Tourneys: Why do people TD and Volunteer?

[JC17393]

Some of the best pieces of advice for TD's I can give;

#1 Whatever you choose to do, and decisions you make, make it final. Don't ask players what they want for format, players pack etc, you'll get torn in 10 different directions and seem like a person who can't make up their mind. No one likes a TD who can't make a choice.

#2 Know the rules of the game, and enforce the rules of the game. You aren't there, in a sanctioned tournament, to be buddy-buddy with everyone so that they can walk all over you because you are "soft". Be kind, have respect for everyone there, and treat everyone justly.

#3 Get all your paperwork, facebook pages, and signups done EARLY and with FAQ's up for everyone to see. Don't bend over backwards the last 1-2 days before a tournament, when lazy people call/text/email you at all hours of the day trying to figure out how to signup. Copy/paste the link into the text or email, and tell them where to find it. Don't coddle them just because they decided to call you at 1130PM and then get mad because you won't spoon feed them all the details. I would HEAVILY advise you put up a refund policy (especially for non-sanctioned tournaments). If someone pre-pays for a non-sanctioned tournament, and doesn't show and doesn't contact me in any way to say they aren't coming, then they get a players pack and zero refund. If the tournament fills up, they lose their spot, they lose their players pack, and get 1/2 refund. If you put this out there in big bold letters, well ahead of time, you'll be just fine.

#4 If you have a tournament larger than 20 people, DON'T PLAY IN IT. No one likes to wait around for the TD to finish to get paid out. Nothing irks me more than sitting by TD central, with 50 other people, doing nothing because the TD is out playing and nothing can be done until they get back. Make sure you have a Co-TD to help you out. And "pay them" in merch.

#5 "Pay" your help. For some reason TD's get flack for paying help in cash. But if you give them 20-60 bucks in merch it's no big deal. Did someone volunteer? Give them $25 in credit, do you have a Co-TD? At least triple that. If players have a problem with that, tell them to volunteer next time, and ask for 10 hours of their life on a prime weekend day. If they still argue, don't even mind them. Happy help = a better run tournament = happy players = better run tournaments in the future.

Great list, but I do quibble a bit with #4. I think a good, experienced TD can handle playing and running a tournament with more than 20 people. Some can handle running a full 72 or 90 player tournament while also participating.

The way I see it, if the TD is still out on the course playing, so are a whole bunch of other players as well. Even if the TD isn't playing, he's not going to hand out prizes and such until everybody is done playing and their cards are turned in. So no one should be waiting around getting upset they can't get their payout because the TD's still on the course.

Now if they're waiting because the TD didn't have that stuff prepped in advance and had to figure it all out after he finishes his round? Okay, that's bordering on uncool, but only if the delay is significantly longer than it would have been otherwise. Even a non-playing TD isn't going to have an instantaneous turnaround once the cards start coming in after the final round.

But that leads me to another minor pet peeve regarding the end of the day...people in a rush to leave. Yeah, we all have lives to live, but to me, if you've committed to playing the tournament, you're committing to see it through to the end. If you plan to win something, you should plan to have to stick around for awards to get it if/when you do win it.

I get that some folks have long drives or families or whatever, but the expectation shouldn't be that the TD should accommodate your wanting to leave early by having your payout ready when you want it rather than ready in time for awards. So if you want to grab your prize and go, ask politely and be prepared to be told "no" or "not yet". Most TDs in my experience are quite accommodating when approached the right way (myself included), but odds are very good that the TD (and staff) are trying to get 50 things done at once to get awards rolling and requesting an early cash-out is just making it 51 things they're trying to do. It's silly to expect them to drop everything else they're doing just so that you can slip out 20 minutes faster than anyone else.

Oh, and if you're going to be the "can I grab my prize/trophy early" guy, make sure you actually leave before the awards start. Nothing more irksome than to have a player ask for an early cash-out, and then see him still lingering in the parking lot after the actual awards ceremony is over (or cat-calling during the awards...way worse).

 

[discgman]

But that leads me to another minor pet peeve regarding the end of the day...people in a rush to leave. Yeah, we all have lives to live, but to me, if you've committed to playing the tournament, you're committing to see it through to the end. If you plan to win something, you should plan to have to stick around for awards to get it if/when you do win it.

Another pet peeve is the awards ceremonies that drag into the late night hours. I am always patient when playing tournaments and I normally wait for my prize money/trophy or have someone else get it for me. I totally get the time it takes to finish a tournament and prep all the prizes and trophies (which should be prepped a few nights before to save any TD anguish). But dont decide to do a putting tournament and raffle and expect everyone to stay late. Especially on a Sunday night.

Don't bend over backwards the last 1-2 days before a tournament, when lazy people call/text/email you at all hours of the day trying to figure out how to signup.

This relates to my payout pet peeve. As a TD, do not ever allow same day or late registration on day of a big tournament (80 plus people). Pre reg is a necessity these days. It screws up the pre-made payouts and enables the procrastinators who will bitch about not getting a players package. And if you did your cards ahead of time, you have to scramble to get them in a card and put their name on that fancy board you worked so hard to fix up.

