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2016 Vibram Birdie Bash
- Thread starter Gennataos
- Start date
dontBLAMEtheDISC
Birdie Member
I think its still a tad early yet. I only see 3 for 2016 on discgolfscene.com 2 in MI 1 in OH
You have to buy a lot of dummy packs around here b/c folks are so clueless about the tourney scene that pre-registering is a foreign concept. The guys that do pre-reg are guys that have played in a VBB before but I'm a little wary of them being keen enough on rubber to keep coming back. As far as the $100 value goes, that must be one hell of a shirt. I'm not sure I'm that good of a salesman.
I'm not really sure how much of a hassle it might be, really. I'm unclear on whether the TD has to be a current PDGA member or not. My membership will expire before these start I think so there's an extra expense on my part. The other thing that kind of confuses me is that PDGA insurance applies to the tourneys but it's $50 for a proof of insurance certificate.
My thing is I was planning on using this event to raise money for my local DG buddies that got into a terrible car accident prior to Thanksgiving. The charities Vibram is donating to are great and all but I'd rather cut them out in support of local charity. If there isn't a VBB remotely in my area set up by anybody else I might contact Steve Dodge and see if there's something he can work out. I can say for sure after past dealings with him that Steve is the man so I'm not trying to hate on the VBB. I just don't know if it's personally in my best interests.
dontBLAMEtheDISC
Birdie Member
Well in that case i would suggest picking a manufacturer that sells the best in your area that does tournaments sponsorship deals where you get discs for a very good price and run your own unsanctioned tournament
That way even though the discs have a tourneys stamp on them if you have any leftovers you can still sell them for cost or a little profit also.
uncle pennybags
Double Eagle Member
I get a lot of that here. So many people will show up the day of with the 'I didn't know I had to pre-register' line. What makes it worse is most have seen the posters I put up all over the place, and that's why the know it's going on. It's just that they are too dense to comprehend the meaning of pre-register. :wall:
That's only if the park you are using requires proof of insurance, you are still covered even if you don't need the proof.
I've always ran mine with the local club needs in mind. It might be to support another disc golfer like that, or just course renovation & improvements. I've also reinvested into the even it's self for extra prizes, usually enough so everybody gets a prize.
On a side note I thought of another slight annoyance with being sanctioned is that TD's (or possibly Vibram) will have to post results. Not that it will be a real time consumer, just another step.
kenjiac
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,080
Players will learn the concept of pre registering real fast if they show up day off and you tell them they can't play if you didn't prereg. Just saying. Why take the chance at losing money by ordering extra packs. I can see a few extra for the other manufactures events where you are all using the same discs but the VBB where each player chooses what discs he'd like to throw? I wouldn't buy extras.
JRW III
Double Eagle Member
I have run a VBB every year since inception. With these changes, I may not run one this year.
PDGA: I understand what Vibram is doing and think it is good. However, it adds no value to my event. The players in my event don't care if it is sanctioned and I have never needed the insurance.
Increased Fee: There has always been a low rate of the VBB discs actually making the bag for the players and they know it going into the event. They played anyways because it is a fun event and was relatively inexpensive. A $10 increase is a 33% increase and changes the value proposition. Especially when the original Discraft Ace Race is still $25 and no other similar event is over $30. [NOTE - The shirt could be a factor. The next level shirts the first year was a GREAT shirt. Was a very popular shirt amongst the players and use often after the event. However, every shirt since then has basically gone straight to the give-away stack for most players. But, without details on the shirt, hard to factor it into the decision.]
PDGA: I understand what Vibram is doing and think it is good. However, it adds no value to my event. The players in my event don't care if it is sanctioned and I have never needed the insurance.
Increased Fee: There has always been a low rate of the VBB discs actually making the bag for the players and they know it going into the event. They played anyways because it is a fun event and was relatively inexpensive. A $10 increase is a 33% increase and changes the value proposition. Especially when the original Discraft Ace Race is still $25 and no other similar event is over $30. [NOTE - The shirt could be a factor. The next level shirts the first year was a GREAT shirt. Was a very popular shirt amongst the players and use often after the event. However, every shirt since then has basically gone straight to the give-away stack for most players. But, without details on the shirt, hard to factor it into the decision.]
