2023 Beaver State Fling

[oddjob]

You're a mosquito.

Mosquitoes are actually critical to the environment

Unlike yourself.

 

[glassila]

I heard the announcers discuss the ropes a couple of times. They said the caddy book indicated that ropes could be moved, but the TD had announced that the ropes could not be moved.
They were confused about it and I don't think they ever said what the correct call was.

 

[txmxer]

I think what GG was looking for was to get further left so he had a slightly better angle.

He/they were treating the ropes like OB even though that was incorrect if they were just spectator ropes as said.

GG was making a point about the line of play because the ropes interfered with his desired run up.

Ultimately it's a bunch of stuff we've discussed here.

As far as moving the ropes—I didn't see Cole's lie, but I assume the ropes were actually in his lie. Even if the ropes are casual they can't be moved unless in your lie/stance. Run up and follow through are not guaranteed.

 

[Hampstead]

Mosquitoes are actually critical to the environment

Unlike yourself.

And they spread diseases.

Much like yourself.

 

[oddjob]

And they spread diseases.

Much like yourself.

Are you trying to be ironic by pointing out humans spread diseases? You know, the whole world grinding to a halt a couple of years ago?

On second thought that's giving you too much credit.

 

[Hampstead]

Are you trying to be ironic by pointing out humans spread diseases? You know, the whole world grinding to a halt a couple of years ago?

On second thought that's giving you too much credit.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Is there a video of this somewhere? Sounds like people are talking about two different things:

a. can you move the spectator (i.e. not OB) ropes, which sounds unclear what the ruling on site was, and which nevertheless obviously should be the same for all

b. if you can get "free" relief back along the line of play

B. is easy:

803.02 Relief from Obstacles
Last updated: Saturday, December 31, 2022 - 22:58
A. A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: harmful insects or animals, people, or any item as designated by the Director. To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief (unless greater relief is announced by the Director).
B. If an obstacle physically prevents the player from taking a legal stance behind the marker disc, or from marking a disc above or below the playing surface, the player may mark a new lie on the line of play immediately behind that obstacle.
C. A player who takes relief other than as allowed by rule above receives one penalty throw.
D. A player may elect at any time to take optional relief by declaring their intention to the group. The lie may then be relocated by marking a new lie which is farther from the target and is on the line of play. One penalty throw is added to the player's score.
E. No penalty throw is added if optional relief is being taken following a penalty taken for a disc out-of-bounds or above two meters.

 

[txmxer]

The rope in question was not parallel to the line of play. The further back he moved the closer to the rope he would be. I suppose at that point moving the rope becomes an option.

 

[seedlings]

I couldn't find Redalen's shot- don't remember which hole, but front nine of r2 (I think). See the official on blue/green in this video? That's the same guy Redalen talked to, and said it was OK to drop the ropes, while the official watched him do it and throw.

This is hole 15 of the final round, just over 3h into the DGN broadcast.

 

[@CD-]

Is there a video of this somewhere? Sounds like people are talking about two different things:

a. can you move the spectator (i.e. not OB) ropes, which sounds unclear what the ruling on site was, and which nevertheless obviously should be the same for all

b. if you can get "free" relief back along the line of play

B. is easy:

Redalen situation (R1 hole 15) https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxWjTkXrTNuHP1wUpuQC32-SyrGwsNYs4p
Round 1 the TD had to allow the moving of the spectator ropes - communication via player meeting or player check-in contradicted the caddy book on if the spectator ropes could be moved. Redalen's situation was in R1 and you can see the stake for the ropes was basically his lie and 1m casual relief would have put him into a patch of rough. He opted to pull the stake and lay the spectator rope down and throw a standstill FH.

GG situation (R3 hole 15) https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxNxjfsg7ZkBk9nyRC7lweGxjnjiarlQ9H
I believe Terry Miller reported (on DGN live broadcast) that after R1 additional TD communication was sent out to clarify that the ropes/stakes could not be moved for R2 or R3 and only 1m casual relief was granted. Gurthie's lie was more than 1m back on the line of play from the ropes but he wanted more relief from the ropes to his right and in front for runup/follow-through. You can see he did make contact with the ropes from the clip above after not getting any relief. The runup + throw & angle (controlled power turning anhyzer around the trees) he chose was what brought the spectator ropes into his swing.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Yeah seems pretty cut&dry then. Just people mixing up the two things. And the fact that between rounds things can change, as long as its communicated to the players.

 

[seedlings]

I didn't know there was a rule interpretation change between r1 and r2.

 

[kyflash]

Yeah seems pretty cut&dry then. Just people mixing up the two things. And the fact that between rounds things can change, as long as its communicated to the players.

