I doubt that will be the case. Not paying merch in lieu of cash was the rule for about 10 years, until the 2011 update to the Competition Manual. Pro fields weren't smaller nor were top amateurs hesitant to move up early during that time.
There was also, and remains, a trophy-only option for ams playing a pro division. Pay a reduced entry (1/3 to 1/2 of full entry...TD's discretion) and not be eligible to win prizes whether cash or merch. Perhaps now that merch in lieu of cash is again no longer an option, we'll see a resurgence of that trophy-only entry fee.
As for the tweeners playing "down". Good. The tweeners playing "up" tends to lead to a blurring of where division breaks should be (ratings-wise). If the 950-960 "tweeners" are in MA1, maybe the 920ish tweeners will be in MA2 and the 880 tweeners in MA3. Rather than the 880 tweeners being the top of MA2, the 920 tweeners being the top of MA1, and the 950 tweeners donating to MPO.
I get that it wasn't always the case, but I suspect that some TDs, particularly at decent sized pro-am events, were thinking, "hmmm, he wants merch instead of cash. I'll be happy to give him a $400 gift card to the retail shop for merch that I only paid about $250 to stock in the store." I get that it'll change some TDs work at the end of the event, but in my area several TDs only pay the pros electronically anyway; so it's just a matter of pressing button "A" or button "B". No difference -- EXCEPT the TD actually benefits on the margin for Ams taking merch in lieu of cash.
whether it is legal or not you could almost certainly get away with it. actually a good idea although it does reduce the purse a bit.
It seems to me some (pros) are determined to have this hard line between pro and amateur and if their purse is reduced they don't seem to care.
From what I was told...
PDGA feels pros should be current (Agreed). So when I asked "why just dont you require someone playing pro to be current" the answer I got was "if you want to test the waters of pro as an amateur, this allows you to do it while still having the ability to be an amatuer and not be current. There is no way to determine if a player can cash before the event starts."
Robert, the interesting thing, if that's what you were told directly, is again it focuses primarily on the non-member. This doesn't seem to address the long time registered member Ams at all.
Here's the thing...this passing cash down rather than paying out in merch is how it used to work. It's not new. Paying out in merch in lieu of cash added more work to the TD's plate. Going back to a flat decline and pass it down is EASIER for TDs.
And before the argument comes that it isn't that hard to pay merch,... TDs at pro events generally don't have merch available to pay out with. Or a vendor lined up to use for a voucher payout.
Then with pro-am tournaments, there are still True Amateur events where, again, there may be no merch or vendors on hand to do payouts because there is no expectation of merch payouts at all. TDs at those events might have a left over player pack or two, but they're not likely to have much else to choose from for a merch payout, if they even have enough to cover the amount being converted.
From a TD perspective, passing declined cash down is way simpler to deal with than providing merch in lieu of cash. If I were to guess, this was a move driven by TDs more than by players.
JC, I'll take you at your word. But in today's electronic world, I'll still disagree that it's easier on the TD to not pay merch in lieu of cash.
First, if it's a pro-only event, no problem. Ams playing here know upfront there's no merch.
If the TD has no vendor at a pro-Am event, and/or barely has enough merch to cover the existing expected Ams to get payout, I also get it. There's not gonna be any/enough merch at these event. Not trying to FORCE a TD to have merch when he has none on site. But having something on-site seems to be everyone's focus here, yet we have very quickly become an online world. You could do continue the practice of Am taking merch in lieu with the understanding he/she might not get it today, might have to get a gift certificate/store credit/online-vendor-whatever. It doesn't have to also be
convenient for the Am cashing in the pro division. As I said above, I know at least one TD that does everything online. He pays all the pros electronically, and emails all the Ams their online gift card and/or listing in his store within 24 hours after the event. So in this case it's not different whether he's doing one version of electronic payment to Samuel Pro or to Jimmy Am.
Now the part in the red -- like I said, I'll take you at your word, but it doesn't seem to make sense to me that the TD wouldn't gladly get the markup from the merch he's gonna give that Am and send out one less pro payment. The TD actually makes a profit if he does that.
