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2015 USADGC
- Thread starter Shooter14
- Start date
matt79d
Par Member
Is there live video of this event?
BgWvDave
Double Eagle Member
Looks like a tight run to the finish. 5ish guys all within striking distance. Should be a good final round
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Personal observation: AB seems like a class act the way he carries himself on the course. Then again, I'm not sure his game's given him an opportunity for a real meltdown. 
Side note: It was a pleasure hosting Notroman and friends for a 2nd year. Perfect houseguests, they're always appreciative, thoughtful, polite, and a helluva lot of fun. Roman and anyone he vouches for have a standing invitation to crash at my place anytime. If he's playing a tourney in your neck of the woods, you might want to reach out to him - you'll be happy you did.
Side note: It was a pleasure hosting Notroman and friends for a 2nd year. Perfect houseguests, they're always appreciative, thoughtful, polite, and a helluva lot of fun. Roman and anyone he vouches for have a standing invitation to crash at my place anytime. If he's playing a tourney in your neck of the woods, you might want to reach out to him - you'll be happy you did.
Star Shark
* Ace Member *
For those saying that Anthony is a mini McBeth. This was posted on these forums some time ago...
Anthony on the left, Paul on the right
Anthony on the left, Paul on the right
The Hammer
* Ace Member *
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AB has pretty much imitated everything McBeth did and still kinda does. Now that he has grown up a little, he is starting to find his own style. He is a great kid, with awesome parents that are very supportive. If he chooses to keep playing DG, he be a major force to be reckoned with. I'm pretty sure I called it about 3 years ago.
matt79d
Par Member
Personal observation: AB seems like a class act the way he carries himself on the course. Then again, I'm not sure his game's given him an opportunity for a real meltdown.
Side note: It was a pleasure hosting Notroman and friends for a 2nd year. Perfect houseguests, they're always appreciative, thoughtful, polite, and a helluva lot of fun. Roman and anyone he vouches for have a standing invitation to crash at my place anytime. If he's playing a tourney in your neck of the woods, you might want to reach out to him - you'll be happy you did.
I lived in Arizona for about 4 years and ran into him a few times on the course and at clinics. I always remembered him as the 12 year old who would kick the dirt if he didn't drive 375+ (that was always the way I described him).. looks like he has grown up a bit.
BgWvDave
Double Eagle Member
Congrats to AB on a solid win and 2 new USADGC records. Kids future is looking very bright!
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I was only spotting hole 2, so I didn't follow him around the course, but he appeared to be pretty composed last year and this year. If you're going to emulate McBeth's game, you might as adopt his composure as well.
clard
Double Eagle Member
Anyone know if someone was shooting video of this?
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There was a guy from Discraft taking stills the top players at various points around the course, and lots of people using phones for stills/video and a few personal video cameras. I don't recall seeing anyone with big time video setup, but it wouldn't surprise me if you see something from the event on You Tube.
Course is dramatically different. I believe the last time I was on the Toboggan was 2011. It has changed for the easier in massive ways - the undergrowth growing back hasn't had any chance to take hold, and isn't even remotely close to as punishing as it once was. I understand that there's a bigger chance to fly through the open spaces and get deep in the woods - but the Toboggan's insanity was always that on many of those holes you could wind up that deep just because you were trying to go over those trees anyway.
In the downpour after yesterday's final round I shot a 59, woulda been a 56 without inside 50' silliness. Was a cash round, and a tight one - so it was a focused round. I've played in those conditions before at the Toboggan and was hard pressed to shoot 65. I played a poor 59. Hole by hole...
Hole 1 - negligible differences
Hole 2 - negligible differences
Hole 3 - right side EASILY more manageable. Not only short, but especially near the pin where errant shots out right could eat up a stroke. Now you're playing out to the pin to drop in your next.
Hole 4 - Way easier. The added distance up to the pin is great. The hole is better than it was before. But it is FAR easier playing up both sides of the fairway.
