Chainstarred???

[araytx]

I'm not happy about it one bit, but I am interested to hear comments on Nate Sexton's putt on hole 1 round 2 at Worlds, just flat out spitting out. When it happens to a universally admired nice guy at the top of our profession

I have stated my opinions on the imperfectness of our targets before. I base it upon "i know a 'good putt' when I see one. I have been chastised on these channels. I have heard "Ricky just putts too hard" when it's dead center nuts, "it's not the basket it's the player," "we have to accept that's part of the sport and move on," and many other similar (non)"thoughts.

Now I challenge anyone to tell me that was the player, and not the imperfection of our targets -- something totally unique to disc golf. Not a basketball, soccer, hockey, or any other target in sports has this type of imperfect functionality.

 

[etdefender19]

Not totally unique to disc golf.

Think about a baseball stadium...many balls that are home runs in Yankee Stadium would be outs at AT&T Park, etc. In that sense, the "targets" have imperfect functionality. For chrissakes, regular golf has imperfect bounces off of flagsticks and putts that bounce weird off of a spike mark, or just flat lip out for no apparent reason.

Besides, literally every sport has an element of luck. Yes, luck tends to favor the better players, but there is luck nonetheless. In every sport. The only competitive thing I can think of without any element of luck is chess. I don't understand the outrage behind a spit out. It happens, deal with it. You can choose to let it ruin your day or move on with your life

 

[ru4por]

I'm not happy about it one bit, but I am interested to hear comments on Nate Sexton's putt on hole 1 round 2 at Worlds, just flat out spitting out. When it happens to a universally admired nice guy at the top of our profession

I have stated my opinions on the imperfectness of our targets before. I base it upon "i know a 'good putt' when I see one. I have been chastised on these channels. I have heard "Ricky just putts too hard" when it's dead center nuts, "it's not the basket it's the player," "we have to accept that's part of the sport and move on," and many other similar (non)"thoughts.

Now I challenge anyone to tell me that was the player, and not the imperfection of our targets -- something totally unique to disc golf. Not a basketball, soccer, hockey, or any other target in sports has this type of imperfect functionality.

Happens in basketball. Some rims have more give or bounce. The other sports are not real comparisons. The goal in those sports are a line. Though, it could be said that even replays sometimes fail to determine if a ball/puck crossed the line.

All baskets have the potential to produce a spit out or bounce out. Part of the game. If a particular basket has the propensity to spit out certain putts, adjust your putting style to accommodate. Those that do this best, have less spit outs.

It is a skill, not unlike most other parts of the game. I might throw shots for skips if the ground is more receptive to this style throw. Same with rollers.

 

[Golden Tuna]

As long as the targets have moving parts that are not systematic (like set gears) there will be spit outs.
It is not the target, the target design, or the players, it just is. In some cases, good putts spit out. This appears to be one of those instances. For all we know, it is a reflection of how the chains bunched up behind the disc, the velocity, angle, etc.

 

[slowplastic]

Those are the newest versions of Chainstars, right?

I hate the previous chainoutstars the most out of any basket, not surprised the tradition keeps up with the Pro.

In the baseball analogy, every field can make dimensions how they want within the regulations. So there's definitely different stats/advantages for pitchers or hitters at different parks, but it's the same for every player at that field. The weirdness is for example getting a ball caught in the ivy at Wrigley, that's the strangest possible occurrence. Again it's known for every player there's a likelihood it can happen if a hit gets by the outfielders.

 

[scarpfish]

I don't remember anyone in the past making the claim that our targets weren't without flaws.

I think the argument was more over what the ideal target standard was, and if it was cost effective to have a set of them following the pros around.

 

[ODRB]

Not the best putt. Weak side, falling away.

 

[tbird888]

That is the same thing I noticed about my MVP Portals from the beginning. The chains push those putts over the cage instead of into like a Discatcher will. Whenever I mention that property I always mention that those technically aren't "good putts" so they shouldn't catch them.

That unfortunately wasn't a good putt.

 

[roggenb3]

Not the best putt. Weak side, falling away.

Yup. Definitely seen better putts than that spit out.

