2015 United States Disc Golf Championship

[teemkey]

Second, stand&deliver forces the players to demonstrate a separate skill --- that is, we've already seen them drive with a full run-up, and we see them putt, so let's also separate the fairway shot, instead of just repeating the driving skill.

If it's just about demonstrating separate skills why not require tee shots on even numbered holes backhand, odd number holes forehand, with at least one drive a tomahawk, one a thumber, one a backhand roller, and one a forehand roller? Increases skill requirements and adds strategy.

Just sayin'

 

[grodney]

More challenging on your body and joints.

No proof, and no better than claiming the opposite.

 

[grodney]

If it's just about demonstrating separate skills why not require tee shots on even numbered holes backhand, odd number holes forehand, with at least one drive a tomahawk, one a thumber, one a backhand roller, and one a forehand roller? Increases skill requirements and adds strategy.
'

Silly response is silly.

 

[lyleoross]

Not in favor.

I've been watching the stand and deliver argument for over 15 years now, and honestly, I don't think it's relevant. When you watch the top guys, like McBeth, Doss, Sexton etc. they hit their run ups. It is a different throw that has to be practiced. The truth is that if your competitor foot faults, it's on you to call it. Simple enough, if you give it over, and that guy beats you, you kind of deserve to lose. If you can hit your foot placement, then it's in your favor to be a stickler for the rule. If you aren't, well, bad on you.

I watched the Stokley vs Brown and Climo tapes, and honestly, if Stokley hit his foot placement is was pure luck. Yes, I thought Climo and Brown were snots, but it doesn't matter, it's on Stokley to hit his foot placement, and he didn't even look. I'll repeat that, he didn't even look. To get max distance he threw himself into the shot with abandon. Go watch McBeth; his foot placement is literally perfect. He's learned the run up and concedes certain things on open field throws but he gets it right. Same with Doss. Wysocki has it easy, that forehand gives him a direct line on the target, but even that is a message, that is, learn a forehand for open field drives.

Clearly, you can hit that foot placement. It's hard and technical. And if you don't have the skill, you might want to stand and deliver. But if you can, well, great for you. And to move into the top bracket, you better learn it.

Last, go watch the Dave Feldberg instructional video he did in Alabama two years ago. He talks about tournament prep. One of his comments is on foot placement out of difficult situations. He points out not to put your heal on the disc because you might lift it off on the shot. Clearly the pros take this seriously.

 

[grodney]

I've been watching the stand and deliver argument for over 15 years now, and honestly, I don't think it's relevant.

(Lots of well-thought and very true foot placement stuff deleted.)

The elimination of fairway footfaults would just be gravy, and isn't included in the pro-side argument. The game would be better, and more legitimate, with S&D. I mean whatevs, it's just opinion, but I took that away from watching USDGC more than ever.

 

[Steve West]

Isn't there a S&D thread?

Let's talk about a real rule: did anyone get called for 804.01 Excessive Time at USDGC? If not, why not?

 

[Anon]

Let's talk about a real rule: did anyone get called for 804.01 Excessive Time at USDGC? If not, why not?

Does anybody EVER get called for this at the pro level (or any level for that matter)?

 

[grodney]

Isn't there a S&D thread?

Yeah. I said what caught my eye, and somebody asked what I meant. Helpless/useless/fruitless tanget from there.

 

[brandon21486]

Does anybody EVER get called for this at the pro level (or any level for that matter)?

It appeared to me that it could have been called quite often during the final round at USDGC if anyone cared to call it. How long did Ricky take to line up and complete his half standing sidearm on 15(I think)? That is just one that seemed excessive.

 

[sidewinder22]

No proof, and no better than claiming the opposite.

Go throw 200' shots and let me know which delivery method takes it's toll first.

 

[cjman]

Nikko took 5 minutes to tee on 13 day 3. Fairway was clear and he was second or third to tee. It was strange.

 

[teemkey]

Isn't there a S&D thread?

Let's talk about a real rule: did anyone get called for 804.01 Excessive Time at USDGC? If not, why not?

I think there would have to be specification of the definition of a distraction. Is a wet disc a distraction? Not knowing where the ropes are around a corner or over a hill? Is a difficult legal stance a distraction?