TD - Thankless Unpaid Cat herder

 

[JC17393]

Another pet peeve is the awards ceremonies that drag into the late night hours. I am always patient when playing tournaments and I normally wait for my prize money/trophy or have someone else get it for me. I totally get the time it takes to finish a tournament and prep all the prizes and trophies (which should be prepped a few nights before to save any TD anguish). But dont decide to do a putting tournament and raffle and expect everyone to stay late. Especially on a Sunday night.

No doubt, long drawn out post-tournament stuff is a pain. As a player, I loathe rings of fire and putting contests and whatever other ancillary stuff that is "planned" as a distraction to cover the time needed to total scores and set up prizes for awards. I say "planned" because it inevitably gets forgotten about and started way later than it should, so instead of a distraction during the normal waiting around, it's the cause of a longer delay.

 

[ejvogie]

Any side games should be run BETWEEN rounds. Our Rings of fire usually start about 20 minutes before 2nd round tee-off.

One exception I would make is if you do some sort of 2 round CTP (1st round qualifiers, 2nd round is the prize round).

 

[DavidSauls]

No doubt, long drawn out post-tournament stuff is a pain. As a player, I loathe rings of fire and putting contests and whatever other ancillary stuff that is "planned" as a distraction to cover the time needed to total scores and set up prizes for awards. I say "planned" because it inevitably gets forgotten about and started way later than it should, so instead of a distraction during the normal waiting around, it's the cause of a longer delay.

It doesn't have to be.

Pre-awards is a GREAT time to run side contest, because no matter what, it takes time to sort things out and ready for the awards. This is my favorite time to do it, either as a player or a TD.

But.

It needs a volunteer, who is not involved in scorekeeping, to run it. When we've done such things, we blow them to a halt when we walk out to start the awards, so there's no delaying of anyone.

 

[Royal Hill]

There is another great and valuable reason for the after event mini game (besides filling time)

The smile factor. It's a real thing. Watch next time. The number of players that come back into tourney central with downer faces - either because of their play, or their perception of their play. The discouraged numbers are actually pretty sizable. They are often seeking out company, seeing who else did terrible.

Thrown in even one simple CTP to "that basket over there", ideally run by a non TD volunteer... And BOOM...Smiles are back.

Take some time and notice the effect. Strange but true.

Yet as I've said before, the only thing that gives better smiles to effort ratio than that - is ice cream.

 

[davetherocketguy]

TD - Thankless Unpaid Cat herder

HAHAHAHA!!!!

:hfive:

 

[DavidSauls]

There is another great and valuable reason for the after event mini game (besides filling time)

The smile factor. It's a real thing. Watch next time. The number of players that come back into tourney central with downer faces - either because of their play, or their perception of their play. The discouraged numbers are actually pretty sizable. They are often seeking out company, seeing who else did terrible.

Thrown in even one simple CTP to "that basket over there", ideally run by a non TD volunteer... And BOOM...Smiles are back.

Take some time and notice the effect. Strange but true.

Yet as I've said before, the only thing that gives better smiles to effort ratio than that - is ice cream.

Very true.

Done well, these kind of things elevate a tournament from the "same ole'" to something a little more memorable.

Which brings me back to the original question of Why do people TD... and on to Why do people keep TDing..... There's something to the drive and challenge to try to get all the details right, to create an event that's better than last year's, better than other area events.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

It doesn't have to be.

Pre-awards is a GREAT time to run side contest, because no matter what, it takes time to sort things out and ready for the awards. This is my favorite time to do it, either as a player or a TD.

But.

It needs a volunteer, who is not involved in scorekeeping, to run it. When we've done such things, we blow them to a halt when we walk out to start the awards, so there's no delaying of anyone.

Exactly.

There is NO WAY to have awards 100% ready until AFTER all the cards are in, checked and tallied to the scoreport.

You can stuff envelopes with cash during the final round because any ties can be handed two(or 3-4)envelopes and told to split the $$ equally.
The Am side is a bit more complex if you're awarding funny money. Online codes need to be assigned to names and dollar figures assigned to that. THIS TAKES TIME.

Ring of Fire or a CTP throw-off for an unclaimed ace pot are a GREAT distraction for the players so they're not hovering around the TD while he works.

Oh and a HUGE TD pet peeve I have........... people that signed up to play KNOWING they'll be at the park all day and still beg for their payouts 10 min after they hand their card in because they have a "long drive ahead".

 

[JC17393]

Since I started the "side games suck" tangent, I just want to be clear that I understand their function and have no problem with the concept at all (and have run an occasional tournament where one was employed). It's only when they're not started promptly and/or are kept running long after the TD is ready to start awards (often indicated by the TD's presence and/or participation in the activity) that they become a nuisance. The TD who will put a halt to the games immediately when he's ready for awards gets two thumbs up from me...I just haven't run across too many of them.

And BTW, my peeve about side games isn't limited to when they delay awards. I've been to more than one tournament where a side game between rounds delayed the start of the next round because there was still a line of people waiting to play. Rather than just say the contest was to be continued following the next round, they kept going until people stopped buying in.

