2023 Innova Blue Ridge Championship at North Cove (DGPT Silver)

[dmoore1998]

For me, that is key. It was his decision. He made it and he is okay with how it turned out.

PMB has basically said that finishes no longer matter to him. He is out there to win and pretty much plays based on "if ya ain't first you're last. "

The luxury of being one of two players in the goat discussion I guess.

As great as Ricky is, I think it was last year that he played TX states following a game plan. The announcers talked about it specifically. I can't fault BW for sticking to his plan.

Can we fault him for having a terrible game plan though? Any "game plan" that says "I'm ignoring what's actually happening and just doing what I planned to do regardless of how smart or stupid it is" is not a good game plan.

Did Ricky play TX States with a game plan of "I'm playing 17 and 18 on the final day in the way I already decided, regardless of what the scores are"?

It's one thing to have a game plan...it's another thing to decide you're not going to adjust to what's actually happening in the competition.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Can we fault him for having a terrible game plan though? Any "game plan" that says "I'm ignoring what's actually happening and just doing what I planned to do regardless of how smart or stupid it is" is not a good game plan.

Did Ricky play TX States with a game plan of "I'm playing 17 and 18 on the final day in the way I already decided, regardless of what the scores are"?

It's one thing to have a game plan...it's another thing to decide you're not going to adjust to what's actually happening in the competition.

BWs game plan was about cashing as high as feasible with what he was capable of doing against the course. Winning would simply be a bonus. The reality on tour (and recreational pro competition in general) taking big risks to winning/finishing higher is less important than cashing or securing a higher cashing position for a good portion, perhaps a majority, of the regularly touring players, especially when presented with some potential "train wreck" finishing holes.

 

[dmoore1998]

BWs game plan was about cashing as high as feasible with what he was capable of doing against the course. Winning would simply be a bonus. The reality on tour (and recreational pro competition in general) taking big risks to winning/finishing higher is less important than cashing or securing a higher cashing position for a good portion, perhaps a majority, of the regularly touring players, especially when presented with some potential "train wreck" finishing holes.

His stated game plan was he was playing those holes for par, no matter what. That's a terrible game plan. If his plan was what you stated, which it wasn't, that would have been fine.

If he doesn't want to go for it on 18 as things actually played out, that's fine IMO. Not going for it because his gameplan was "no matter what, I'm playing it for par" is stupid. What if they're the only group still on the course on 17, he's 1 back of the leader in the clubhouse and 5 shots clear of 3rd? Would it still be a good idea for him to play it for par because that's his plan and he's playing against the course?

I think it's justifiable to say he played it safe, and maybe safe was smart even if he didn't have the killer instinct to go for the win given the actual information he had at the time and his assessment of risk/reward. I don't think it's justifiable to say that he made a game plan of playing the hole a specific way beforehand and that he was going to stick with that no matter what the circumstances were.

 

[txmxer]

His stated game plan was he was playing those holes for par, no matter what. That's a terrible game plan. If his plan was what you stated, which it wasn't, that would have been fine.

If he doesn't want to go for it on 18 as things actually played out, that's fine IMO. Not going for it because his gameplan was "no matter what, I'm playing it for par" is stupid. What if they're the only group still on the course on 17, he's 1 back of the leader in the clubhouse and 5 shots clear of 3rd? Would it still be a good idea for him to play it for par because that's his plan and he's playing against the course?

I think it's justifiable to say he played it safe, and maybe safe was smart even if he didn't have the killer instinct to go for the win given the actual information he had at the time and his assessment of risk/reward. I don't think it's justifiable to say that he made a game plan of playing the hole a specific way beforehand and that he was going to stick with that no matter what the circumstances were.

You are making up a scenario to criticize what actually happened. If he was 10 strokes in front of 3rd and 1 down to the lead maybe he does do something different. That wasn't the situation so why would you expect him to go through all these hypotheticals to satisfy you or anyone else?

 

[dmoore1998]

You are making up a scenario to criticize what actually happened. If he was 10 strokes in front of 3rd and 1 down to the lead maybe he does do something different. That wasn't the situation so why would you expect him to go through all these hypotheticals to satisfy you or anyone else?

That's precisely the problem with having a static strategy that you're intent on performing regardless of the circumstances. I think what he actually did is defendable given what was happening...if the reason for the defense of the action is "he decided ahead of time he was going to do that no matter what the circumstances were" which is how it was portrayed...that's not really defendable.

I'm not criticizing what ACTUALLY happened...I'm criticizing the stated strategy that he was going to do that no matter what the circumstances were. My hypothetical is an illustration of what that kind of "I don't care about circumstances, I already decided what to do" strategy is terrible.

Defense of his play based on "well at this point he had this information, and then at this point he had this information, and then this risk still existed...etc etc" is logical and fine...even though different folks might get to different conclusions. Defense of his play, which I've heard a LOT, of "he made up his mind long before that he was going to play both holes for par no matter what"...is terrible.

 

[txmxer]

That's precisely the problem with having a static strategy that you're intent on performing regardless of the circumstances. I think what he actually did is defendable given what was happening...if the reason for the defense of the action is "he decided ahead of time he was going to do that no matter what the circumstances were" which is how it was portrayed...that's not really defendable.

I'm not criticizing what ACTUALLY happened...I'm criticizing the stated strategy that he was going to do that no matter what the circumstances were. My hypothetical is an illustration of what that kind of "I don't care about circumstances, I already decided what to do" strategy is terrible.

