Traveler vs. Resident - Importance of Signs?

[DavidSauls]

Which is why I conditioned my response with "in my experience". Which includes a lot of play on beginner-friendly courses (Earlewood & Crooked Creek), and owning a disc golf store where I meet a ton of new players.

If it's an issue for people trying out disc golf on their own, it's probably mainly at multi-use parks, parks in residential neighborhood, and school grounds.

 

[Rondpitt]

My experience is that the overwhelming number of first-time disc golfers are brought to the course by friends who already play, and this is not an issue for them, nor a barrier to the growth of disc golf. As they venture out to try other area courses, or eventually to become disc golf travelers, it can be a major hassle; but by that point they're hooked.

Then again, in my non-black-and-white world, there's always middle ground. Somewhere between the few courses where I never did find some holes, and the one with a QR code on each sign that can give you a tour of it, are the bullk of courses I've played.

When I am traveling all I can do is SearchAndWhine or FindAndPraise, but at home I can actually DO something. There is not much I can do about a poorly marked course that I encounter on the road, but that course belongs to somebody. I suggest we take care of what is ours and challenge others to do the same. Take my challenge Dave and then get back with me. Once again, either our courses are accessible or they are not.


My challenge.
Let's make it personal. At your home course --- can a FirstTimer find all 18 tees and targets in order? Go ahead, I challenge to you take a non-discgolfer to your home course and let them take you around the course.


Thanks,
Ron

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I think Brad and Mash pretty much said anything I felt on the subject in posts 2 & 3.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I think Brad and Mash pretty much said anything I felt on the subject in posts 2 & 3.

That said, I see no reason to spend the money for elaborate, full color hole layout type of signs. Sure they look great, until Sharpie Dude decides to embellish them. Plus they're more difficult to update if the hole changes. Simple 4x4 Post with hole #, distance and simple line works great, costs less, and is pretty easy to replace for course updates or vandalism.

All a tee marker needs to do is let you know:
"Hey, there's a tee here! It's # 6, 345 ft, and the pin's thataway."

If it's a blind hole, a full color tee sign isn't gonna give me a good enough idea of what window I need to hit to set up the next shot - I still gotta walk the fairway.

I suppose it'd be good to know what's OB, but on most holes/courses, it's usually just the standard fair: roads, trails/paths, water.

 

[HeavyCritters]

5 years ago I would have agreed with that, but lately I've seen a huge number of people out to try it without any experienced player showing them around. I especially see a lot of families show up together and it's obvious none of them have played before. I've watched several of those groups give up and leave a hole or two into our poorly marked course when I couldn't catch them to show them around.

Agreed. Our course is pretty intuitive from the get-go, but I have seen a lot of families out throwing some discs and *GASP* frisbees together who have obviously never played the game before.

 

[DavidSauls]

When I am traveling all I can do is SearchAndWhine or FindAndPraise, but at home I can actually DO something. There is not much I can do about a poorly marked course that I encounter on the road, but that course belongs to somebody. I suggest we take care of what is ours and challenge others to do the same. Take my challenge Dave and then get back with me. Once again, either our courses are accessible or they are not.
My challenge.
Let's make it personal. At your home course --- can a FirstTimer find all 18 tees and targets in order? Go ahead, I challenge to you take a non-discgolfer to your home course and let them take you around the course.


Thanks,
Ron

ME??? Well, strictly speaking, my home course has no such problem at all---there has never been a first-time player trying to navigate it.*

If courses must be one or the other, I'd say at least 90% of the courses I've played were accessible. Some frustrating, of course. But I don't accept that it's an either/or proposition.

Your general point, though, is well taken. We should strive to make our courses easier to navigate, by better signage or available maps or both. It's too easy to be so familiar with our local courses that we forget this. Of the two nearby public courses I play the most, one has a basic 18-hole layout that's very easy to navigate; plus a 9-hole additional loop that's a bit tougher. The other would be pretty easy for a first-timer, with only 2 possible places for confusion. (Alas, one of these is finding Hole 1).


* - I cheated a bit here. It's a private course that requires a guide the first time out or, in a pinch, we'll hand someone a map and verbal instructions. It's also a very challenging course, unsuitable for beginners.

 

[Axx3d]

I travel a bit for a living and i always have my discs.. If i pull up to a course with no signage i will turn around and find one that does. It int worth my time to learn a new course i am going to play once or maybe twice. On the other hand if there are people playing or teeing off at 1 or so i'll ask to tage along, I have no been denied the tag along yet

So yes.. id say signage is very important, should show even the baics.. distance and next tee would be nice..

 

[wake911]

I don't care about signs. They are a nice bonus, but I'd much rather see a cool course in the ground without signs than a crappy course with sweet signs.

 

[Dave242]

I don't care about signs. They are a nice bonus, but I'd much rather see a cool course in the ground without signs than a crappy course with sweet signs.

Ding Ding Ding!

Courses are about the fun/challenging airways they provide for me to try to throw my disc down successfully. If it has that and is pretty and secluded....it gets a very high rating from me. I do like good online maps a lot though.

A good course is good for what? Playing. A good course will want to make me come back. A bad one won't. Signs do not play into that decision-making process because if I come back I will know the navigation. If you are hung up on distances a lot, you can pace them off and record them.