Everyone loves Tery Miller (myself included) if he said there was a rule change after CR moved the rope, he was either told wrong or the TD is a moron.

You should have the same conditions of play regarding relief in all rounds.
A player benefited in R1 should allow consistency in all rounds.

 

[txmxer]

I agree that arbitrary rules changes seem wrong.

There are times when changes might be necessary or appropriate, but just saying you can't move the ropes would be a change because the TD didn't like the original choice.

 

[@CD-]

From the caddie book:
"Players may treat all spectator ropes and stakes as casual obstacles per PDGA Rule 803.01 (B) (1) if they are inbounds."

This in and of itself would require a waiver since the ropes were not on the playing surface but given the idea that a waiver had been granted both GG and Calvin were wrong and he was entitled to move it (the rope) but no other relief.

803.01 Moving Obstacles

B. A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course, with the following exceptions:
1) A player may move casual obstacles that are on the playing surface where a supporting point may be placed when taking a stance. A casual obstacle is any item or collection of loose debris (such as stones, leaves, twigs, or unconnected branches), or any item as designated by the Director. Objects intentionally placed as part of the course or event are not casual obstacles.

GG's lie was behind the casual obstacle (spectator rope & stakes) so his supporting point could not legally be placed in front when taking his stance. Potentially the one stake to the right of his lie was at or behind his mini marker but its really hard to determine based on the angle he points to for the basket location in the video clip. That means he may not have been able to move the casual obstacle at all.

803.02 Relief from Obstacles
A. A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: harmful insects or animals, people, or any item as designated by the Director. To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief (unless greater relief is announced by the Director).

Since GG's lie was behind the rope/stakes, he also could not take casual relief because he could take a lie that was unaffected by the obstacle - he was clear both on & behind the lie.

The caddy book does not specify the spectator rope/stakes in the list of objects that get TD designated casual relief - https://www.dgpt.com/event/beaver-state-fling-2023/. This may be where the communication confusion around moving a designated casual obstacle vs. obtaining casual relief from an object if the player check-in/meeting also designated the spectator ropes as part of the list for objects receiving casual relief.

The last line of the rule 803.01.B.1 makes me think spectator rope/stakes should never be treated as casual obstacles or objects granting greater relief. They are narrow enough and elevated off the playing surface to not obstruct a legal lie from being taken (runup/follow through not guaranteed).

 

[jeffmonty]

He's a 15-16 year old kid (born in '07) who got 2nd in MJ12 at Junior Worlds in 2019 and 4th in MJ15 in 2021, at 14 years of age.

I've seen him in some DD vids and know he was a part of their group of bomber Junior players they sponsored.

His rating has gone up 30-70 points every year, and he looks to be on track to crack 1020 this year, and it wouldn't surprise me if he got to 1030. We'll be seeing more of him in the future if he keeps it up.

Carter's one of our locals, along with his brother Tyler. They're known around here as The Crush Brothers. Look for him this weekend at the Cascade Challenge Silver Series at our local course Shelton Springs, he knows that course intimately. (So does Nate Sexton, Chandler Fry and Kyle Crabtree) This will be the first DGPT event in Washington State, I'm excited!

 

[Flick Maniac]

I vividly recall a time when James Conrad step putted on USDGC #14, leap frogging the rope in the process and sinking the putt. Can be done, entertainingly even.

 

[@CD-]

Carter's one of our locals, along with his brother Tyler. They're known around here as The Crush Brothers. Look for him this weekend at the Cascade Challenge Silver Series at our local course Shelton Springs, he knows that course intimately. (So does Nate Sexton, Chandler Fry and Kyle Crabtree) This will be the first DGPT event in Washington State, I'm excited!

DGPT selected Ahrens for R1 Feature card alongside McMahon, Barela, and Hammes at Cascade Challenge :thmbup:. They seem to feature anyone that has a good showing in the final round(s) of the last event that didn't make the live coverage (plus being top rated local).

 

[DanJon]

Drew Gibson was on the internets complaining about payout at this year's BSG versus 2013.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but given that they had an AM side in 2013 and it no longer has the same level of prestige, the payouts kind of make sense.

I feel like context is important.

 

[foxdawg10]

DGPT selected Ahrens for R1 Feature card alongside McMahon, Barela, and Hammes at Cascade Challenge :thmbup:. They seem to feature anyone that has a good showing in the final round(s) of the last event that didn't make the live coverage (plus being top rated local).

I wonder if Hammes was included on the featured card as a sponsor's choice - Discraft.
His 2023 finishes don't warrant it. Hopefully this kick starts his season.