500’ standstills - approach to teaching fundamentals

[Tinkles]

Keeps it simple, letting your body do what it does. This is a condensed version of a lot of good info IMO. I know this may not work for all. My frame of reference is having a sports background so decades of athletics help with bracing and weight shift, and maybe if you don't have that your body will need to learn to brace, but for me at least this is a great simple video for people that know the basics of terminology and grip without getting too deep into body mechanics.

The exception is the straight line part but as a "feel" queue I think it's fine and probably helpful for many. It only becomes an issue if you have a camera looking down and actually work to make it all a straight line.

 

[Sheep]

I'm pretty sure I know who that guy is. And he's played like. not even a year yet.

I'd have to see if Nick confirms it's the same guy. But it's one of the main reasons I left that discord.

Might be a bit over a year now.
He's a very muscled thrower. I'd personally not listen to him.

Ehh, maybe he has some good ques for people.
But, yeah. I'll just shut up.

 

[Tinkles]

His name is Clint - saw it in his Reddit thread where he was talking about playing for ~10 months. He also appears to be a power lifter so def has some explosive neuromuscular advantages.

 

[Sheep]

His name is Clint - saw it in his Reddit thread where he was talking about playing for ~10 months. He also appears to be a power lifter so def has some explosive neuromuscular advantages.

Yeeeep that's him.

He wanted to constantly argue on the discord about form stuff.

He's a nice dude. but...

*sigh*
I'm so sick of the internet now.

The only person I know who legit throws 500 foot standstills is Graham Russell. Even your top level elite pro's cannot throw 500 foot standstills.

I'm just gonna say, Nice guy. Meat head, but nice guy.

 

[BenjiHeywood]

I'm not sold, personally, but then I'm a pretty negative kind of guy most of the time. I can throw standstills at 60-odd mph, and I'm nearly 50 and can't - i mean literally can't - do a push up. With his muscular advantages, 500 feet ought to be very achievable.

He's got some interesting thoughts, but i think it's a little early in his own journey to be posting this sort of thing.

 

[BenjiHeywood]

The only person I know who legit throws 500 foot standstills is Graham Russell. Even your top level elite pro's cannot throw 500 foot standstills.

I reckon a bunch of them actually could throw 500 foot standstills, in a field, given 20 goes at it (and if they weren't worried what injuries they might pick up from overstraining). Which is probably what Clint could do. If he genuinely had 500 feet of consistent usable power, he'd be quite something.

 

[HyzerRoc]

I'm not sold, personally, but then I'm a pretty negative kind of guy most of the time. I can throw standstills at 60-odd mph, and I'm nearly 50 and can't - i mean literally can't - do a push up. With his muscular advantages, 500 feet ought to be very achievable.

dont feel too bad about that, you got something in common with the biggest crushers out there

 

[BenjiHeywood]

I mean, they're not great, but i literally couldn't do one properly.

So you're telling me if i could do 5 push ups like Simon, i could throw 700?

Be right back, I've got a YouTube video to make...

 

[Sheep]

I reckon a bunch of them actually could throw 500 foot standstills, in a field, given 20 goes at it (and if they weren't worried what injuries they might pick up from overstraining). Which is probably what Clint could do. If he genuinely had 500 feet of consistent usable power, he'd be quite something.

Having done form checks on him.
He's...

"hulk smash" only.

But wanted to sit and argue with us trying to help him with his form, telling us we were wrong, while he had only been playing like 4 months.
But he could throw 500 feet, so we were obviously idiots.

I have a guy here that I hold a course doubles record with. Dude used to throw 480+. Big built ripped dude. He just would muscle crush shots so far. Till one day he couldn't. He had to take a 3 to 4 month break to let his shoulder heal. He was in shape, but our body can't just sit there and get it and rip it like that with that kind of abuse.

Now he's happy with his 300-350 foot throws, and every now and then gets em out to 400. He slowed down, used his body more and he's been successfully playing since.

Point being, just cause you throw far doesn't mean you're not doing it like an idiot.

 

[Sheep]

I mean, they're not great, but i literally couldn't do one properly.

So you're telling me if i could do 5 push ups like Simon, i could throw 700?

Be right back, I've got a YouTube video to make...

Someone gave me a push up challenge a while back.

I hadn't done any in years, Dropped down and put up 20 push ups.
like..
damn.

Paid for it the next day a little though. bit of shoulder strain. hahaha
But that means I can throw 700 feet right? =D

 

[Tinkles]

Are we arguing that physical fitness doesn't improve throwing?
No one is saying that doing pushups = max distance. Where is that strawman coming from?

If you don't think that a guy throwing 500' from a standstill after 10 months playing can teach you something, then we are of two different perspectives there.

