2016 Am Worlds - Madison, Wi

[1978]

Comparing 2016 AM Worlds to other events is Apples & Oranges. Madison has their slate of courses. Everyone else has a different one.

Madison has been working on prep'ing their courses, staff, volunteers, etc. for well over a year. Asking them to add more courses at the 11th hour is fine, but it reveals how little you know about producing such an event. And expecting them to add more courses at the 11th hour is just silly.

The PDGA probably had a good idea how many invites would go out for 2016 and they approved the Madison bid knowing there was a 576 cap. No one involved in organizing this event, nor most of the players who've participated in the last several years are surprised at this event filling and waitlisting. I do feel sorry for those players who expected this to be their first Worlds and thought registering the next morning would be good enough.

Charlotte Built 10 full courses in 3 years. So 1 or 2 temp courses at a golf course is not impossible...

 

[1978]

Im sure there were a ton of prior discussions, my complaint is it seems like the growth areas really got screwed with this event. Youth and Women. We have enough 20-50 year old men playing the sport...to have a deep waiting list for Advanced women on day 1... Seems like we are missing an opportunity. Hoping the winner of this worlds isnt simply just the person that clicked the fastest, that the best Am's in the world in any division had a real chance to make it in.

 

[bhadella]

IMO the fact that a location won the AM Worlds bid utilizing only 5 courses while shrinking field size by 25% from prior year (576 this year, 752 last year) shows just how much maturing our DG scene needs. Split AM Worlds into two segments (age protected and not) if that is all the capacity available from bidding locations.

 

[1978]

Divisions of 2 &3 youth/senior girls and boys. Only 40 advanced Women, 3 Junior 1!? what a shame.
How is this a worlds championship when most of the divisions have less than 5, 10 for many... players, with no prior screening except for a minimal amount of points.

 

[Darkgreen]

Comparing 2016 AM Worlds to other events is Apples & Oranges. Madison has their slate of courses. Everyone else has a different one.

Madison has been working on prep'ing their courses, staff, volunteers, etc. for well over a year. Asking them to add more courses at the 11th hour is fine, but it reveals how little you know about producing such an event. And expecting them to add more courses at the 11th hour is just silly.
.

I admit that I don't know much about producing such an event, in fact I think I've already said as much. Having said that, I still feel pretty safe in saying two months out is hardly the 11th hour. In any case, it doesn't sound like time is the issue, but rather that other resources are not available.

 

[tonyroberts]

I admit that I don't know much about producing such an event, in fact I think I've already said as much. Having said that, I still feel pretty safe in saying two months out is hardly the 11th hour. In any case, it doesn't sound like time is the issue, but rather that other resources are not available.

Actually, I would say two months out IS the 11th hour. The specifications and parameters for this event were agreed upon months ago. The producers have set up a timeline for getting everything done, and they've been working at that steadily. They still have at least one course expansion in the works and myriad final details. To ask for a major change in the event scope at this time is unfair, not only to the event producers, but to those who will eventually play. Let Madison produce the event it agreed to produce and don't try pushing the event contractors beyond their capabilities.

Clearly there should be discussions about how these events are conceived, set up, organized, and produced, but that is all future work. This one's a done deal.

 

[Pbmercil]

I guess I currently favor tiered registration based on PDGA points. Though ARay raises a valid concern that points are more difficult to come by in certain geographical areas.

Im not a big fan of the idea of points based tiered registration. I'll concede that the points threshold probably needs to be higher to reduce the number of invites, but points tiers drastically favors the guys who can travel to the biggest am events. Everyone already knows the easiest way to qualify is to travel to a BG Ams or GBO sized event and just get all your points right there.

I got my invite for this year by grinding it out at regional stuff because it was what i could afford for both financial and vacation time contraints. I don't think it's really fair to give priority registration to guys who were able to travel (and play well at) one or two of the biggest am events of the year. Under the current system at least we all get treated equally once we hit the 750 invite threshold.

 

[Pbmercil]

I admit that I don't know much about producing such an event, in fact I think I've already said as much. Having said that, I still feel pretty safe in saying two months out is hardly the 11th hour. In any case, it doesn't sound like time is the issue, but rather that other resources are not available.

Lol. If that is the case then feel free to get a course approved, designed, paid for, and built in the next 60 days and get back to us on how it went.