Defense of his play based on "well at this point he had this information, and then at this point he had this information, and then this risk still existed...etc etc" is logical and fine...even though different folks might get to different conclusions. Defense of his play, which I've heard a LOT, of "he made up his mind long before that he was going to play both holes for par no matter what"...is terrible.

I get it, but it still requires reading into it something that didn't happen.

He said it was his plan all along and he basically said that if things played out more or less like they did, he would stick to his plan. He did that.

Nobody proposed the type of hypothetical you describe so it wasn't addressed. It didn't happen so no way of knowing if he would have taken the risk if all these variables aligned such that it was low risk with big reward.

 

[DanJon]

You know disc golf is growing when you get an influx of armchair quarterbacks who have never won a large PDGA event telling touring pros how they should play.

 

[dmoore1998]

You know disc golf is growing when you get an influx of armchair quarterbacks who have never won a large PDGA event telling touring pros how they should play.

I mean some things are kind of common sense. If you see a basketball team down 1 point in a Game 7 and they just dribble the clock out...you don't have to be an NBA champion to say "that was dumb".

BW has done a decent job of walking through his thought process on those last holes...but he did also kind of admit if he'd had a caddie to point out what the best strategy was, he probably would have at least run that birdie throw on 18.

 

[foxdawg10]

I mean some things are kind of common sense. If you see a basketball team down 1 point in a Game 7 and they just dribble the clock out...you don't have to be an NBA champion to say "that was dumb".

BW has done a decent job of walking through his thought process on those last holes...but he did also kind of admit if he'd had a caddie to point out what the best strategy was, he probably would have at least run that birdie throw on 18.

1 - Link to where he "kind of" admitted this. I'm not sure what a caddie would have added.

2 - Bradley Williams has been playing at a high level for at least 16 years. And over 1020 rated for 12 years.

I trust his judgement in this situation

 

[BillFleming]

At the "end of the day", what does it matter how Bradley Williams chose to play a hole/shot? Did you have money on the line for how he would do? Seriously, it's his game, it's his placement, it's his choice of how to play. If he doesn't care, why should we? He chose to do what HE wanted to do at that moment....we might discuss why the decision was made...but it was his decision.

 

[dmoore1998]

1 - Link to where he "kind of" admitted this. I'm not sure what a caddie would have added.

2 - Bradley Williams has been playing at a high level for at least 16 years. And over 1020 rated for 12 years.

I trust his judgement in this situation

It's on the Tour Life podcast where they interviewed him. He basically said a caddie might have slowed him down, talked out the situation, and would have helped him slow down and think about it in the rain so he wasn't rushing quite so much.

 

[EarthRocker]

Awfully rude to call someone's thought processes "dumb" and "stupid" repeatedly. Not every held opinion needs to be expressed, he said, fully aware of the irony of having an opinion about opinions.

 

[dmoore1998]

Awfully rude to call someone's thought processes "dumb" and "stupid" repeatedly. Not every held opinion needs to be expressed, he said, fully aware of the irony of having an opinion about opinions.

Sorry, I should have said "that thought process can only be attributed to someone of the lowest 10th percentile in intelligence".

But is it awfully rude to call someone awfully rude? Or is it ok because it's true? In which case isn't it ok to call someone's thought process dumb if that's also true? I'm gonna have to diagram this one out into a chart.

 

[foxdawg10]

It's on the Tour Life podcast where they interviewed him. He basically said a caddie might have slowed him down, talked out the situation, and would have helped him slow down and think about it in the rain so he wasn't rushing quite so much.

...ponders the logistics of hiring a caddie for just one shot in a torrential downpour....

Since we are engaging in wild speculation now, my take is the caddie would have said " let's get out of here dude, it's getting crappy now.".

 

[dmoore1998]

...ponders the logistics of hiring a caddie for just one shot in a torrential downpour....

Since we are engaging in wild speculation now, my take is the caddie would have said " let's get out of here dude, it's getting crappy now.".

So BW admits that he probably didn't make the best decision at the time...but now you're saying you disagree with his thinking?

 

[txmxer]

So BW admits that he probably didn't make the best decision at the time...but now you're saying you disagree with his thinking?

No...it's about not judging his choices at all after taking a second on a difficult course to the "#1 ranked player in the world"

If BW thinks he should have gone for it in hindsight--maybe he should have.

But, his strategy for the event put him in second amongst some very good disc golfers.

If he goes for it, drops a big number and drops a few spots, as fans, we will all congratulate him on his effort but we aren't the ones that are gonna eat beans and rice for the next month and stay in Bed Bugs R US motel.

 

[foxdawg10]

So BW admits that he probably didn't make the best decision at the time...but now you're saying you disagree with his thinking?

You are reading way too much into everything.

 

[zontar]

is this thread for real? asking for a friend.

 

[txmxer]

is this thread for real? asking for a friend.

Welcome to the era of alternative facts.

 

[wolfhaley]

is this thread for real? asking for a friend.

It started out good...

I'll be honest, I skipped a LOT of the bickering in the recent posts. Don't care that much.

I'm just here to say that I loved these courses. What a breath of fresh air for the DGPT. I hope this gets bumped up next year. That'd be my game plan, tell me how stupid it is. And......Go!!!