feel for that CE feel (which feels different from the test Run of 2000 CE feel). There are two plastics (at least) for the 10x Gazelle -- I like one better than the other. You have to be able to spot the difference, not just go by the stamp. 2-Line AJ Destroyers? All penned *DS? I love the stiff flat ones (and the few flatties with the bubbles in the rims) but there are softer pop tops that look exactly the same in a photo.

So sure, it might be sortof nice for manufacturers to endeavor to mark runs, even though it is probably counter to their best interests. But you need to learn to feel a disc and tell if it is what you want.

TLDR: Learn the feel you like on the molds you throw. Throwing fewer molds will help with that. Then buy them when you find them, whether you think you "need" another one then or not. Yeti has called it "investing in your game".