Gennataos
Eagle Member
Why would you say this? I'm assuming I'm included in this lot. Why does it make me whiny to be disappointed in a price increase?
Gennataos
Eagle Member
I've read back through the thread and I'm not sure why anyone would take exception with folks, like myself, who are disappointed. Several of us have run past events and just don't like the price increase nor the PDGA requirement. Why would that bother anyone? We've demonstrated we're Vibram fans by runnning past events. None of us said anything derogatory about Vibram. I really don't get why anyone would call us whiny or entitled.
I didn't post this because I didn't want to buck up another $10 for a players pack. I'd probably do that regardless, I love Vibram. It's about making the tournament easy for me to run. A price increase and PDGA membership requirement are just additional hurdles to run the event. Insurmountable? Not at all. Enough to make me just think, "Ahh...too much of a hassle, screw it"? Probably.
There's likely a price point threshold for people when it comes to something like this. Vibram is simply not a manufacturer that many players would think, "Yeah...I'll give that event a whirl and see if one of the discs sticks in my bag". As I think BrotherDave mentioned, a lot of these VBB discs get thrown for that event, then tossed into the used bin. My numbers were down from 2014 to 2015. I can only guess that would drop even more with the price increase.
I could use the "bonus" money to pay for my PDGA membership. That'll mean less money towards lunch and extra prizes. With the likely drop in numbers, that'd make providing lunch and extra prizes that much tighter.
More altruistic folks wouldn't have a problem with all this. Folks like Andy, who go out of pocket to run the event, wouldn't even blink at this sort of thing. Me? I'm just a Vibram fan who thought an easy to run event would be fun. Even an event which is as easy to run as a VBB requires a certain amount of work and hassle from the TD. I really don't want any more hassle tossed in.
I didn't post this because I didn't want to buck up another $10 for a players pack. I'd probably do that regardless, I love Vibram. It's about making the tournament easy for me to run. A price increase and PDGA membership requirement are just additional hurdles to run the event. Insurmountable? Not at all. Enough to make me just think, "Ahh...too much of a hassle, screw it"? Probably.
There's likely a price point threshold for people when it comes to something like this. Vibram is simply not a manufacturer that many players would think, "Yeah...I'll give that event a whirl and see if one of the discs sticks in my bag". As I think BrotherDave mentioned, a lot of these VBB discs get thrown for that event, then tossed into the used bin. My numbers were down from 2014 to 2015. I can only guess that would drop even more with the price increase.
I could use the "bonus" money to pay for my PDGA membership. That'll mean less money towards lunch and extra prizes. With the likely drop in numbers, that'd make providing lunch and extra prizes that much tighter.
More altruistic folks wouldn't have a problem with all this. Folks like Andy, who go out of pocket to run the event, wouldn't even blink at this sort of thing. Me? I'm just a Vibram fan who thought an easy to run event would be fun. Even an event which is as easy to run as a VBB requires a certain amount of work and hassle from the TD. I really don't want any more hassle tossed in.
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This might turn into a long winded ramble, so just be prepared.
For what its worth, there is really only three or four people in this thread complaining about the price. And none of you are out of line. Especially with Vibram claiming 100 dollar value. I dispute that. But I would say even with a regular cotton tee, your players pack is worth the 40 bucks. Around here, we only have PIAS that sells Vibrams and let me tell you, they arent cheap. I wont go into specifics but they are marked up quite a bit. The selling point for my previous VBBs was the discs for the price. And I believe that stilk stands....at least in this area of Colorado.
Now for the ten buck increase. This is about to sound insulting, simplistic and glib but Im going to power through it nonetheless. If ten dollars is that big of a deal for you, especially when you are getting that money back in the players pack (again, for the record, I am greatly refuting the 100 dollar value...I would say 50 at most) then why are you even considering playing events? Disc Golf is crazy cheap. Even A Tier tournaments. Compared to the myriad of other sports Ive played, I just cant understand the logic of anyone complaining about the cost of anything disc golf related.
