This course killed me at Michigan State Championships. It is a beautiful course, but I could not rate it over 4.
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Courses EVERYONE loves except... You
- Thread starter The Happy Gilmore
- Start date
This course killed me at Michigan State Championships. It is a beautiful course, but I could not rate it over 4.
timj5304
Double Eagle Member
Well the am worlds layout was crappy, going from hole 1 to 4 basket, skipping some good birdie chances and a tougher than appears birdie on 4, they shorten hole 10 50 or so ft so it goes from gaining a stroke on the field getting a 2, to losing one if you don't birdie it. Combining 20 and 21, both tougher 3s that take good placement shots to score well, to combining them and ruining people's rounds. KP is a course that is runner to just play as is.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Wa-wa.
Whistler's Bend... everything after the top of the world shot (Hole 14) is mediocre / terrible... and that's no way to finish out what otherwise would be a great disc golf course.
DeLa... In my opinion is just a collection of 27 Par 3's with an amazing finisher that everyone goes so crazy over that they forgot the rest of the course was fairly regular.
Lincoln Ridge... It was beautiful and all, but no where near the same ballpark as Idlewild and Mt. Airy.
Probably some others...
DSCJNKY
DeLa... In my opinion is just a collection of 27 Par 3's with an amazing finisher that everyone goes so crazy over that they forgot the rest of the course was fairly regular.
Lincoln Ridge... It was beautiful and all, but no where near the same ballpark as Idlewild and Mt. Airy.
Probably some others...
DSCJNKY
Johnny Betts
Par Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2010
- Messages
- 158
I don't get all the tacky, man made obstacles, hanging baskets, hole in the ground baskets, artificial greens..., that some of these top rated courses have. Feels like miniature golf.
smarkquart
* Ace Member *
I agree with this, but maybe for a different reason. Hosting Am Worlds is about showing off what the local golfing scene is all about. When courses are altered in such a way that no one, even locals, have played that layout before goes against the idea of hosting. While it was interesting to technically play safari golf on courses I knew well, I did feel bad for those who came from out of town to play courses they have heard of and they do not even get to play the layouts that made them famous. Like you said, you are missing out on Kaposia when you do not get those birdie opportunities to offset those more difficult holes.
Sadly, true. But, boy you should have seen this course in it's heyday. Put in for 2000 Worlds, it was a beast. Great balance, technicality to bring the best of the world to frustration. Playing now seems like visiting an old sick friend....with some questionable relatives hanging around.
I was there when it first opened and it was among my favorites. Visited it only 6 or 7 years later and it was already trashed. You're on the money with this description...
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Both of you guys are off on this. Worlds is about appropriate tournament configurations, not necessarily the daily play layouts. We are fortunate that several of our courses are close to blue level tournament layouts so only a few changes were made on some courses. If you played Emporia the year before, their courses were tricked out with lots of additional OB. If you had never played Kaposia before Worlds, that layout would likely have been rated the the most challenging and appropriate course because it actually turned out that way based on the hole-by-hole stats produced from the event.
All previous Worlds have had one or two courses with SSAs several throws higher than any in the Twin Cities. Kaposia would have been seen as weak relative to its reputation by the out-of-town players if we had played any 18 combo of the regular holes. In fact, we would not have been allowed to play hole 5 in its regular configuration unless we did what we did stacking up three par 4s (26, 27>3, 1>4) in front of it to reduce the stack up there. It worked pretty well but hole 5 still generated a wait near the end of the rounds from what I understand. It turned out that Kaposia was the toughest course (even then only SSA 55) and did a good job spreading the scores among the contenders.
All previous Worlds have had one or two courses with SSAs several throws higher than any in the Twin Cities. Kaposia would have been seen as weak relative to its reputation by the out-of-town players if we had played any 18 combo of the regular holes. In fact, we would not have been allowed to play hole 5 in its regular configuration unless we did what we did stacking up three par 4s (26, 27>3, 1>4) in front of it to reduce the stack up there. It worked pretty well but hole 5 still generated a wait near the end of the rounds from what I understand. It turned out that Kaposia was the toughest course (even then only SSA 55) and did a good job spreading the scores among the contenders.
Weatherford DGC in Texas. Rated 3.76. I absolutely do not want to play it again.2 of the most boring rounds I have ever played. I was not long enough off the tee to have any realistic birdie putts yet the holes were easy enough that you had to really screw up to make bogie. Zero risk/reward. On every hole I would tee off and it didn't really matter much whether my drive was good or not. good tee shot equaled easy approach and gimme par. bad tee shot yielded a little bit harder approach but still easy par. The only way for me to make birdie was to throw in a long one and to make bogie I had to screw up both 1st and 2nd shot and even then usually miss a 50/50 putt.
Mentioned a lot already, but BRP is at the top of this discussion for me. Again, not bad, just not top-10 great to me.
Phantom Falls (Paulie does great work and promotes the game admirably, but this is not even the best of his courses), yet it was top 10 staple for forever.
Winter Park played it rushed in a frigid downpour and skipped a couple holes, which is why I never rated it, but it just did not have the right "feel" to me throughout most holes. I was disappointed and wished I had played Silver Creek instead.
