Is philo bag too simple

[jmdaire27]

He only throws 5 molds, but there's still several discs in there. Say, 4 rocs in different stages of wear. I can bag a Verdict, Emac Truth, Truth, Warrant and have the same feel in the hand, in premium plastic, and cover the same range of shots.

Cycling isn't for everyone. Sure, when you play as much as the touring pros do, cycling at least a couple molds makes sense (Ricky and enforcers, Paul and destroyers/roc3s). I guess I wouldn't get to hung up on if his bag is too simple. It's not. He's got 20+ discs still that do all he needs.

 

[Vonbeezy1]

It helps that he throws all backhand. I agree it's too simple if you use forehands regularly. The point is: know your game and know what discs work for your game. Philo knows his, and he knows that simplicity is an asset to him, not a weakness.

LOL what makes it too simple for forehands?

 

[Shamis]

If you can throw a good forehand, backhand, thumber, tommy then you really don't need to carry much at all. If you only have a good backhand or only a good forehand, then you need some more.

 

[5QU166Y]

If you can throw a good forehand, backhand, thumber, tommy then you really don't need to carry much at all. If you only have a good backhand or only a good forehand, then you need some more.

But Philo only has a good backhand, and he's the one with a simple bag...

 

[tbird888]

I think the simplicity of Philo's bag speaks more to the versatility of the molds he chooses to bag and his abilities than it does the effectiveness of his setup. If you've thrown any of the molds he bags for any amount of time, you'd know they (in various stages of wear) can cover a tremendous amount of shots.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

His bag isn't "simple."
He has X number of discs that all fly differently. Same as a person using unique molds for different flights. You still have to know how each one flies and pick the appropriate disc for the shot.

 

[ThrowBot]

It helps that he throws all backhand. I agree it's too simple if you use forehands regularly.

I don't get this. Actually I'd say the opposite is true: if you have a good FH and BH, you can cover more lines with fewer discs. I don't see how adding different throw options would somehow make a bag too simple.

(Unless there's an assumption that you need separate discs for FH and BH, which is false. I can comfortably forehand all 5 of the core Philo molds.)

However, that's not the topic at hand. Philo is crazy good throwing basically just 5 molds (and rarely ever using FH). So it's easy to say that no, Philo's bag is not too simple...given his skill set.

 

[NegaSnapples]

I don't get this. Actually I'd say the opposite is true: if you have a good FH and BH, you can cover more lines with fewer discs. I don't see how adding different throw options would somehow make a bag too simple.


(Unless there's an assumption that you need separate discs for FH and BH, which is false. I can comfortably forehand all 5 of the core Philo molds.)


However, that's not the topic at hand. Philo is crazy good throwing basically just 5 molds (and rarely ever using FH). So it's easy to say that no, Philo's bag is not too simple...given his skill set.

Over time is isn't unreasonable to develop different disc preferences with your different throws. They're two different grips and motions. Needing varying disc to accommodate different throwing styles makes sense.

 

[tbird888]

Over time is isn't unreasonable to develop different disc preferences with your different throws. They're two different grips and motions. Needing varying disc to accommodate different throwing styles makes sense.

In the end, it all comes down to spin and throwing on plane. Grips, motions, etc. don't really matter.

 

[armiller]

LOL what makes it too simple for forehands?

I don't get this. Actually I'd say the opposite is true: if you have a good FH and BH, you can cover more lines with fewer discs. I don't see how adding different throw options would somehow make a bag too simple.

(Unless there's an assumption that you need separate discs for FH and BH, which is false. I can comfortably forehand all 5 of the core Philo molds.)

However, that's not the topic at hand. Philo is crazy good throwing basically just 5 molds (and rarely ever using FH). So it's easy to say that no, Philo's bag is not too simple...given his skill set.

Okay. I suppose I should just agree w/ Broken Shoulder and say his bag isn't simple at all. Give me that many different Destroyers, etc., and it's not actually that different from a 12 mold bag.

But I'm a forehand/backhand player. The vast majority of discs in my bag get thrown both ways, but some definitely work better FH or BH, even if only for grip differences. Sure I could throw a Leopard forehand, but it's not as easy/consistent as throwing something else. You have to admit that split BH/FH players have more molds in their bag... not sure about Ricky, but look at Nate.

 

[tbird888]

BH/FH player here. 6 molds (with multiple wear stages for each mold), but I'm playing around with distance drivers right now so I have 8 currently. PDs and QJLS are great for both styles. Zones and Rocs are one style only for me though.

 

[Monocacy]

. . . You have to admit that split BH/FH players have more molds in their bag... not sure about Ricky, but look at Nate.

My bag was simpler when I was able to throw BH and FH interchangeably. Guys used to rag on me at leagues, "There is that dam' yellow Teebird again."

