Zephyr Cove needs help!!!!!!

[danhyzer]

https://www.change.org/p/douglas-co...re_page&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-no_msg

Sign the petition!

Signed, Pleased keep us posted if theres anything more we can do to save this GREAT Disc Golf Course, Elevated Plastic

PS. Please give my best to Moses, Bud and Stacey if you would. I shared the fairway there @ Zepher Cove with em and several other area courses. Great area hosts. May the course be with you all------------------- - +

 

[onemilemore]

The proposal chosen by Douglas County wasn't the doing of one individual either. It was developedone by a group of players and other community members

But also done without the original course designer and stewards of one of the top courses in the area. I think that's what is off-putting to everyone.

 

[BlazedOrangeHat]

Also, having only played 43 courses, I'm not sure you can make such a bold statement.

Thanks for your opinion, but one doesn't have to play many courses to know just how much better Zephyr Cove is than most courses out there. Out of the 43 I've played, it takes the #1 spot on my list easily... and same with people who have played twice or three times as many courses as me. It's an epic mountain course with jaw-dropping views of Lake Tahoe.

Moving on...

This was posted by Craig Getty, Zephyr Cove DGC designer, on the Friends of Zephyr Cove Disc Golf Course page on Facebook:

"Kylene, Paul and I have never submitted a written proposal. I have worked with only 2 Park Rangers in the last 17 years. I have never met or worked with anyone in the county administration. So here is how the story goes. I met with the current Ranger and talked about expanding and improving the course. Paul Sanchez is very experienced in land use, mapping, disc golf, etc., so I chose Paul to help with further development of the course. He and I were working on adding some new holes to create a 27 hole course. At this time, Mike was brought on to volunteer his graphic art skills for the tee signs only. So of course we needed to walk him through our layout. Once we were given verbal permission to go ahead, Mike insisted that we take more time and review his plan. After seeing some of his design concept (the kids course was not yet bought up), I felt that his ideas were inexperienced at best. I told him that we were moving forward, and I would visit my options for a different graphic artist. Shortly afterwords, the Ranger told me that a "landscape architect" had talked to his boss about concerns of my plan (I have since learned that Mike found, what he conceived as a flaw in my design). So we stopped and waited... I called my contact weekly with no response. After a period of 4 to 6 weeks, I finally called the county administration, to learn that Mr. Plansky had submitted a comprehensive plan that the commission had liked. They were moving forward and wanted me to be apart of the team. I was quite surprised that the county would work with an inexperienced designer without consulting the current experienced designer. So, since I had not seen the plan, I refused to work with a person that would circumvent my ideas to get the Zephyr Cove Design on his resume. I consulted with my team in the Sierra Tahoe Series, and asked for their help and guidance. Paul (the bulldog) did some research, and discovered that they did not make this plan public notice. So, he asked for the proposal and walla, here it is for review."

Now - I'd like to ask the user "tahoe" some questions because he seems to be apart of the Evolve Disc Golf that wants to take over the project and make changes to the course without consent of the original designer.

- First, the very most important... Ultimately, what is your plan? I've read through the proposal and it just seems like a lot of buzz words and rambling on. What are you truly going to do? Modify the current 18 hole layout? Add 9 more holes? Add a kids pitch and putt? Reroute the entire course with adding holes in here and there? Honestly, your proposal is unclear. If you are able to share your thoughts more concisely, people might be on board instead of feeling threatened.

- What are the safety concerns you bring up? Specifically what holes and what issues?

- What are your erosion concerns? Specifically where, what, and how you want to fix it, if they even exist.

- Why do you want to change Zephyr Cove? There are plans of putting in multiple courses on a piece of land in Carson City. Why not jump on board to a fresh project instead of modifying a top-notch course when it is clear the original designer still wants to be in charge of 'his' course.

 

[PWaggoner]

Signed

 

[discRabbit]

Thanks for your opinion, but one doesn't have to play many courses to know just how much better Zephyr Cove is than most courses out there. Out of the 43 I've played, it takes the #1 spot on my list easily... and same with people who have played twice or three times as many courses as me. It's an epic mountain course with jaw-dropping views of Lake Tahoe.