 

[bhadella]

Im not a big fan of the idea of points based tiered registration. I'll concede that the points threshold probably needs to be higher to reduce the number of invites, but points tiers drastically favors the guys who can travel to the biggest am events. Everyone already knows the easiest way to qualify is to travel to a BG Ams or GBO sized event and just get all your points right there.

I got my invite for this year by grinding it out at regional stuff because it was what i could afford for both financial and vacation time contraints. I don't think it's really fair to give priority registration to guys who were able to travel (and play well at) one or two of the biggest am events of the year. Under the current system at least we all get treated equally once we hit the 750 invite threshold.

I prefer the concept of someone having to earning the right to play for a World Championship through good play, not just making a relatively low threshold for points (which 750 is for MA1). The best way to demonstrate good play is beating others in tournaments (which points effectively capture). IMO those who earned more points earned a better place in line for registration.

 

[bhadella]

Actually, I would say two months out IS the 11th hour. The specifications and parameters for this event were agreed upon months ago. The producers have set up a timeline for getting everything done, and they've been working at that steadily. They still have at least one course expansion in the works and myriad final details. To ask for a major change in the event scope at this time is unfair, not only to the event producers, but to those who will eventually play. Let Madison produce the event it agreed to produce and don't try pushing the event contractors beyond their capabilities.

Clearly there should be discussions about how these events are conceived, set up, organized, and produced, but that is all future work. This one's a done deal.

Agreed. As part of the bidding/vetting process they should have recognized that 576 spots is not enough and pushed for an temp course or another course (or multiple courses) be used. Now isn't the time to realize that more capacity was needed.

 

[brutalbrutus]

I prefer the concept of someone having to earning the right to play for a World Championship through good play, not just making a relatively low threshold for points (which 750 is for MA1). The best way to demonstrate good play is beating others in tournaments (which points effectively capture). IMO those who earned more points earned a better place in line for registration.

The guy who finished 90th at BG in rec got 900+ points...

 

[Pbmercil]

I prefer the concept of someone having to earning the right to play for a World Championship through good play, not just making a relatively low threshold for points (which 750 is for MA1). The best way to demonstrate good play is beating others in tournaments (which points effectively capture). IMO those who earned more points earned a better place in line for registration.

The guy who finished 90th at BG in rec got 900+ points...

Exactly. Points are very good at capturing who was able to play in big fields. Sure playing well in those fields helps, but not as much as just showing up in the first place.

 

[ERicJ]

Charlotte Built 10 full courses in 3 years. So 1 or 2 temp courses at a golf course is not impossible...

Three years is with planning aforethought is vastly different than two months spur of the moment.

And I'd rather not play one or two of my Worlds rounds on a hastily thrown together temp course just so we can squeeze more players into the event.

Also the "2016 expansionist" people are missing that things have been planned around a 576 number for a long time. If you want to add a couple courses and bump the player count by 100-150 players... do those additional player packs just appear out of thin air? Maybe a bigger venue needs to be booked for the player meeting now. Where does the staff come from for the additional courses? Pools and schedules now need to be completely reworked. There are a myriad of other details that need to be considered and comprehended beyond just adding a couple temp courses.

Actually, I would say two months out IS the 11th hour. The specifications and parameters for this event were agreed upon months ago. The producers have set up a timeline for getting everything done, and they've been working at that steadily. They still have at least one course expansion in the works and myriad final details. To ask for a major change in the event scope at this time is unfair, not only to the event producers, but to those who will eventually play. Let Madison produce the event it agreed to produce and don't try pushing the event contractors beyond their capabilities.

Clearly there should be discussions about how these events are conceived, set up, organized, and produced, but that is all future work. This one's a done deal.

^^ QFT

Im not a big fan of the idea of points based tiered registration. I'll concede that the points threshold probably needs to be higher to reduce the number of invites, but points tiers drastically favors the guys who can travel to the biggest am events. Everyone already knows the easiest way to qualify is to travel to a BG Ams or GBO sized event and just get all your points right there.

I got my invite for this year by grinding it out at regional stuff because it was what i could afford for both financial and vacation time contraints. I don't think it's really fair to give priority registration to guys who were able to travel (and play well at) one or two of the biggest am events of the year. Under the current system at least we all get treated equally once we hit the 750 invite threshold.

