Glaring omission in the top 10

[dscmn]

That's true. From a practical standpoint, a well designed course for your skill level can be frustrating since you know you should be able to play it well. Someone made a comment about going to Worlds this year and discovering he couldn't hit lines even though he was theoretically playing courses at his skill level.

Exactly. I thought that was an interesting post. So you're admitting that particular skill levels can vary even with a skill level category?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Absolutely. There's no question that people have slightly differing skill sets within a skill range. But perhaps surprisingly, it's not more than a few shots or less than 10% variance in scoring range.

 

[lion]

Does anyone know what course plays the hardest overall. Meaning has the highest scores on average for all skill sets?

 

[Cgkdisc]

The 2011 Winthrop Gold setup using throw and distance penalties everywhere.

 

[hawk12]

Does anyone know what course plays the hardest overall. Meaning has the highest scores on average for all skill sets?

Iron Hill - Newark DE uses no OB rope, no distance and shot penalties and has an SSA of 71-72.5 for nearly every tournament played there.

This course is 10,000 feet of wooded long dogleg fairways, with elevation and large rocks that challenge the best pros and can beat the crap out of a newer player. Mentally, physically, skill and talent alike are all challenged here...

 

[BraveThrower43]

I believe Renny Gold (non worlds layout)has a SSA of 69 but I'd bet Iron Hill would beat it out by a tad

Edit: Yep just now read the post above mine. lol

 

[McJesus]

Nobody is gonna know this one and the pictures don't even get close to doing it justice but Chautauqua Park in Beatrice Nebraska is easily one of the most underrated in Nebraska. The pictures are so bad I want to retake them now with the foliage 'cause the early spring pictures make it look so baron. For a town of 13000 the park is incredible and the DG scene there is really starting to take off after 14 YEARS. Its like a hidden gem

 

[optidiscic]

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3713&mode=ci

 

[McJesus]

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3713&mode=ci

That's Mississippi not Nebraska

 

[optidiscic]

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3713&mode=ci
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=536&mode=ci

its funny I like the one in miss better than the one in Nebraska lol judging by photos

 

[dreadlock86]

the one in MS is awesome and i can't wait to get back there! great course

i can't wait to get to Selah also. and if either course warrants less than a 5, i will gladly be the one to do it.

 

[hawk12]

I'm kinda surprised that Iron Hill was only mentioned twice in this whole thread, once as a comparision for long courses, and the other time for being highest SSA in the country.

Its reviews are high, except for 2-3 very on guys that poorly rated the course before it was anywhere near dome, including one guy who's not rated any other course EVER - and that's a very low review of 1.5 by RoGo3 in 2008, Godard gave it a 3 after only 6 months in the ground and hasn't revised in 4 years. adlacro gave it a 2.5 and the course was 4 months old and no where near completed, don't even play about 13 of those basket locations anymore...
Before Iron was a year old, and no where near done it got 4 reviews under 4, since it has 2 reviews under 4, both because those individuals were out gunned and couldn't throw far enough to see the real beauty of its designed doglegs and risk/reward shots...
I just shocked nobody has mentioned Iron as a potential top 10 course.

 

[jtreadwell]

I'm kinda surprised that Iron Hill was only mentioned twice in this whole thread, once as a comparision for long courses, and the other time for being highest SSA in the country.

Its reviews are high, except for 2-3 very on guys that poorly rated the course before it was anywhere near dome, including one guy who's not rated any other course EVER - and that's a very low review of 1.5 by RoGo3 in 2008, Godard gave it a 3 after only 6 months in the ground and hasn't revised in 4 years. adlacro gave it a 2.5 and the course was 4 months old and no where near completed, don't even play about 13 of those basket locations anymore...
Before Iron was a year old, and no where near done it got 4 reviews under 4, since it has 2 reviews under 4, both because those individuals were out gunned and couldn't throw far enough to see the real beauty of its designed doglegs and risk/reward shots...
I just shocked nobody has mentioned Iron as a potential top 10 course.

This brings up a good point that I'm sure has been discussed before. Should reviews drop off the average after a certain amount of time to account for aging/maturing/deteriorating courses? The Woods at Beauty Hill would likely be the top rated course in NH, except that in its earlier years it had beat instep crap trap baskets. They replaced them with the top of the line Innova baskets a few years ago and have seen many a 4 and 4.5 review since. Courses change, so why should a course be brought down or boosted by reviews that are irrelevant?

 

[BraveThrower43]

I'm kinda surprised that Iron Hill was only mentioned twice in this whole thread, once as a comparision for long courses, and the other time for being highest SSA in the country.