Zephyr is an *average* good course. I'd put it right in the top 15% or so of courses. Its quite good but it isn't going to blow you away and to be a #1 course for a well-traveled player seems suspect. Further, I wouldn't describe it as "epic" at all - this to me again suggests your comparison points are rather limited.

That said, not every course can be #1 - there isn't anything wrong with being really good :thmbup:

 

[BlazedOrangeHat]

Zephyr is an *average* good course. I'd put it right in the top 15% or so of courses. Its quite good but it isn't going to blow you away and to be a #1 course for a well-traveled player seems suspect. Further, I wouldn't describe it as "epic" at all - this to me again suggests your comparison points are rather limited.

That said, not every course can be #1 - there isn't anything wrong with being really good :thmbup:

You guys sure are a tough crowd. I guess being in the "top 15%" makes it an "average good course", whatever that means. Right now DGCR has 4937 courses listed. If it is only in the 85th percentile like you say, that means that there are 740 courses that you say are better than it. Currently, the 25th ranked course based on ratings is Whistler's Bend in Roseburg, OR with a rating of 4.54 based on 52 reviews. Zephyr Cove is rated 4.26 based on 37 reviews. 740 courses minus the top 25 leaves 715 courses that would have to be rated between 4.54 and 4.26. I find that very far from plausible. I think the numbers prove that Zephyr Cove is easily a top 10% course, if not better.

Just because I haven't played every course on Earth doesn't mean I haven't seen loads of pictures and videos of other courses to compare it to. The fact that you have had to play 600+ courses for it to not be considered super epic to you actually proves that the course IS very nice. How many people have actually played that many courses!? To most everyone who hasn't travelled the entire country playing disc golf in every single state and at every top-rated course in the United States it is something special.

Zephyr Cove IS epic. I'm factoring in more than just the disc golf, which is of high quality... but add in the scenery of Lake Tahoe and the surrounding mountains that are breath-taking and that makes it even better for me.

Anyway, let's get back on subject and discuss the changes that may or may not be happening at Zephyr...

 

[BlazedOrangeHat]

Patrick Brown at the signature hole 15 downhill bomber at sunset:

 

[BlazedOrangeHat]

Well, what was a hyperbole in my original post about Zephyr being very unique and epic was decided to be taken as fact by you guys and I have to say you've piqued my interest. Without further ado...

I went a little deeper and looked at the top rated courses for each state and tallied up a list of courses that were equal to or greater than a rating of 4.26, which is what Zephyr Cove is rated. Here is what I found --

Disc Golf Course Ratings >=4.26

Alabama: 1
Alaska: 1
Arizona: 0
Arkansas: 1
California: 6
Colorado: 5
Connecticut: 0
Delaware: 0
Florida: 0
Georgia: 2
Hawaii: 0
Idaho: 0
Illinois: 4
Indiana: 1
Iowa: 4
Kansas: 0
Kentucky: 5
Louisiana: 0
Maine: 2
Maryland: 1
Massachusetts: 1
Michigan: 5
Minnesota: 4
Mississippi: 0
Missouri: 2
Montana: 0
Nebraska: 0
Nevada: 1 (Zephyr Cove)
New Hampshire: 0
New Jersey: 0
New Mexico: 2
New York: 3
North Carolina: 2
North Dakota: 0
Ohio: 0
Oklahoma: 2
Oregon: 5
Pennsylvania: 7
Rhode Island: 0
South Carolina: 2
South Dakota: 1
Tennessee: 2
Texas: 7
Utah: 2
Vermont: 2
Virginia: 4
Washington: 1
West Virginia: 3
Wisconsin: 9
Wyoming: 0

Total: 100 (99 not including Zephyr Cove)

Funny enough, that makes Zephyr Cove DGC ranked exactly 100th best in the United States by the users of DGCR. If you remember from my previous post there are 4937 courses listed on DGCR for the United States. 100 out of 4937 actually makes Zephyr Cove statistically better than 97.9744% of the courses rated on this website or in the top 2.03% of courses...

Statistics say that Zephyr Cove DGC is IS epic.

