[Innova] The mythical Innova ROC

[Streets]

The way I look at the RC3 vs. Roc3 naming confusion is that the Rancho is kind of the standard Roc right now. Sanny's and Ontario's usually come in limited runs or just one plastic. The Rancho is THE Roc right now, and this is the third version of this standard Roc.

 

[THE GOV'NA]

mids im carrying..FROM MOST OS TO MOST US

177 sanny Q sent
180 ring roc
180 11x roc (freshy)
177 11x roc (beat nicely)
177 SMRD roc 8/10
177 star mako (flat)
173 ontario cobra (flat/fresh)
167 ontario cobra (flat/seasoned)

 

[THE GOV'NA]

I AGREE WITH STREETS

 

[Rocaholic74]

I AGREE WITH STREETS

I agree with this statement but if you look at the old Champ Rocs from 2001 to 2005 and then again from 2006 to 2012....do you think these are all made from the same Rancho Roc mold?

 

[THE GOV'NA]

nooo some are sanny molds...lol..and yes its prolly the same or close to the same mold..the difference is in the blends of plastic and how they stick in the mold,or cool or whatever

 

[Rocaholic74]

They made Champion Rocs in the Sanny mold back in 2001 to 2005? I know they re-did the Sanny mold in 2008 when they made the Thrower and West sayeed USDGC Roc but those were the only Sanny mold rocs I was aware of until know...you learn something new everyday.

 

[justactnormal]

The way I look at the RC3 vs. Roc3 naming confusion is that the Rancho is kind of the standard Roc right now. Sanny's and Ontario's usually come in limited runs or just one plastic. The Rancho is THE Roc right now, and this is the third version of this standard Roc.

I can kinda get this line of thinking in a way, but when I think about it reeeeealy hard (too hard) it doesn't hold up. Innova even describes the Ontario, San Marino and classic as being different molds altogether. The Rancho is the most current version, but it isn't THE Roc. It's one of several that have similar feels, but different characteristics. I know San Marino's are stock in Star and have been for some time, and I just got an Ontario with the factory F2 stamp and 2011 in the original stamp, so it can't be that old either. It's more correct to call these new Rocs RC3 than Roc3, IMO.

Anyway, as it's been said Dave described this as being the 3rd version of the Rancho mold, hence RC3. I believe that the original is version 1, all Ranchos regardless of plastic and the + mold to be version 2, then this one version 3. So, RC3 regardless of what's on the stamp. Confusion could arise from it being marked R on the bottom, the same as RC1's, if you will. If you looked at an original Rancho and a RC3 side by side, you couldn't tell them apart if the stamps were the same, or if they were blank. Same tooling, same markings, similar feel, but 2 different discs.

It doesn't really matter in the end though. If it's a good disc, then people will throw it. If not, it'll be as popular as a Lycan.

 

[Tpro]

When will
All the people come to realize that Innova
Suffers from consistency issues?
Purchase a WASP

For all the arguments about Roc vs Buzzz, they are not the same type of mid.
A Wasp is a Roc that never changes and you dont have to know what city, year, or who was president when it was made. They are all the same.

Wrong Sir. Ive held in my hands two plusish Wasp molds in the last couple months. VERY weird. The new ones ARE different. :gross:

 

[ftb george f]

roc

my favorite is 2001 first run ce roc

 

[Tpro]

I agree with this statement but if you look at the old Champ Rocs from 2001 to 2005 and then again from 2006 to 2012....do you think these are all made from the same Rancho Roc mold?

The pre '06 Rocs are Way different. I Like the 05 spec.s (the forgotten Roc). Pick up the Nate Doss USDGC roc or a Rings Roc (USDGC) they are MUCH different than the Battles, Kenny 4x, 05s etc!

 

[Streets]

I AGREE WITH STREETS

Thank you!

 

[Rocaholic74]

The pre '06 Rocs are Way different. I Like the 05 spec.s (the forgotten Roc). Pick up the Nate Doss USDGC roc or a Rings Roc (USDGC) they are MUCH different than the Battles, Kenny 4x, 05s etc!

That's why I don't think labeling these RC3 is correct when you look at all the different types of Champion Rocs that Innova has put into circulation throughout the years.

 

[grodney]

Re: the history of Rocs, here's a thread I made back in '05, suggesting someone compile an exhaustive list of the different types of Rocs. It never went anywhere, but Dave and Craig (and others) had some fun info.

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=18754

 

[Tpro]

That's why I don't think labeling these RC3 is correct when you look at all the different types of Champion Rocs that Innova has put into circulation throughout the years.

agreed. :hfive:

 

[Toro71]

They made Champion Rocs in the Sanny mold back in 2001 to 2005? I know they re-did the Sanny mold in 2008 when they made the Thrower and West sayeed USDGC Roc but those were the only Sanny mold rocs I was aware of until know...you learn something new everyday.

Gets to be sort of like, you need to be a DG archeologist to find replacements. LOL. Raiders of the Lost Orc!