Hole 5 - Seems negligible, but it was starting to really pour and I don't recall even looking down the left side of it from under my umbrella.
Hole 6 - Strokes easier. The biggest punishment of the old hole was - with the shorter distance to the gap, if you sawed off the drive you were left in the punishing left side schule. Now? If you saw it off you've not only got a more open shot through the left side, but you're also now dumping into the open short of the gap thanks to the help of the added distance. It also makes it harder to get to the best landing spot up the tunnel from the tee (for most): the left side up the tunnel. I pured a drive - about as hard as I want to throw a controlled power drive - and just made it 25 feet up the tunnel. I used to fade inside that tunnel looking for the left side so I could either swing a hyzer through the remaining tunnel, or spike hyzer vertical over the top. Just leaps and bounds easier hole.
Hole 7 - Easier. Not massively. But definitely saves a lot on the errant shots. Guys that are on will still have the same difficulty pulling off the birdie 3, no change to that. But a lot of guys that would have been otherwise pitching out/up after their second shots are now going to be looking at clean looks at the basket or even a birdie putt from spaces from which the basket was inaccessible before.
Hole 8 - Easier, not by a lot. Virtually the same. But you can pitch up for the 3 a bit easier than you used to. But it remains effectively the same hole. Could even be my memory and the hole hasn't changed really aside from some new open views we didn't have from the top before.
Hole 9 - Wow, way easier. Clearing the shrubbery on the left side is HUGE. If you pulled one over anhyzer into the trees at the top of the hill before, you had to navigate to sneak through for a par 3. Now? You've got the straight pitch off the hyzer line, and if you crash that anny line the low level stuff is no longer there to prevent the pitch to the pin.
Hole 10 - REALLY cool. I like the way it looks and feels a lot. Definitely a tougher birdie than it was before. But it is also an easier par than it was before. You just don't get punished the same.
Hole 11 - Effectively the same. An easy deuce.
Hole 12 - Whoa. Still not a simple par 3. But the danger of the 4 is much smaller. When I played 2007 Am Nats I remember shanking one as a mid-field caliber player, winding up in the deep schule immediately down the left side at the bottom of the hill, thanks to a sidearm that was pulled a bit. Now? That doesn't even worry you. Still plenty of danger on this one, but they really toned it down.
Hole 13 - Effectively the same hole. Looks like there's a touch more space around the basket, and a friend of mine got out of the woods a lil easier up the left side, but didn't seem to change play much.
Hole 14 - Looks a lot nicer, but definitely a touch easier. Not easier to deuce, but harder to catch that bogey much like hole 12 in that way.
Hole 15 - Night and day, really wide open. A LOT easier than it was before to card the 3. My buddy Ian carded a 3 on it from a shot that four years ago would have dove hard right into the schule with little more than a pitch out opportunity and then a tough up for a 4.
Hole 16 - Holes 12, 14, 16... the three "2 meter rule" holes... all play at similar difficulty levels when going for that deuce, but all of them are much much harder to bogey now. I nipped off of a tree on this one that would have dove me into the schule short of the basket looking for an out to the pin. Now? I scooted all the way through to fifty shy left of the pin.
Hole 17 - Still felt effectively the same to me. But I always play left to the high ground near one's pin and then power a high straight-to-fade to the pin. So, nothing changed for me there. Didn't take much note of the right side grass/schule. The significant changes to the schule on this hole happened in like 2009... a year too late to save me that late stroke and get me into that playoff in 2008. lol. Thus is life.
Hole 18 - Effectively the same.
Conclusion of all this crap I'm typing while I procrastinate:
On the average the course plays about 4-5 strokes easier overall.
For top players at AmNats there is probably a 1-3 stroke difference, since the lack of schule and issues with bogeys aren't as significant as often.
For the guys at the very bottom you could be looking at a 7-10 stroke difference still.