I agree that points based tiered registration isn't ideal. However, if you look at the top point earners it's not typically players that just travel to one big event. Most of them have 10, 20, or 30 events played in a year.

 

[bhadella]

Exactly. Points are very good at capturing who was able to play in big fields. Sure playing well in those fields helps, but not as much as just showing up in the first place.

The guy in 90th place also beat 160 players (hence the points).

I got to play in AM Worlds last year and was shocked by how easy it was to qualify. I played INT in three local tournaments and a our local league to quality. I guess I don't get the "clawing and scratching and fighting" to get to 750 points. If you are willing and planning on playing AM Worlds (a week long commitment of time and resources), playing a either a few larger tournaments (or a bunch of small ones) and beating competitors shouldn't be too much to ask to earn your slot into line for a World Championship.

 

[ERicJ]

The guy who finished 90th at BG in rec got 900+ points...

 

[Pbmercil]

I agree that points based tiered registration isn't ideal. However, if you look at the top point earners it's not typically players that just travel to one big event. Most of them have 10, 20, or 30 events played in a year.

That is fair. But I'm not really talking about small group of guys who are traveling a ton and playing a lot of events. I'm talking about the guys like me who just want to play in a world's and aren't chasing wins/points all year. With the current way points are awarded, if one wanted to get the maximum points to get into a higher tier of registration with the minimum amount of work it would be as simple as playing rec/INT in the 2 or 3 biggest fields in the country. 900-920 rated golf at say BG Ams and GBO gets you a LOT of points, way more then I could get by playing local/regional events

 

[brutalbrutus]

The top listed player in the tie at 91st I was referring to earlier shot 886 and lower for his four rounds.

 

[Darkgreen]

Actually, I would say two months out IS the 11th hour. The specifications and parameters for this event were agreed upon months ago. The producers have set up a timeline for getting everything done, and they've been working at that steadily. They still have at least one course expansion in the works and myriad final details. To ask for a major change in the event scope at this time is unfair, not only to the event producers, but to those who will eventually play. Let Madison produce the event it agreed to produce and don't try pushing the event contractors beyond their capabilities.

Clearly there should be discussions about how these events are conceived, set up, organized, and produced, but that is all future work. This one's a done deal.

Timelines can be changed. There is time to re-work agreements and make new ones. People can be flexible. As I said, if resources are the problem, I understand. Time isn't the problem.

Lol. If that is the case then feel free to get a course approved, designed, paid for, and built in the next 60 days and get back to us on how it went.

I do feel free to do so, a temp course at least, but I don't live in Madison. Lol.

 

[dontBLAMEtheDISC]

I think points is the right direction but what we need is a separate point system for am worlds. It might be a little more work for the pdga.
I think if you finish in the top 10% of the field you should earn am world points.
According to your place finish in the 10% for example
If it's a field of 100 the The top ten would earn points
1st 400
2nd 350
3rd 300
4th 200
5th 150
6th 125
7th 100
8th 75
9th 50
10th 25
And points would be adjusted for field size.
Then for registration for am world's could be tiered. This would ensure that mostly the top players would get spots. And you could have a certain number of spots left at the end of registration for fast mouse clickers.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

 

[Pbmercil]

The guy in 90th place also beat 160 players (hence the points).

I got to play in AM Worlds last year and was shocked by how easy it was to qualify. I played INT in three local tournaments and a our local league to quality. I guess I don't get the "clawing and scratching and fighting" to get to 750 points. If you are willing and planning on playing AM Worlds (a week long commitment of time and resources), playing a either a few larger tournaments (or a bunch of small ones) and beating competitors shouldn't be too much to ask to earn your slot into line for a World Championship.

The top listed player in the tie at 91st I was referring to earlier shot 886 and lower for his four rounds.

Using the BG Ams player example, that person got 984 points for averaging 857 rated disc golf over four rounds. Meanwhile my biggest point score last year was 390 points for averaging 940 rated golf in a much smaller field playing in advanced. But in this example that kid deserves a better shot at a spot in world's because he beat more people then I did, because beating lots of players is proof that they are a good golfer and more deserving of the opportunity to play in a world's? You can't be serious.