I'm not a fan of rushing for the sake of rushing, but I am a big fan of efficiency. The less standing/sitting around waiting, the better...for everyone.

 

[HB553]

I started TDing events to have one to play in with out traveling in 1978. That event is now the largest event in the world most years, and I have been TDing it the last few years to insure quality and consistence is reflected for my home club and countless of volunteers who take a week off for one great time. I volunteer all my time for this massive undertaking . . . . and appreciate the gratitude shown my almost all players in town for the week.

A currently TD a number of other events to introduce the sport to the community where I design courses as a service after the sale (c-tier typically, and give a basket to who ever sets the course record). These cost me time and money - but I do it as a service to the city that paid me for a course design and/or installation.

I also run a number of events (including two pro a-tiers) in communities that can obtain excellent sponsorship funds and/or help with my travel expenses. These events are all run with professional staff, experienced course officials, and all of them get paid if they will take the money, and any food or travel covered. I do make a profit on prizes and pro shop sales, but the love of the sport has not worn off with me even if my joints have worn out making play hard.

There is a place in this sport for both volunteer and professional TDs, just as there is a place for volunteer and professional course designers - and like most things in life you get what you pay for.

Best advice for other TDs: Say what you will do, and do what you said. Managing expectations by full details up front with no changes, and posting information on site during the event such as round 2 start times and all prize payouts while round 1 is in progress. Upload scores to PDGA.com as soon as the last card is checked and posted - nothing like seeing your round ratings during lunch!

Pet Peeve: announcing that round 2 will be 1 hour after the last card is in . . . . meaning I have no idea when the next round starts unless I wait around until the last card comes in - may be a few minutes or a hour or so until that happens.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

The same guy runs all my post-event games and we keep in eye/ear contact so it ends when awards are ready. Pretty simple.

 

[discgman]

Side games are fine, great way of adding extra cash. But there should be a limit between rounds without delaying the next rounds and without delaying the payout. Great way to distract the players from hovering the TD.

New pet peeve....the payout skeptic. Who questions the payout structures and grills the TD on social media sites without directly asking the TD. I am guilty as anyone else of bitching about payouts, until I realize where all the costs really go to behind the scenes.

 

[mfcastillo17]

Work in recreation as well! :hfive:

Me three!

 

[DavidSauls]

@JC17393

Luckily for me, I haven't run into side games that delayed the awards, and certainly not any that delayed rounds. That's awful.

Though until recently a local tournament held field games (distance, accuracy, MTA) for a combined event tournament, and they once delayed the 4th round for an hour and a half. Happily, this year they're going to a disc-golf-only event.

 

[mfcastillo17]

For my next sanctioned event I'm going to give pro players the option of receiving their payout through paypal for those who don't want to stick around for awards. A courteous TD in Colorado extended that option to me before a long drive home and I really appreciated it. Let's see how it works.

Ams on the other hand don't really have an option but to wait for their payout because there is no way in hell I'm shipping stuff to people post event.

 

[DavidSauls]

Pet Peeve: announcing that round 2 will be 1 hour after the last card is in . . . . meaning I have no idea when the next round starts unless I wait around until the last card comes in - may be a few minutes or a hour or so until that happens.

I actually prefer this to a fixed time.

I have learned to post the next round time somewhere prominent, so I don't have to answer 31 questions about "what time does the next round start?" I've gone to answering, "Whatever time the sign says".

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

I actually prefer this to a fixed time.

I have learned to post the next round time somewhere prominent, so I don't have to answer 31 questions about "what time does the next round start?" I've gone to answering, "Whatever time the sign says".

I post 45 min after you hear a horn blast(last card arrived). That way less people are hanging around talking numbers while we're trying to double check cards.

 

[JC17393]

For my next sanctioned event I'm going to give pro players the option of receiving their payout through paypal for those who don't want to stick around for awards. A courteous TD in Colorado extended that option to me before a long drive home and I really appreciated it. Let's see how it works.

Ams on the other hand don't really have an option but to wait for their payout because there is no way in hell I'm shipping stuff to people post event.

That is an awesome idea. I'm going to have to consider that in the future.

Funny about the am payout. At a few events I've played recently, the am payout has been done via gift certs to an online retailer. So the ams don't actually walk away with anything, they receive the redeemable code in an email a day or two later. Makes for some awkward exchanges at award time when the TD reads off the winners or the top 3 in the am divisions, and the players don't know if they should walk up and shake the TD's hand, just wave an acknowledgement from the crowd, or do nothing at all.

 

[DavidSauls]

I post 45 min after you hear a horn blast(last card arrived). That way less people are hanging around talking numbers while we're trying to double check cards.

I've never heard of that. Superb idea.

(Nowadays, the only tournaments I'm running are at Stoney Hill, which is so remote that no one leaves the property for lunch, so they're hanging around, anyway. We run them from my house, and I post a sign on the outside saying "NEXT ROUND: ". When I know the exact time, I walk outside and write it in.)