Not sure if this has been covered, but here goes:
So..an amateur may play in a pro division, but cannot accept cash or merchandise in lieu of cash.
Can the pro playing in an amateur division accept merchandise?
Not sure if the geese and ganders are on the same page with this update of the competition manual.
According to the rules in the CC, yes. SO they made a rule that is not reciprocal.
Pros aren't going to be turning Am if they accept prizes, though. If you want a reward of value for placing well in a pro division, it is cash, period. Take it and turn pro or decline it to stay am. It's a binary decision rather than a layered decision based on the form of compensation.
To me, if you want to argue that ams deserve merch in lieu of cash in a pro division, then pros should be able to take cash in lieu of merch in an am division.
See Alan's (AByrd) response. Then make it the exact same rules for both groups subbing the words pro for am in both cases.
It might be, but I'm not really the best to answer this. I don't think we should be looking for "easy" ways to encourage ams to play pro. I'm not that interested in encouraging ams to play pro at all...certainly not if they need to be bribed with player packs to do so.
I'm fine with ams playing pro if they choose, with the explicit understanding that they only do so if they either a) accept cash and turn pro if they place well enough or b) accept that they'll get nothing (but a trophy) no matter where they finish if they wish to remain amateur.
I'm not sure what's gained by bribing players to play a pro division if they're not inclined to be a pro. Sure, there may be players on the cusp who want to "test the waters" but if that's truly their intent, then the discounted entry fee should be sufficient for them to do so without paying full fare and "donating" for the opportunity.
A lot of these conversations I've been involved in on this topic seem to have the background of the talk that they are speaking primarily/only of MA1s "floating in" to play in MPO. Those are always two large divisions that rarely have trouble in any tournament making when offered. It is a totally different story in age-protected and women's divisions. It's not unusual, even at local A-tiers with added cash to have only a couple pro women register, or a couple pro grandmasters, etc. For me locally and what I've heard, these groups are happy to have a few Ams playing up to make a division. And maybe they're just faking me, but I've never heard a complaint when I finished in the cash ahead of someone. Maybe I did four or five times in 20+ events. These pros aren't trying to hardline the Pro/Am separation; they just want to have a decent number of people in the field in my age division.
Taken directly from the PDGA Facebook page about 20 mins ago.
Update to provide context for the 2018 Competition Manual for Disc Golf - Section 1.10 (October 19th, 2017)
The changes in this section came about for various reasons after many, many PDGA Competition Committee discussions that included other PDGA BOD and Staff members alike. Some of the most notable talking points that helped push these changes were as follows:
• Amateur player complaints (and a BOD request) concerning a player winning an Amateur Worlds title despite previously accepting cash in a Professional division, in a PDGA-sanctioned event, prior to becoming a PDGA member.
• Amateur player and Tournament Director complaints about non-members jumping back and forth and "poaching" both cash in Professional divisions and merchandise in Amateur divisions.
• Professional player complaints about non-members and Amateur members taking winnings out of the Pro divisions purses.
• Tournament Director complaints about having to come up with large quantities of merchandise to payout Amateurs in Pro divisions.
...
Of the four bullets:
1 is about TDs complaining. Really? they complained about having to dole out merch and keep the markup profit margin. But it was too much trouble. C'mon. There's always stuff. The TD can't make out all the pro checks in advance and then write the names in. The payouts get skewed by how many ties there are past first place, etc.
2 1/2 of the other 3 are about non-members. Simple solution -- make it required to be a member to play in an event. THAT, my friends, is not unreasonable. But the other 1/2 punishes the long time register PDGA member Am. It just does.
Which is why amateurs should have to declare their intent to decline cash BEFORE the event starts. Or at the very least, before the awards ceremony begins. There's no reason for that to not come up until during awards.
As a TD back the last time that this was the rule, I always asked any players I knew to be amateurs who might decline the cash to make the decision before awards. At a couple tournaments, I even put an (A) on their scoreport card so it was clear.
I'd 100% support this. In fact, I always tell the TD, if not before the tournament, certainly before the last round if I am playing well, that he doesn't need to figure out pay for me. I'll happily accept a store or vendor credit or whatever is left available.