Very few spit outs are "perfect" putts. Most of the time, even when it looks like complete robbery, the player knows they could have thrown a better putt.

Funny that no one complains about targets when a bad putt grabs the last chain and somehow stays in.

 

[Karl]

The goal is to 'get the disc to stay in the basket after you throw it'. Any time you 'use the deflection device' to aid in that task, you run the risk of failure. This isn't archery; you don't score if you 'hit the target (chains)'...you score if the basket holds your disc (or if you're lucky enough to have the chains cradle the disc ABOVE any part of the basket...but that IS just "luck").

 

[IHearChains]

No solving this, and honestly I'm OK with that. I'm used to Mach 3s or Chainstars that have a "pro side"...you can hit a Mach X or Prodigy with a perfect "pro side" putt and have it bounce off the side. There is no "pro side" on those, and even dead center with lower velocity can bounce straight back. Nobody likes spitouts but all baskets have them, just different types. Gotta take it upon myself to adjust.

 

[pauldst]

It looks to me like that spit out was caused by there being more than one layer of chains. The extra chains were put on, I believe, to catch harder putts that would likely blow through one layer of chains. I'm almost certain Sexton's putt would have been caught by my practice basket, which has only one set of chains.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Didn't look any worse than Niko's on #8.

Have to tip my cap to James Conrad... damned impressive way to start a round!

 

[Motorpro]

Part of the game...everyone it throwing at the same basket so no advantage or disadvantage to anyone..putt it in and move to the next tee

 

[JC17393]

I think Karl hits on the crux of the discussion. The chains are a deflection device (it's how they're referenced in the technical standards), not the target itself. In a way, the chains are more akin to a basketball backboard than to the hoop. Ideally when you hit the painted square on the backboard, the ball will deflect through the hoop, but that's not always how it works. If you hit the square too hard or at a poor angle, the ball might hit the rim and fall outside the hoop or miss the hoop all together. Hitting the square alone does not equate to a "good" shot. Hitting the square and having the ball then fall properly through the hoop equates to a "good" shot.

 

[Brockness Monster]

No one ever seems to mention the plastic type either. My R-Pros have far less spit outs than the DX versions that I have tried in the past. Certain plastic types play a role in whether a disc will spit out as well. No one putts with champ or star because they are too durable for the chains to dig in and grab. All in all a good player will adjust according to the basket. If you can put it in the basket without the need for chains, all the better.

 

[EarthRocker]

Yup. Definitely seen better putts than that spit out.

Very few spit outs are "perfect" putts. Most of the time, even when it looks like complete robbery, the player knows they could have thrown a better putt.

Funny that no one complains about targets when a bad putt grabs the last chain and somehow stays in.

Right. Or the ones that touch zero chain and find a way to roll almost 360 degrees around the cage and miraculously stay in.

The number on the card looks exactly the same, no matter how it happens, good or bad.

 

[EarthRocker]

...If you hit the square too hard or at a poor angle, the ball might hit the rim and fall outside the hoop or miss the hoop all together. Hitting the square alone does not equate to a "good" shot. Hitting the square and having the ball then fall properly through the hoop equates to a "good" shot.

And if you don't call "glass," it's pure luck, anyway. Right? : pokingwithastick :

 

[curmudgeonDwindle]

As one who has been accused of getting bent out of shape and then magnifying my issue into a universal, I think there's one thing most every disc golfer might agree upon in this area of disc golf: all the current target options have obvious flaws and could well stand improvement, which will better the game's quality for every player.

Don't want to play Capt. obvious - I just know how easy it can be to get carried away...and maybe we could brainstorm more about how to improve the situation and less about how this issue frustrates some...frustrations are a given since, all golfers are masochists at heart anyway...

Here's an easy one: I believe the reason for the earlier chainstars' bad reputation was because of of the single chain ring (the double chain model has this feature). I haven't even seen the new ones, so I don't know if it's been addressed, but it seems to me that with the single ring there's too much 'pre-load' on the entire chain set, making its action more 'springy' and less absorbent...am I off target here?

 

[tbird888]

Time to go back to tone poles.