Im not wealthy. I work for the Government and my wife is a teacher. During the summer, we dont have a lot of extra income. Of course, the summer is when most disc golf events happen. So I stash away money during spring and winter to play the big events I want. Sometimes that means I miss out on a great local event. It also means I dont get to do things like GBO unless I was to save up all year.
If you like Vibram, or are at least interested in the brand, 40 bucks is chump change. If you dont like the discs, sell em for ten bucks each and you got half your money back. I still dont see this as cost prohibitive. Now, them raising the price did take the VBB away from being the best value in disc golf. It also, perhaps, eliminated a lot of the super casual players that the VBB normally catered to. Thats a damn shame, and its Vibram's cross to bear. It really sucks for some areas that dont have a thriving DG scene because those casuals are the ones they depend on to fill events like this. Luckily we have enough serious golfers in my area that this will not be an issue.
So for someone in these forums to get wrapped around the axle over ten bucks...to me anyway, it comes across as whining. If you're here, presumably you are pretty aerious about DG.
Do you have a right to complain? ABSOLUTLEY. I do see it from your side...Vibram raised the price by ten bucks without adding anything extra from previous years. PDGA sanctioning? BFD. For us its a boon because our course requires insurance. But we still have to pony up 50 bucks for the proof, and pay for the course reservation. Its saving us money but not a lot, really. Adding cost without adding appreciable benefit stings a little.
But if you look at it from the perspective of maybe the previous three years' VBBs were TOO cheap, then the picture becomes a little more clear. If you care about the sport side of disc golf (I really dont, to be honest) you'll see that Vibram is making some big pushesto get bigger payouts for pros. For them to do that, they cant be losing money on Birdie Bashes.
So its not that I dont see your point. I just dont agree with it.
dontBLAMEtheDISC
Birdie Member
Well for everyone who dislikes this vbb format this year but are vibram fans.
Option 1
Fill out a sponsorship application and you can get vibranm disc's with a custom stamp for $10 a disc and maybe a kick back. Granted you have pay at least $200 up front since the minimum order is 20 discs and run your own unsanctioned tournament in any format you want.
Option 2
you could run a vbb if pdga member no upfront cost and vibram handles the
Registration
Player pack assembly
Shipping
Credit card processing fees
Pdga fees
If all that lack of hassle isn't worth it than option one is always available for you vibram fans.
Option 1
Fill out a sponsorship application and you can get vibranm disc's with a custom stamp for $10 a disc and maybe a kick back. Granted you have pay at least $200 up front since the minimum order is 20 discs and run your own unsanctioned tournament in any format you want.
Option 2
you could run a vbb if pdga member no upfront cost and vibram handles the
Registration
Player pack assembly
Shipping
Credit card processing fees
Pdga fees
If all that lack of hassle isn't worth it than option one is always available for you vibram fans.
dontBLAMEtheDISC
Birdie Member
Addressing the cost if I were to to go discgolfcenter.com for example a vibram putter, fairway, mini and average non name brand drifit shirt would cost me $57.96 before tax and shipping.
If it's a quality name brand drifit shirt depending on custom designs it could be an extra $10-$50
If it's a quality name brand drifit shirt depending on custom designs it could be an extra $10-$50
It is nice to simply plagerize to make a post. Thanks Andy, good post.
Gennataos
Eagle Member
Andy - You are inferring far to much from my post, or far too little. I've already said that I'm a Vibram fan. I've already said I'll probably play a VBB. No, $10 isn't a big deal to me. That $40 price point will be a deciding factor for a lot of people, though, which impacts whether or not I'd choose to run one.
Your counterpoint argument, from my inference of it, is, "But it's disc golf! Even at a $10 increase, that's awesome! Because it's disc golf!" You're a PDGA member who posts disc golf videos and ponies up hundreds of your own dollars to run a VBB as a fund raiser. I don't expect my complaints to resonate much with you.