 

[Streets]

I can kinda get this line of thinking in a way, but when I think about it reeeeealy hard (too hard) it doesn't hold up. Innova even describes the Ontario, San Marino and classic as being different molds altogether. The Rancho is the most current version, but it isn't THE Roc. It's one of several that have similar feels, but different characteristics. I know San Marino's are stock in Star and have been for some time, and I just got an Ontario with the factory F2 stamp and 2011 in the original stamp, so it can't be that old either. It's more correct to call these new Rocs RC3 than Roc3, IMO.

Anyway, as it's been said Dave described this as being the 3rd version of the Rancho mold, hence RC3. I believe that the original is version 1, all Ranchos regardless of plastic and the + mold to be version 2, then this one version 3. So, RC3 regardless of what's on the stamp. Confusion could arise from it being marked R on the bottom, the same as RC1's, if you will. If you looked at an original Rancho and a RC3 side by side, you couldn't tell them apart if the stamps were the same, or if they were blank. Same tooling, same markings, similar feel, but 2 different discs.

It doesn't really matter in the end though. If it's a good disc, then people will throw it. If not, it'll be as popular as a Lycan.

I see your point. I guess when I think of Roc my mind just automatically goes to the Rancho since I haven't been playing too long. I've only ever had ranchos except the San Marino you see in my profile pic. When I hear of other Rocs it's always special runs, usually, with the exception of the star sannies. Good points though!

 

[kevdiv48]

When will
All the people come to realize that Innova
Suffers from consistency issues?
Purchase a WASP

For all the arguments about Roc vs Buzzz, they are not the same type of mid.
A Wasp is a Roc that never changes and you dont have to know what city, year, or who was president when it was made. They are all the same.

This man speaks the truth. Couldn't agree more. Flat, heavy Z Wasp and I am set for the OS mid slot.

 

[thechamp]

This man speaks the truth. Couldn't agree more. Flat, heavy Z Wasp and I am set for the OS mid slot.

Except for a few years when they weren't very stable at all. That's when a lot of people dropped the Wasp, but they might come back to them now.

 

[solomon.trenton]

When will
All the people come to realize that Innova
Suffers from consistency issues?
Purchase a WASP

For all the arguments about Roc vs Buzzz, they are not the same type of mid.
A Wasp is a Roc that never changes and you dont have to know what city, year, or who was president when it was made. They are all the same.

discraft is far from consistent. mvp is one of the best. so is lat

 

[Three Putt]

Rocs seem confusing, but it's not really all that bad to understand.

The first Roc came out about '87. It was a small diameter 21.2 cm diameter disc based off the XD. In '89 that disc was replaced with the first version of what we consider a Roc today-the 21.7 cm diameter San Marino Roc. This disc quickly became the most popular disc on the market. At the time the Stingray was about as long a disc as you could get, so the Roc was used by many players for almost every shot.

In '94 or '95, something happened to the Roc mold and the disc was replaced with a new version. Innova's mailing address had changed, so the tooling on the new disc said "Ontario." Thus the old disc became the "San Marino" or "Sanny" Roc and the new disc was called the "Ontario" Roc. The Ontario Roc has a higher dome and flips easier than the San Marino's. Because of this they were not very popular and they were replaced in 1997 by the current "Rancho" Roc, so named because Innova moved from Ontario to Rancho Cucamonga and the tooling once again changed. The Rancho Roc is the most overstable Roc yet, and has been hugely popular.

So, there are really only three molds: San Marino, Ontario and Rancho. If you go to the store and buy a DX Roc or a KC Pro Roc, it is a Rancho mold. From most overstable to least overstable they go Rancho-San Marino-Ontario.

When San Marino's and Ontario's were in production, there was only DX plastic. All plastic variations of the Roc such as KC Pro Rocs, Super Rocs and USDGC Roc are Ranchos. The exception are a few collectors USDGC Rocs that have been run in the Ontario and San Marino molds the last two years, but if you don't understand Rocs and you are paying collector USDGC Roc money for a disc...well, you need more help than a post on a message board can give you.

Last year the DX Ontario mold was brought back as a CFR disc. This year they have re-created the DX San Marino Roc in the CFR program and added an Ontario Roc in Star to the CFR program. So you can find some new San Marino's and Ontario's now with tournament stamps. Any Roc you find with he standard factory stamp is still a Rancho. You can still tell the difference by flipping them over and reading the tooling on the underside.

The original 21.2 cm diameter disc came back in '95 as the "Classic Roc." It has the "Roc" name, but it should be considered a completely different unrelated disc to the other Roc's. It is nothing like a Roc.

That's about it. Actually, it is not...but basically that is it.

Edit: This thread came back from the dead, and the saga of the Roc continues. In 2009 they put the recreated San Marino mold into regular production in Star plastic. In 2010 they introduced the Roc+ mold, which features a slanted inner rim. The original PR for it made the Roc+ seem like a disc they were going to sell in Champ and Star, but other than some fundraiser Star's the only plastic I've seen it in is R-Pro.

Edit of the Edit: OK, so... They now have a Star Rancho Roc in Star along with the recreated Star San Marino Roc AND they have a Roc3 mold which they are selling in Champion. So now there are 5 Rocs: Rancho, Roc3, San Marino, Roc+ and Ontario. :\ My original assertion that Rocs were not all that confusing can be freely ignored.