Let's go just a little further. It's been pointed out I've only played 43 courses. If Zephyr is in the top 2.03% that means that statistically roughly 1 out of 50 courses will be as good as Zephyr Cove. So that means that I need to play at least 7 more courses before I play another course that would be equal to or better.

Again, this is all statistics...

:thmbup::clap:

 

[sillybizz]

I'm sure when you drink Budweiser your whole life you think it's the greatest tasting beer in the world but anyone who has been to several microbreweries and tasted many, many different types of beers probably have a different opinion on the matter. Remember DGCR is a very biased site (a popularity contest mostly) with many Budweiser drinkers rating courses. Just keep this is mind when looking at the ratings. Remember fellas it's all subjective; different strokes for different folks but don't be surprised (or butt hurt) when someone disagrees with you.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I'm sure when you drink Budweiser your whole life you think it's the greatest tasting beer in the world but anyone who has been to several microbreweries and tasted many, many different types of beers probably have a different opinion on the matter. Remember DGCR is a very biased site (a popularity contest mostly) with many Budweiser drinkers rating courses. Just keep this is mind when looking at the ratings. Remember fellas it's all subjective; different strokes for different folks but don't be surprised (or butt hurt) when someone disagrees with you.

This applies to life really not just DGCR. Well said!

 

[discRabbit]

Well, what was a hyperbole in my original post about Zephyr being very unique and epic was decided to be taken as fact by you guys and I have to say you've piqued my interest. Without further ado...

I went a little deeper and looked at the top rated courses for each state and tallied up a list of courses that were equal to or greater than a rating of 4.26, which is what Zephyr Cove is rated. Here is what I found --

Disc Golf Course Ratings >=4.26

Alabama: 1
Alaska: 1
Arizona: 0
Arkansas: 1
California: 6
Colorado: 5
Connecticut: 0
Delaware: 0
Florida: 0
Georgia: 2
Hawaii: 0
Idaho: 0
Illinois: 4
Indiana: 1
Iowa: 4
Kansas: 0
Kentucky: 5
Louisiana: 0
Maine: 2
Maryland: 1
Massachusetts: 1
Michigan: 5
Minnesota: 4
Mississippi: 0
Missouri: 2
Montana: 0
Nebraska: 0
Nevada: 1 (Zephyr Cove)
New Hampshire: 0
New Jersey: 0
New Mexico: 2
New York: 3
North Carolina: 2
North Dakota: 0
Ohio: 0
Oklahoma: 2
Oregon: 5
Pennsylvania: 7
Rhode Island: 0
South Carolina: 2
South Dakota: 1
Tennessee: 2
Texas: 7
Utah: 2
Vermont: 2
Virginia: 4
Washington: 1
West Virginia: 3
Wisconsin: 9
Wyoming: 0

Total: 100 (99 not including Zephyr Cove)

Funny enough, that makes Zephyr Cove DGC ranked exactly 100th best in the United States by the users of DGCR. If you remember from my previous post there are 4937 courses listed on DGCR for the United States. 100 out of 4937 actually makes Zephyr Cove statistically better than 97.9744% of the courses rated on this website or in the top 2.03% of courses...

Statistics say that Zephyr Cove DGC is IS epic.

Let's go just a little further. It's been pointed out I've only played 43 courses. If Zephyr is in the top 2.03% that means that statistically roughly 1 out of 50 courses will be as good as Zephyr Cove. So that means that I need to play at least 7 more courses before I play another course that would be equal to or better.

Again, this is all statistics...