 

[armiller]

My bag was simpler when I was able to throw BH and FH interchangeably. Guys used to rag on me at leagues, "There is that dam' yellow Teebird again."

Yeah, the Teebird is a classic example of a perfect FH/BH disc. Leopard not so much (grip and lack of torque resistance).

I throw my Comet forehands (not off the tee), my Polecat, my Buzzz, ... I'm as big an advocate as anyone of throwing both ways. But the fact is, even if I CAN throw everything FH/BH, I get comfortable throwing some discs FH or BH. Maybe I was wrong to apply this to Philo, but I think it makes it a lot easier for him to have fewer molds in his bag. He essentially throws all his shots with the same grip, so using the same mold lends itself to success.

 

[NegaSnapples]

In the end, it all comes down to spin and throwing on plane. Grips, motions, etc. don't really matter.

I'm not talking about flight, I'm only talking about preference in feel of the disc

The rim of a destroyer can feel better for someone's long range BH and then they can prefer the rim of some other disc for long range FH drives. It's not a strange concept. I'm confused why so many in the thread are struggling with this.

 

[armiller]

In the end, it all comes down to spin and throwing on plane. Grips, motions, etc. don't really matter.

I gotta say I disagree with this. Yes spin and plane are similar for both. But I still believe there are some fundamental differences, especially angular velocity but also linear velocity. I'm not Philo (though I bet my forehand is better...) but I find that high speed drivers (13) work for me FH but not backhand. I think that even for beginners I would more easily recommend speed 11-13 discs for forehand but only 9-10 for backhand.

And grip ALWAYS matters because you're never going to get consistency without some degree of comfort or at least being tolerant of the feel.

 

[ODRB]

I have tried to, for years, watch and rewatch Philo's ITB videos as a reminder of how simple a good bag ought to be. I am no Philo but I try to follow the ethos -- keep it super simple.

I hover in the 6-7 molds range -- Destroyers, Firebirds, Orion LFs, Roadrunners (Philo doesn't throw rollers), Rocs, Harps, Wizards. And Harps really COULD go. But I like something very OS and inexpensive (Philo doesn't have to care when he loses a Champ Roc -- Innova will give him a new one.)

Too simple? Hell no. Simpler is better. I don't get to play everyday, so I sure as sh!t don't have time to learn 13 molds..

 

[Broken Shoulder]

I think the main issue here is using the term "simple" in this way. Philo's setup is no more or less simple than another person who chooses to use different molds for different flights. We're really talking about number of molds, not number of discs, and simple is simply the wrong word to use here.

As for the FH/BH argument... that's just individual preference on hand feel that you guys are arguing. If you're comfortable FHing the five molds you bag, fine. If not, add some specialized stuff. Eventually, you end up in the 20ish disc range, with all shots covered.

Simple.

 

[tbird888]

I gotta say I disagree with this. Yes spin and plane are similar for both. But I still believe there are some fundamental differences, especially angular velocity but also linear velocity. I'm not Philo (though I bet my forehand is better...) but I find that high speed drivers (13) work for me FH but not backhand. I think that even for beginners I would more easily recommend speed 11-13 discs for forehand but only 9-10 for backhand.

And grip ALWAYS matters because you're never going to get consistency without some degree of comfort or at least being tolerant of the feel.

I was the same way until I started emulating Big Jerm's throwing style which is arguably as clean as it gets. Warp speed drivers are "better" for beginners because they mask form flaws. That keeps them getting respectable distance (for themselves) and in the fairway having fun.

Not saying your FH is full of torque or anything insulting, but if you have trouble with slower discs, I reckon you might see more gains from your faster drivers if you could throw slower drivers better. In the past, I struggled (and eventually avoided) flicking my main QJLS BH thrower. As I've migrated towards the Jerm method, I flick QJs with great success more than my beefy PDs which were my main flick discs. When I need to move up to PDs though, I'm noticing a major difference with them as well. This is even true when I mess with Destros. I do have small hands though so my consistency goes out the window after PDs.

Obviously this could be a different strokes situation, but I'll cite Jerm's FH to help prove my case.

 

[tbird888]

If you're comfortable FHing the five molds you bag, fine. If not, add some specialized stuff. Eventually, you end up in the 20ish disc range, with all shots covered.

Simple.

Well said

 

[armiller]

I was the same way until I started emulating Big Jerm's throwing style which is arguably as clean as it gets. Warp speed drivers are "better" for beginners because they mask form flaws. That keeps them getting respectable distance (for themselves) and in the fairway having fun.

Not saying your FH is full of torque or anything insulting, but if you have trouble with slower discs, I reckon you might see more gains from your faster drivers if you could throw slower drivers better.

I love throwing Undertakers, Valks, Beasts, Buzzz's, Polecats, Comets... but if there's an open field in front of me, my Valk won't get me 400' nearly as easy as my Crank or Katana.