I had no perspective of how open it was last year and how much "harder" it is than last year, but compared to the last time I was on the Toboggan in 2011? Big BIG difference. I know it only shows as a stroke or two in the ratings compared to some earlier years. But keep in mind that the weather was not ideal this weekend - far from it. Rounds would have been hotter with better weather locally.
I think we saw it Friday, which was a really nice day. Less so as the week went on. But the course plays 8 points per stroke, and we can still see overall a 3 stroke difference in the ratings as compared to 2011 a 56 was 1028, now it looks like it'll come out in about the 1005 range.
In the downpour after yesterday's final round I shot a 59, woulda been a 56 without inside 50' silliness. Was a cash round, and a tight one - so it was a focused round. I've played in those conditions before at the Toboggan and was hard pressed to shoot 65. I played a poor 59. Hole by hole...
Hole 1 - negligible differences
Hole 2 - negligible differences
Hole 3 - right side EASILY more manageable. Not only short, but especially near the pin where errant shots out right could eat up a stroke. Now you're playing out to the pin to drop in your next.
Hole 4 - Way easier. The added distance up to the pin is great. The hole is better than it was before. But it is FAR easier playing up both sides of the fairway.
Hole 5 - Seems negligible, but it was starting to really pour and I don't recall even looking down the left side of it from under my umbrella.
Hole 6 - Strokes easier. The biggest punishment of the old hole was - with the shorter distance to the gap, if you sawed off the drive you were left in the punishing left side schule. Now? If you saw it off you've not only got a more open shot through the left side, but you're also now dumping into the open short of the gap thanks to the help of the added distance. It also makes it harder to get to the best landing spot up the tunnel from the tee (for most): the left side up the tunnel. I pured a drive - about as hard as I want to throw a controlled power drive - and just made it 25 feet up the tunnel. I used to fade inside that tunnel looking for the left side so I could either swing a hyzer through the remaining tunnel, or spike hyzer vertical over the top. Just leaps and bounds easier hole.
Hole 7 - Easier. Not massively. But definitely saves a lot on the errant shots. Guys that are on will still have the same difficulty pulling off the birdie 3, no change to that. But a lot of guys that would have been otherwise pitching out/up after their second shots are now going to be looking at clean looks at the basket or even a birdie putt from spaces from which the basket was inaccessible before.
Hole 8 - Easier, not by a lot. Virtually the same. But you can pitch up for the 3 a bit easier than you used to. But it remains effectively the same hole. Could even be my memory and the hole hasn't changed really aside from some new open views we didn't have from the top before.
Hole 9 - Wow, way easier. Clearing the shrubbery on the left side is HUGE. If you pulled one over anhyzer into the trees at the top of the hill before, you had to navigate to sneak through for a par 3. Now? You've got the straight pitch off the hyzer line, and if you crash that anny line the low level stuff is no longer there to prevent the pitch to the pin.
Hole 10 - REALLY cool. I like the way it looks and feels a lot. Definitely a tougher birdie than it was before. But it is also an easier par than it was before. You just don't get punished the same.
Hole 11 - Effectively the same. An easy deuce.
Hole 12 - Whoa. Still not a simple par 3. But the danger of the 4 is much smaller. When I played 2007 Am Nats I remember shanking one as a mid-field caliber player, winding up in the deep schule immediately down the left side at the bottom of the hill, thanks to a sidearm that was pulled a bit. Now? That doesn't even worry you. Still plenty of danger on this one, but they really toned it down.
Hole 13 - Effectively the same hole. Looks like there's a touch more space around the basket, and a friend of mine got out of the woods a lil easier up the left side, but didn't seem to change play much.
Hole 14 - Looks a lot nicer, but definitely a touch easier. Not easier to deuce, but harder to catch that bogey much like hole 12 in that way.
Hole 15 - Night and day, really wide open. A LOT easier than it was before to card the 3. My buddy Ian carded a 3 on it from a shot that four years ago would have dove hard right into the schule with little more than a pitch out opportunity and then a tough up for a 4.