:thmbup::clap:

Thanks Blazed, I appreciate the data and the sophisticated interpretation of statistics! :thmbup:

People frequently say Flip City is "the best" course as well (in fact rated by this site as #1 for a loooong time), but again, IMO it is 'merely' quite good! Important piece of this is IMO, I could be wrong; I personally think "they" are wrong

One really cool silver lining in all this is that you have found your course!! You don't really need to play 'x' hundred courses to find one that you fall in love with. I did, but that is because I grew up in Chicago, haha :\

Cheers to ya, and we should get a tahoe round in sometime (I still haven't played a bunch of the other tahoe courses and would like to)

 

[goat00]

Change for the sake of change? get the hell outta here, if you want a pet course, go build one. why mess with a great course? its pretty obvious that the tahoe disc golf community doesnt want/like your proposed changes. is your own agenda more important than the community as a whole? no sir, it is not. your backdoor tactics to get your way are telling of how you handle things. if you want real info going around, not all of this "i heard" ****, be honest and open. you are neither. you removed the response section to the facebook campaign from your link? makes no sense. were you getting negative feedback? imagine that, your ideas might not be as good as you think they are. zephyr isnt your own personal playyard, the feedback you recieve is from the people who play. again: community feedback > a single persons agenda. take a hint

 

[Noill]

I'm sure when you drink Budweiser your whole life you think it's the greatest tasting beer in the world but anyone who has been to several microbreweries and tasted many, many different types of beers probably have a different opinion on the matter. Remember DGCR is a very biased site (a popularity contest mostly) with many Budweiser drinkers rating courses. Just keep this is mind when looking at the ratings. Remember fellas it's all subjective; different strokes for different folks but don't be surprised (or butt hurt) when someone disagrees with you.

Which is why I use the filter to see how the course rates based on all reviews and only trusted reviewers... not that I agree with all TR's but they do seem to differ on a lot of courses... I'll take the TR rating over the general one all the time as being more accurate as an average... funny thing that Flip City is 4.85 by both measures... TR's and general members numbers agree exactly

but yeah... good analogy with the Budweiser vs microbrews thing... experience really does help overall

 

[Noill]

Change for the sake of change? get the hell outta here, if you want a pet course, go build one.

Sound idea... it is odd to me that we are talking about a course that is this loved overall... I agree that the best thing here to do would be to get a new course put in not change up a well-established and well-loved course... I've looked into this situation a little bit and just have to wonder why Zephyr? Get a new course put in and be the main designer on it... also a great way to build up your course designer chops and have more clout when trying to mess with something as big a deal as Zephyr...

I reserve the right to be wrong on this of course...

 

[Zephyr]

Is there any buddy out there? Hello, any buddy?

I have all the facts documented of exactly what happened here. If there`s any one out there who really cares about the truth and how it`s screwing up a Innocent mans life, what if this was you! It seem the information can`t get out trough all the mass media lies and spinning. I have not found one person yet that disagrees with me if they take the time to hear me out. We need as a group to make sure this does not happen again this is not making us look good as a community!!!!!

Please don`t chastise me for my grammar, spelling and what not. I`m dyslexic, this is hard for me.
Thank you,

As Jackie Gleason and the lady on the street with Tom Green would say "away we go"

Quick to judge
Quick to anger
Slow to learn

 

[Zephyr]

I said I was dyslexic. It should read,

Quick to judge
Quick to anger
Slow to understand

My bad.

 

[Noill]

so what's the story then? I've got all the time needed to read it...

 

[Zephyr]

Thank you for giving me some hope, please give me a few minuets to figure out how to down load a file. It might be more then a few minuets.

 

[scarpfish]

Right now DGCR has 4937 courses listed.

That's just the U.S. course count (which a mere eight days later is now 5008).

Worldwide count is now 6233.

 

[scarpfish]

Statistics say that Zephyr Cove DGC is IS epic.

Let's go just a little further. It's been pointed out I've only played 43 courses. If Zephyr is in the top 2.03% that means that statistically roughly 1 out of 50 courses will be as good as Zephyr Cove. So that means that I need to play at least 7 more courses before I play another course that would be equal to or better.

Again, this is all statistics...

:thmbup::clap:

How hot it got today is a statistic. How many runs the Giants scored is a statistic. How many pieces of mail my machine processed per hour at work tonight is a statistic. The thing is they're all statistics of something that is objectively measured. The statistics you're glorifying are the amalgamation of the opinions of 37 reviewers, each of whom had to give their thoughts and then give the course in question one of eleven possible grades set by the administrator of a site that most disc golfers don't do reviews on. They are not the end product of some omnipotent being that is set in stone forever. Reviewer #38 will change things up, possibly a hair, possibly radically.