Its reviews are high, except for 2-3 very on guys that poorly rated the course before it was anywhere near dome, including one guy who's not rated any other course EVER - and that's a very low review of 1.5 by RoGo3 in 2008, Godard gave it a 3 after only 6 months in the ground and hasn't revised in 4 years. adlacro gave it a 2.5 and the course was 4 months old and no where near completed, don't even play about 13 of those basket locations anymore...
Before Iron was a year old, and no where near done it got 4 reviews under 4, since it has 2 reviews under 4, both because those individuals were out gunned and couldn't throw far enough to see the real beauty of its designed doglegs and risk/reward shots...
I just shocked nobody has mentioned Iron as a potential top 10 course.

Thats what happens with courses like that. People go out there and get there taints handed to them and they rate a course bad or say its horrible.

 

[prerube]

Thats what happens with courses like that. People go out there and get there taints handed to them and they rate a course bad or say its horrible.

Correct. It is hard to have fun when you are getting beaten up by the course. For a course like Iron Hill you really need to go in expecting to get your butt handed to you. If you are going ot review it, it is probably best not to keep score. Even then it is very hard to be truely impartial.

 

[the_lung]

I'm kinda surprised that Iron Hill was only mentioned twice in this whole thread, once as a comparision for long courses, and the other time for being highest SSA in the country.

Its reviews are high, except for 2-3 very on guys that poorly rated the course before it was anywhere near dome, including one guy who's not rated any other course EVER - and that's a very low review of 1.5 by RoGo3 in 2008, Godard gave it a 3 after only 6 months in the ground and hasn't revised in 4 years. adlacro gave it a 2.5 and the course was 4 months old and no where near completed, don't even play about 13 of those basket locations anymore...

adlacro was also a complete nooB at that time who couldn't throw 150 feet, and really had no clue whatsoever about course design, or even disc golf in general, back then. His reviews were almost universally loathed, and I think that it was partly due to reviews like his which were the impetus for Tim instilling the "Only Trusted Reviewers" filter option here at DGCR.

It looks like adlacro moved to Massachusetts back in 2010, and it also looks like his reviews have gotten much better. :thmbup:

 

[mndiscg]

This brings up a good point that I'm sure has been discussed before. Should reviews drop off the average after a certain amount of time to account for aging/maturing/deteriorating courses? The Woods at Beauty Hill would likely be the top rated course in NH, except that in its earlier years it had beat instep crap trap baskets. They replaced them with the top of the line Innova baskets a few years ago and have seen many a 4 and 4.5 review since. Courses change, so why should a course be brought down or boosted by reviews that are irrelevant?

I agree. There are so many courses like that. Also, many courses are reviewed before they are even completed and they are reviewed lower than they otherwise would be.

 

[hawk12]

These are great points being made for "recent/relevant"'reviews on courses. I guess inwas siting Iron examples as I am most familiar with that course and when each improvements were made.
Those early ratings really burn me up, as much of the work was done by friends and those early reviews really bring down the statistical average.

As I've taken on a new course this year - I waited till most of the front 9 was mostly complete (except for tee signs and better tee pad material) before putting baskets in the ground. Just trying to avoid weak early reviews. And I gave my new project a 2.5 till those tee signs and pads are improved. Which will hPpen Sunday. But keeping honest and as impartial as a reviewer should, I left room to improve the course & review... Knowing I'd be doing just that.

For older reviews on courses that are far travel distances is a big issue for reviewers to update after improvements are made...
How can we & this site get a handle on this difference?

 

[culinarywiz]

Road Trip plan: Fly into MSP, play BRP, Bryant, Kaposia at the minimum then drive to the Stevens Point area and play Standing Rocks drive North to find Sandy Point then NW to Highbridge. After that you could head back to MSP and fly home or you could go to Duluth-Superior and play both courses at Mont du Lac before heading up to Giant's Ridge.

Just had a 5 day / 12 course disc golf binge that included most of your road trip itinerary.

I flew into MSP and played BRP, Bryant then Koposia. Then drove into Highbridge and played Blueberry, Granite, Woodland, Gold, Bear. Then drove to Mont du Lac and played White Cedar and Eagles Peak. Then drove back into Minneapolis to play The Valley and Elm Creek.

Kick ass trip! You clued me into Mont du Lac. White Cedar was one of the most unique and rustic coursed I have played. Fantastic. Thank you !

 

[bholy08]

the one in MS is awesome and i can't wait to get back there! great course

i can't wait to get to Selah also. and if either course warrants less than a 5, i will gladly be the one to do it.

Yeah really one of the best in MS!