It seems like instead of starting the 30 seconds when the player has had "... a reasonable amount of time to arrive at the disc;" instead of 30 seconds the players are allowing "... a reasonable amount of time determine the required flight line & landing zone, select and prepare the appropriate disc, then, if necessary, time to determine how to obtain a legal stance to make that throw."

 

[DiscJunkie]

It was painful to watch Nikko grind over a 20-25 footer, which he still missed occasionally.
I understand that sometimes, you just don't "feel it", but does it really take 45 seconds, every time, to line up a 25 foot putt?

 

[sprintermatt]

Pursuant to this point: McBeth threw the Nova (successfully) on #17 in the 3d round of the USDGC, also.

Pretty proud to say I mighta gotten Paul throwing the Nova. I was an early adopter and gave him a purty pink and white one to try at USDGC in 2013. He was throwing it during the tournament... of course, I have horrible memory.

 

[JC17393]

The only way excessive time is going to be called is if someone actually steps up and calls it. None of these top players are interested in calling the rule, in part because they ALL like to take their time. Pretty sure it goes uncalled because of an unspoken quid pro quo amongst the players...if one guy calls it, he opens himself up to be called for excessive time himself.

Personally, I think one way to start would be to clarify whether or not the "clock" is reset by any distraction. To me, a literal interpretation of the rule as currently written says that there's no such thing as one's 30 seconds being reset or even paused once it begins. With that clarified, it would at least remove the "I was distracted" excuse for a player who takes 60-90+ seconds to make a throw.

The second step, especially at these larger events where there's plenty of staff and course marshals, is to put groups/players on the clock just like they do in ball golf. One warning about slow play then stopwatches come out and players are held to the 30-second clock when it's their turn to throw. Our competition manual has a section on pace of play and puts the enforcement of it on the TD and staff in addition to the players. For once, it would be nice if it was actually enforced.

 

[tomte]

It was painful to watch Nikko grind over a 20-25 footer, which he still missed occasionally.
I understand that sometimes, you just don't "feel it", but does it really take 45 seconds, every time, to line up a 25 foot putt?

Nope. But I definitely miss more than him.

 

[ToddL]

It's mindblowing that McBeth can shoot just under his rating (1051.75 vs hit rating of 1053) and still win the USDGC by 5 strokes.

Interesting little quirk of the ratings system and being rated 13 points higher than the #2 player in the world. If Ricky finishes 2nd and shoots his rating over 4 rounds, Paul should finish 52 total ratings points ahead of him. On a course like Winthrop, that's 7 or 8 strokes. In order for Paul to beat his rating if the other guys play their average, he is supposed to win by 5+ strokes.

 

[Pbmercil]

It was painful to watch Nikko grind over a 20-25 footer, which he still missed occasionally.
I understand that sometimes, you just don't "feel it", but does it really take 45 seconds, every time, to line up a 25 foot putt?

Paul has said before that he'll never call Nikko for excessive time because he over thinks it and is more likely to miss the longer he takes. Other people probably feel similar.

Aren't backups usually the bigger issue with pace of play at the UDGC? The arguement against calling time on guys would be that their going to be waiting at the next teepad anyway so who cares.

Personally I'd love to see us start empowering TD'S and volunteer officials to start making calls and enforcing rules. I think that would work a lot better

 

[cjman]

Paul has said before that he'll never call Nikko for excessive time because he over thinks it and is more likely to miss the longer he takes. Other people probably feel similar.

Aren't backups usually the bigger issue with pace of play at the UDGC? The arguement against calling time on guys would be that their going to be waiting at the next teepad anyway so who cares.

Personally I'd love to see us start empowering TD'S and volunteer officials to start making calls and enforcing rules. I think that would work a lot better

TDs sure. At Winthrop, there were slow open groups with two+ hole gaps in front of them. If the course director, they had 3 I believe, each responsible for 6 holes, put the group on the clock, the group would be given reason to call a slow player taking excessively long.

Volunteers should never have such a power.

 

[Pbmercil]

Volunteers should never have such a power.

That's why I said "volunteer officials" not just volunteers. I'm not saying give that authority to anyone who's spotting a hole or whatever, but you do need enough people out there with authority to be consistant about it