Your counterpoint argument, from my inference of it, is, "But it's disc golf! Even at a $10 increase, that's awesome! Because it's disc golf!" You're a PDGA member who posts disc golf videos and ponies up hundreds of your own dollars to run a VBB as a fund raiser. I don't expect my complaints to resonate much with you.
technically hundreds, yes, but I don't want to come off like some crazy financier. I just bought insurance and a few extra prizes.
Like I wrote earlier, I get your point of view. And I also said that the extra ten dollars will very likely mean that casual players will steer clear. Around here, we'll still get a few I'm sure, but we are also doing a Trilogy Challenge, Prodigy Par2, Ace Race and possibly a Battle of the Aces this year. All of those are cheaper and two of them (possibly three since the Par 2 event says that the glow putters will only be released for the event) compete or exceed the Birdie Bash's value. Ten dollars, to me, isn't jack nor **** regarding disc golf but I am very aware that the difference between 30 and 40 is the difference between someone trying Vibram or trying Prodigy, Discraft, Trilogy, Legacy, MVP, etc.
A better solution would have been for them to offer the PDGA sanctioning. That would put the impetus on the TD to really sell the event if they support the "Grow the Sport" movement. Flip side to that is what if you're an area with other nearby Birdie Bashes how do you sell yours for the extra ten bucks? For a fair amount of people, PDGA means nothing. I get that as well. We ran a PDGA Sanctioned fundraising league at our new course and got well under half of what we did running standards tags and that was just 5 bucks.
So again, I'm not saying I don't get it. I wholly understand your point of view and it does bring up the question, to Vibram, of: why fix what isn't broken? I've been pretty up front about not supporting the Grow the Sport movement. I think it should be Grow the Game...and the best way to do that is a low cost for fun event without PDGA ties.
I stand by my statement that 40 dollars is still stupid cheap for what you're getting. But that doesn't help the ones who have to sell it to casual or even semi-serious players. Because you can play a C-Tier with a players pack and actually get rated rounds for less than 40 bucks. How the hell is a TD supposed to sell a player on getting points for an XC-Tier when said player doesn't care about the PDGA to begin with?
I'm not changing my position...but I am in agreeance with some things you've said.
Gennataos
Eagle Member
JRW III
Double Eagle Member
Ditto.
The shirt will probably be the deciding factor in me running the VBB this year.
And to the above discussion in the context of this tournament, a $10 increase is a HUGE deal. 33% increase over prior year price. 33% higher than the next competitor. While to some it is not a huge deal, to many it is. If it effects too many, it makes it not worth the effort for the TD to run the tournament.
dontBLAMEtheDISC
Birdie Member
I know its crazy right that's why I only play in trilogy challenges because I get 3 disc's and swag when everyone else only gets 2 disc's and swag. you are getting screwed if you play in anything other than a trilogy challenge. [emoji6] [emoji6] [emoji6]
I may be in the minority here, but I still bag the Summit and Ibex from last year's Birdie Bash. They are two of my most reliable discs and I can always count on them. Their grip in wet/moist conditions is only rivaled by MVP/Axiom.
The only thing that would prevent me from playing in this years Birdie Bash is the course/club that usually hosts it. It is a very short, tight course, and I don't see much use for a fairway driver on that course. $40 for two good discs, a shirt, and a tournament entry doesn't sound like a deal breaker for me, but maybe that is only because I like Vibram discs. I just picked up a Valley and a Vamp and can't wait to try them out.
The only thing that would prevent me from playing in this years Birdie Bash is the course/club that usually hosts it. It is a very short, tight course, and I don't see much use for a fairway driver on that course. $40 for two good discs, a shirt, and a tournament entry doesn't sound like a deal breaker for me, but maybe that is only because I like Vibram discs. I just picked up a Valley and a Vamp and can't wait to try them out.
Meh, spoken like a fanboy, lol. I spent $30 on the Trilogy Challenge for basically 3 test discs. The only one I kept in my bag was the Evidence, and even then it was way too glidey to be used for shots that require accuracy. At least with the Birdie Bash you have a choice of discs.
That being said, I love the format. I played the Birdie Bash, Trilogy Challenge, and the Ace Race last year and had a great time at all of them.
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