Blueberry Hill, especially if you catch it unmowed (true for all Highbridge courses), was a top 10 when I played it, but I preferred Gold and Granite over it. (still a great course though)
And Hippodrome at the time, (this was before the redesign and I have not made it back), it was fun, but just odd and random.
Phantom Falls (Paulie does great work and promotes the game admirably, but this is not even the best of his courses), yet it was top 10 staple for forever.
Winter Park played it rushed in a frigid downpour and skipped a couple holes, which is why I never rated it, but it just did not have the right "feel" to me throughout most holes. I was disappointed and wished I had played Silver Creek instead.
Blueberry Hill, especially if you catch it unmowed (true for all Highbridge courses), was a top 10 when I played it, but I preferred Gold and Granite over it. (still a great course though)
And Hippodrome at the time, (this was before the redesign and I have not made it back), it was fun, but just odd and random.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2009
- Messages
- 15,729
So very, very true. I describe Cass Benton as "A drug addicted rock star that used to be a headline act, but now screams silently for help."Cass Benton is one that I was disappointed by, it was about a 3.85 at the time of my visit. A bit lower now 3.7 I think, but it's about a 3 even in my estimation.
I like a lot of the holes, but the flow is weird, the maintenance is not great and the non golfers sitting around doing dubious things in and around the course turned me off as well.
Sadly, true. But, boy you should have seen this course in it's heyday. Put in for 2000 Worlds, it was a beast. Great balance, technicality to bring the best of the world to frustration. Playing now seems like visiting an old sick friend....with some questionable relatives hanging around.
smarkquart
* Ace Member *
I cannot back up my personal feelings and my lasting memories of this tournament with statistics. All I know was that I wanted to show off our courses to out-of-towners and I spent a good portion of my time saying how the courses should have been played or what they would have experienced. I guess I can also say that it gave me something to talk to them about.
This year when I try to go to Am Worlds, myself being the out-of-towner this time, I want to play the courses as intended because they were picked for a reason and I want to see them as such as it will likely be the only time I may ever play them. Of course that is just me, and if there is anything we learn from any and all tournaments is that you cannot please everyone.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
You'll get your wish this year because most of the courses in Kalamazoo will be played in their normal configurations with only a couple holes here and there tweaked with just a bit of additional OB. Timber Ridge is a temp course so everything there will be new and temporary.
I will say I heard from several out-of-towners wondering why there were so many complaints from locals regarding our courses. Most would have been happy to have even half as many courses of our caliber in their area. But this is a normal reaction we see at Worlds every year. it's just getting noisier due to social media. The locals want to play the courses as they know them but players visiting would usually like to see tournament appropriate layouts and not provide such a homer advantage.
I will say I heard from several out-of-towners wondering why there were so many complaints from locals regarding our courses. Most would have been happy to have even half as many courses of our caliber in their area. But this is a normal reaction we see at Worlds every year. it's just getting noisier due to social media. The locals want to play the courses as they know them but players visiting would usually like to see tournament appropriate layouts and not provide such a homer advantage.
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Stafford is hyped because it's a very different challenge from all of the other courses within 2 hours of it. Now each hole has 4 pin positions and 2 sets of concrete tees, not sure if it did then?
I can definitely see it being underwhelming from a visitors' standpoint though, it's not a destination course, it's more like "I live in the bay and I'm sick of throwing technical midrange lines, get me some elevation and driver shots stat"
... ugh ... the Hippodrome ... not a fan ... Old Glory is super gimmicky, Hogback is better but has several holes that'll make you shake your head while trying to figure out if there's an actual golf shot other than pure dumb luck that will get you through the super tight fairway to the basket
smarkquart
* Ace Member *
I saw both sides of this at last year's Am Worlds. I played with people who were definitely there for the competition and were thankful for the leveling of the playing field. Others were mildly upset that they did not truly play the courses they have only heard about.
This year I am going for the experience of being the traveler, so I definitely would like to play the course as intended. However, it is not going to ruin my trip if they are altered because if they are in their easiest configuration I am going to get just as wrong of an impression about their courses.
I also agree that the Twin Cities, maybe Minnesota in general, have some of the loudest social media anywhere.
Now you've done it. I dont think everyone LOVES the courses you mentioned...they are just afraid if they say they dont they wont be able to go and experience the vibe.
I'm surprised by all the mentions of Winter Park. I think it just depends on what type of golf you prefer, because I absolutely LOVE Winter Park, especially in the fall.
We weakened both Nevin and Renaissance to reduce whining and playing times for the pros in 2012 Pro Worlds. That was a shame. The Ams got to play most courses in their good layout, except Elon which had a number of shorter tee and pin locations.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
That's the nature of Worlds in its current format. Particularly challenging courses that take long to play, especially if there are more than 1, must be tweaked for speed of play. You're more likely to play the max layouts if you play a weekend tournament there. The irony in the case of Kaposia is it went the other way where the special 18-hole Worlds layout was tougher per hole than the daily 26 hole layout.
