[Other] Why don't manufacturers include disc run no. in their stamps?

[jannne]

Watched the Meresmaa Q&A a while ago. Someone asked a question about finding out which run a disc of theirs is. His answer was something in the lines of what has been discussed here too before, that is Discmania is very forthcoming and helpful in these things. Or at least their webstore includes information about the run and how it flies compared to previous runs.

Why don't they just stamp the run no. on their discs? Is there a reason not to?
Well I guess there is the potential of losing sales if a particular run is no good. But IMO thats still better than guesswork based on rim bubbles, colour and feel of the disc... I'd certainly appreciate that kind of honesty from a company. Gives an impression that they are proud of their products and value their customers.

Funny anecdote: I asked Lizotte for an autograph on my C-line PD2 after a Flying Circus event last year and he was like: "Wait, is this one of mine?" (he emptied his bag on the field during the event)
He said that my disc was a good run and that he wished that it was his
I would've offered it to him if the disc wouldn't have been so beat up that it had only a fraction left of its stability. Chunks missing and stuff. I guess he could've used it as a roller disc

 

[Marmoset]

According to the owner of a disc manufacturer:
He doesn't want to include run numbers because some runs of discs mold up with desirable flight characteristics and others don't. Putting run numbers on the discs would cause the undesirable runs to sit on the shelf and not sell.

In my opinion manufacturers should label their runs. Inconsistency is their problem, not ours

 

[wims]

I believe Millenium is the only brand that includes the run in the name of the disc

 

[Mocheez]

Millennium was also the least disliked company in a recent DGCR survey. Coincidence?

 

[hugheshilton]

Millennium is the least liked company (not the most disliked mind you, just the least liked), because they don't have a marketing budget and don't introduce new molds very often. Seriously, they have basically no marketing, almost no sponsored players, no tournament sponsorships, they don't seem to try and get their discs into retail stores, and they don't release many new molds (1 in 2016, 1 in 2015, 2 in 2014, 3 in 2013, 1 in 2012, etc.). They do trickle out new molds, but because there is no marketing, I don't think many people know about them. From what I can tell, they are seen as sort of a has-been of the old days of disc golf. It's not necessarily fair, but that's the perception.

 

[tbird888]

Millennium's discs are so good they don't necessarily need to spam the market with new molds. I like that they're not super popular. I get to pick up old QJs for fair prices!

 

[93EXCivic]

Millennium is the least liked company (not the most disliked mind you, just the least liked)\

Least liked seems a little unfair. I see them more often in the big box stores around here then many other brands.

Plus it seems like plenty of people here throw Millennium.

Plus the OLF is the best control driver on the market.

 

[hugheshilton]

Anyway, back on topic. There is almost certainly some extra cost (and time taken) to changing the stamp with a new run number every time they switch which mold they're running. Millennium is a super small operation with very few runs so I don't think it hurts them too much. Also, for the very large manufacturers like Innova or Latitude, they can have multiple machines and people working on a single "run" of a disc. That run could also last multiple days for popular molds, and temperature/humidity conditions affect consistency. So even within a run there is some inconsistency, so the stamp wouldn't necessarily help.

I think the point about certain runs not selling as well might be a danger, but I sort of doubt it. The people who would be keeping track and not buying certain runs and buying others are the 1% of disc golfers (DGCR-type folks and pros). I doubt the chuckers who buy the majority of discs would pay any attention to it at all (which is another reason for the disc companies NOT to incur the extra expense of doing it).

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

Millennium is the bees knees! They have a minimal, but overall pretty complete lineup. Some great molds in all categories, list their runs on the stamp mostly, great plastic blends. What's not to like? Steve brinster was sponsored by them for quite a while

 

[@iDiscGolf]

So with mileniums naming and run labeling. Do they all fly very different within the same disc name?

 

[hugheshilton]

Okay wait I read the above post wrong. He said "least disliked" not "least liked." Sorry, my bad on that. I think most of my points about Millennium are actually still valid, but DGCR folks love an underdog (and are willing to search stuff out) so I guess it's not surprising they get more love here than elsewhere. FWIW, I have only ever seen Millennium in 2 disc golf stores and they were the type of large stores which stock pretty much every disc brand of discs there is.

 

[tbird888]

Much like every other mold run, there are subtle variations, yes. My 1.11 QJLS is less overstable than my 1.1 and 1.2, but it's still perfectly stable, high-speed wise, but fades milder.