Hole 16 - Holes 12, 14, 16... the three "2 meter rule" holes... all play at similar difficulty levels when going for that deuce, but all of them are much much harder to bogey now. I nipped off of a tree on this one that would have dove me into the schule short of the basket looking for an out to the pin. Now? I scooted all the way through to fifty shy left of the pin.
Hole 17 - Still felt effectively the same to me. But I always play left to the high ground near one's pin and then power a high straight-to-fade to the pin. So, nothing changed for me there. Didn't take much note of the right side grass/schule. The significant changes to the schule on this hole happened in like 2009... a year too late to save me that late stroke and get me into that playoff in 2008. lol. Thus is life.
Hole 18 - Effectively the same.
Conclusion of all this crap I'm typing while I procrastinate:
On the average the course plays about 4-5 strokes easier overall.
For top players at AmNats there is probably a 1-3 stroke difference, since the lack of schule and issues with bogeys aren't as significant as often.
For the guys at the very bottom you could be looking at a 7-10 stroke difference still.
I had no perspective of how open it was last year and how much "harder" it is than last year, but compared to the last time I was on the Toboggan in 2011? Big BIG difference. I know it only shows as a stroke or two in the ratings compared to some earlier years. But keep in mind that the weather was not ideal this weekend - far from it. Rounds would have been hotter with better weather locally.
I think we saw it Friday, which was a really nice day. Less so as the week went on. But the course plays 8 points per stroke, and we can still see overall a 3 stroke difference in the ratings as compared to 2011 a 56 was 1028, now it looks like it'll come out in about the 1005 range.
Just realized the above should have been on the Toboggan course thread. If that could get moved (and this post deleted) it'd be great.
Here's food for thought:
Will this year's class surpass the talent and accomplishments of the 2010 class of AmNats top finishers?
http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/9646
What happened to Swenson? College? Just stopped playing?
Will this year's class surpass the talent and accomplishments of the 2010 class of AmNats top finishers?
http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/9646
What happened to Swenson? College? Just stopped playing?
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Chris, excellent job on the hole by hole assessment. Much less punishing than before, but still not as forgiving as last year (when the rough was freshly decimated).
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
SSA indicates course was only slightly more than 1 throw tougher in 2010 than this year independent of your hole-by-hole assessment.
puttlikeablowfly
Birdie Member
Year - Winning Score - Runner-Up Score - Appx. SSA (1000 rated) - 900 Rated Round - Points per Throw
2009 - 176 - 177 - 57.7 - 69.6 - 8.39
2010 - 166 - 176 - 57.8 - 69.8 - 8.35
2011 - 176 - 178 - 59.5 - 72.0 - 7.96
2012 - 175 - 176 - 58.5 - 70.6 - 8.20
2013 - 170 - 174 - 58.8 - 71.1 - 8.11
2014 - 171 - 173 - 57.1 - 68.5 - 8.55
2015 - 164 - 169 - 56.9 - 68.6 - 8.56
* 2015 SSA and 900-rated rounds are preliminary and rough average of all three rounds.
The course has clearly played easier in '14 & '15 than it did in the previous three years, with '11 being the toughest, but '09 & '10 were in-between.
2009 - 176 - 177 - 57.7 - 69.6 - 8.39
2010 - 166 - 176 - 57.8 - 69.8 - 8.35
2011 - 176 - 178 - 59.5 - 72.0 - 7.96
2012 - 175 - 176 - 58.5 - 70.6 - 8.20
2013 - 170 - 174 - 58.8 - 71.1 - 8.11
2014 - 171 - 173 - 57.1 - 68.5 - 8.55
2015 - 164 - 169 - 56.9 - 68.6 - 8.56
* 2015 SSA and 900-rated rounds are preliminary and rough average of all three rounds.
The course has clearly played easier in '14 & '15 than it did in the previous three years, with '11 being the toughest, but '09 & '10 were in-between.
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Interesting to see the stats like that. Anyway you slice it, it's a tremendous course that can really make you pay for bad shots... better bring your A game.
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