Signs are amenities that are helpful to some, but have absolutely bearing on how I rate a course. Well, unless the par is listed incorrectly on the signs. Then I dock the course 1-2 DGCR discs.

 

[mashnut]

ME??? Well, strictly speaking, my home course has no such problem at all---there has never been a first-time player trying to navigate it.*

If courses must be one or the other, I'd say at least 90% of the courses I've played were accessible. Some frustrating, of course. But I don't accept that it's an either/or proposition.

Your general point, though, is well taken. We should strive to make our courses easier to navigate, by better signage or available maps or both. It's too easy to be so familiar with our local courses that we forget this. Of the two nearby public courses I play the most, one has a basic 18-hole layout that's very easy to navigate; plus a 9-hole additional loop that's a bit tougher. The other would be pretty easy for a first-timer, with only 2 possible places for confusion. (Alas, one of these is finding Hole 1).


* - I cheated a bit here. It's a private course that requires a guide the first time out or, in a pinch, we'll hand someone a map and verbal instructions. It's also a very challenging course, unsuitable for beginners.

I certainly agree that it's not a black/white issue. There are some courses where signage is totally unnecessary and though I might still mention the lack of signage in my review it doesn't affect the rating a bit. Stoney Hill is one example, since it's guide only the first time so the lack of signs doesn't affect traveling players like me and doesn't turn new players away from the sport. I've also seen great beginner pitch n putt courses where every pin is visible and obvious and there was no possible way to get lost and it's no issue there either in my opinion.

 

[Dave242]

A map is a wonderful tool. I wish that it was easier for newbies to locate the maps on the course pages here. I think instead of "Links/Files" tab, put a link on the course page directly to the map, like the link to the GPS coordinates. (I know it's one click instead of two...but it helps )

I don't think I've ever gotten lost on a new course when I had a good map.

Great idea to make maps more visible and more easily accessibly here.

This might be the post that ends up making the most difference in this entire thread. I'm going to put this quote into the suggestions area.

 

[Future_Primitive]

A map is a wonderful tool. I wish that it was easier for newbies to locate the maps on the course pages here. I think instead of "Links/Files" tab, put a link on the course page directly to the map, like the link to the GPS coordinates. (I know it's one click instead of two...but it helps )

I don't think I've ever gotten lost on a new course when I had a good map.

That would be helpful for any Google'rs or new members. :thmbup:

I know I use the heck out of it myself when I head out to a new course. Find as much details as I can the night before so I dont waste any time the day of finding the next hole. It is frustrating not being able to find your way around a course after you have driven out of your way to play it.

I usually gather up a course map, scorecard and driving directions in case my GPS has any issues along the way. That way I am ready to enjoy a fun round of golf at a new course. :clap:

 

[mashnut]

Maps on the course pages are huge, I use them constantly, and often download all the ones that I might be playing on a trip to the phone so I can still access them without internet. That helps us traveling players a ton. It still doesn't help the brand new family who can't find hole 3 so they give up. If your course has a nice map online, print and laminate it and post it at your course. Something as simple as that can go a long way.

 

[Dave242]

Yup - I often will snap a picture of the map on the Kiosk and doing that has come in handy a few times as a navigation aid.

Before I had a camera-phone, I would jot down the "clock position" (9 is right angle left, 1 is slight right, 12 is dead ahead, 7 is backtrack to the left, etc) of the next tee as seen when looking down the fairway I just completed.

 

[ZAMson]

Should be noted as part of the discussion -- great signs don't yet exist for DG. Some fairly decent ones, ones that do the job, ones that impress people who haven't seen a great one or even a very decent one.... but there are no great signs yet. Great signs would do a lot for the game.

Now commence posting some sorta-decent signs that impress you

 

[mashnut]

Should be noted as part of the discussion -- great signs don't yet exist for DG. Some fairly decent ones, ones that do the job, ones that impress people who haven't seen a great one or even a very decent one.... but there are no great signs yet. Great signs would do a lot for the game.

Now commence posting some sorta-decent signs that impress you

Good to great signs are awesome, I'm always really impressed when obvious effort has gone into signs and they're informative and accurate. I think that it's more important to push for all courses to have basic signage than it is to focus on improving on the ones that already have good signage.

 

[iacas]

It occurs to me that basket makers could add a locking "arrow" to the top of baskets to point the way to the next tee. If you have multiple basket locations, you unlock the arrow, twist it to the new orientation, and lock it in place again.

Of course, you could easily add something like this to an existing basket, but if it doesn't lock, some idiot might point it in the wrong direction just to screw with people.

I think Zach's right: nobody's seen a truly great sign.

 

[1978]

If you scare away a first time player because of poor signage we all lose. Its not just about the traveler. Most travelers will spend additional time looking for the holes. Beginners wont. Always have some type of directional signage...it is so easy and cheap to do...just takes a small tiny amount of effort by "someone." Tee signs with distances, not quite as important but still good to have.

 

[Dave242]

If you scare away a first time player because of poor signage we all lose.

Not those among us who want fewer people on the courses.

 

[markmcc]

All a tee marker needs to do is let you know:
"Hey, there's a tee here! It's # 6, 345 ft, and the pin's thataway."

I agree. The course that caused me to start this thread would have benefited greatly from just a 4x4 post at each tee with a hole # and distance. Anything beyond that would be gravy. With small concrete pads sitting down in lush mowed grass, any sort of an upright marker would have been a plus.