 

[Three Putt]

The way it was explained to me once was that discs in a lot of cases don't get run and then stamped. The discs get run and go in a warehouse or storage or sumpin', then get pulled out to get stamped. Discs are usually run before the entire previous run is gone, so they all get mixed up. This was my explanation for why I had old Ontario Rocs in the same custom stamp order as the new Rancho Rocs way back in the day. Gawd, I'm old!

Anyway, if nothing has changed, Innova really doesn't know what run it is by the time it is stamped. Some of a run gets sent to Carolina Flying Discs and gets stamped there, some gets stamped in California, some are blanks for custom stamp orders...they really don't know 100% what run a disc is by the time it gets stamped.

 

[jannne]

In my opinion manufacturers should label their runs. Inconsistency is their problem, not ours

This :clap:

 

[hugheshilton]

So with mileniums naming and run labeling. Do they all fly very different within the same disc name?

They're molded by Innova so I think the answer is probably yes. I only have any real experience with the Scorpius. I have a stack of first run Siriuses. They MOSTLY fly the same but even within that run there are variations. Some have more dome than others, and the flatter ones are a bit less stable. I've also bought some Blizzard Scorpiuses (which don't have the run number on the stamp btw) and they are are all over the map, but the same general rule applies: domey = more stable, flat = very understable. I've bought some 2.1 run Scorpiuses (which was supposed to be printed as 1.2 because it's the second run), which were produced in the "soft star" era and do fly and grip a little differently as well.

Anyway, my point is that Millennium is molded by Innova, and they are just as (in)consistent as Innova. However, those inconsistencies aren't nearly as magnified because less runs are made and consistency within a run is at least a little better than consistency across runs.

 

[7ontheline]

So with mileniums naming and run labeling. Do they all fly very different within the same disc name?

Of course they vary, you must be new here

Like most molds, the faster they are the greater chance that the smallest production difference will impact its flight path when compared to another run, color, and plastic blend.

Comparing PLH is still the best way to determine flight without actually throwing discs of the same mold and plastic side by side.

 

[hugheshilton]

In my opinion manufacturers should label their runs. Inconsistency is their problem, not ours

Hmm, this is only sort of true. We could certainly have truly consistent molding if we were willing to pay for it. As has been said before, all sorts of industries do consistent injection molding with consistent plastic blends. It just costs a lot more. Ultimately the market (us collectively) decides what sells and companies will meet that demand. Are YOU willing to pay $40 a disc for consistency? I think if you look at how the biggest online disc sellers have flourished in the last few years by cutting their prices down to rock bottom levels, that should tell you the answer for the general disc buying public. People want to pay $14 for Star, not $20 so they are willing to buy online even though they are less sure what the final product actually looks and feels like. Some people (DGCR nerds) are certainly willing to pay more and buy locally so they can feel up the discs in person. However, that doesn't seem to be the opinion of the general buying public. It would be interesting if a company was started by people who knew injection molding well that charged more per disc for very consistent molding and plastics. I sort of think that it would go bankrupt and close within a year or two, but I'd love to see someone (else) try it.

 

[hugheshilton]

The way it was explained to me once was that discs in a lot of cases don't get run and then stamped. The discs get run and go in a warehouse or storage or sumpin', then get pulled out to get stamped. Discs are usually run before the entire previous run is gone, so they all get mixed up. This was my explanation for why I had old Ontario Rocs in the same custom stamp order as the new Rancho Rocs way back in the day. Gawd, I'm old!

Anyway, if nothing has changed, Innova really doesn't know what run it is by the time it is stamped. Some of a run gets sent to Carolina Flying Discs and gets stamped there, some gets stamped in California, some are blanks for custom stamp orders...they really don't know 100% what run a disc is by the time it gets stamped.

As usual, 3P shows up with the information that was lacking in this thread. I think all that makes sense. One possible way they could still alleviate this would be to have the people marking the weights also mark a run number in ink. Then it would happen at the time the disc was run and wouldn't be an extra cost like a stamp change.

 

[ODRB]

Millennium Golf Discs has always been onto something!

 

[Halcón]

This is what Chad from MVP said to ZJ back in the day:

From what I was told by a trusty source, do not expect any more MVP first run stamps. They want to make products that are always the same every run. No desire to hype it up with a "first run" stamp

This is correct. We don't like to leave doors open for inconsistencies to result in the division of production and first runs. We try our best to keep every run the same.