I think we can all accept that exercise both aerobic and anaerobic can/will help sport performance. Please don't send me into some edge case hell about a 80lb marathon runner who lifted their way into irrelevance. There are studies and meta analysis that show strength training increases performance in sports. There is a reason top athletes in most cases are taking care of their bodies from a strength and conditioning perspective.

I do think training for power will improve power output in sports. I don't think it is just a function of power output from stronger muscles but also the neuromuscular advantages created in being able to recruit the muscles more effectively.

I do suspect that kids learning a sport also have advantages also in neuromuscular recruitment and adaptations. They are also not afraid of hurting themselves which helps in this regard.

If Simon and Eagle added 200lbs to their 1RM on their squat, I do think that would result in at least nominal gains in their velocity. They are so good already at sequencing muscles in the right order at the right time and have been doing it so long that their mind/body connection in that regard is extremely optimized. For their level improvements are going to be marginal but power/speed training is a place they can see some of those marginal gains.

Back to the topic here. I liked that this guy isn't going off on marginal things like off-hand movement, and is instead talking about what I consider the basic fundamentals of the throw - extending the shoulder and getting in the pocket, aka not hugging yourself, starting with a standstill, starting from a position you would like to get dynamically into.

I think a lot of people come here looking for help and get into discussions about off arm, hip thrust, deep thumb grip, etc... which are all interesting topics but not something anyone new should be looking at. This video is a good foundation for new people IMO.

 

[Kennets]

I liked the video to an extent.

But as sheep said, that discord is next to unbearable at times. Most of the guys in here are willing to listen and debate topics - in that discord, people tend to think that "I can throw xxx, therefore I'm a form guru and my opinion matters the most". The second they were riding "coach" T's nuts, I were outta there.

That fucking hulk-build guy we got in here (nick?) That throws 700 is a great humble guy and I REALLY like his videos. He listened to SW and Brychanus with an "interest" in stuff..

The guy above doesn't gives me the same vibes, at least not in that discord.


Wether the video is good or not - its spacstic to makes instructional videos when you barely played a year. Doing videos with your "journey" to better form is a whole other thing though - sharing stuff that made your swing better in a manner that doesn't make you look like "coach", is the way to go.

 

[RowingBoats]

I guess I am kind of confused about how people use terminology. A 500' standstill is a beast of a throw IMO, and one that cannot be 'muscled' in the way I use that word in the RHBH context. People having a muscular, athletic build does not automatically mean they are 'muscling' the disc. To me muscling the disc is using your arm out of sequence, and this simply cannot be done to throw a disc that far.

The only thing I saw (I didnt dissect this video much, so donno if there is more), that bugs me, is the 'straight line' and weird 12 o'clock release point description. I don't understand why people describe it this way because altering that mental concept is one of the core fundamental things that makes the swing easy for me. Mentally manipulating my conception of where I am truly snapping the shit out of a disc is one of the most impactful tools that I have.

I will say that as an overall goal, simplifying the swing into a more holistic concept is by far the best way I have found to make progress from sucking to having a fairly powerful and efficient swing. I'd personally take that further and say that a TON of the minutia that gets discussed are concepts that you naturally start doing when you have a basic, solid swing down. A lot of people get caught up trying to attack this from the reverse direction and its just not what worked for me ( I definitely did it though).

As a slightly but not entirely unrelated observation, there seems to be a weird aversion to actual athleticism in the disc golf community, as if it is not desirable in this sport. If you are truly interested in EITHER peak performance OR how to develop a truly injury proof swing, athleticism is a key component of both of those things. Having stronger, more flexible muscles is something every single person should be working towards no matter what other activity you do. It makes your whole life better imo.

 

[BenjiHeywood]

Are we arguing that physical fitness doesn't improve throwing?
No one is saying that doing pushups = max distance. Where is that strawman coming from?

I dunno, i was just joking around about the Simon video, not intending to make a point about anything. Sorry if that came across the wrong way.

If you don't think that a guy throwing 500' from a standstill after 10 months playing can teach you something, then we are of two different perspectives there.

I think i could learn something from him for sure. He's definitely doing things I'm not, and they might help me. Whether he's in a position to teach things is less clear.

It's difficult to put out content about one specific thing you have found that helps, because you feel the need to explain all the rest of the throw and how it relates to your insight. At 10 months he might well have had a great insight, but I'm not sold on the idea that he can contextualise that and make a video telling people the best way to learn, what to focus on in practice etc.

I watched it, I'm interested in some of what he says, I'm not dismissing it simply because he hasn't played that long - but i agree with the post above that 'this worked for me' or 'this is my journey' would be a more realistic way to frame the content.

 

[Tinkles]

I liked the video to an extent.

But as sheep said, that discord is next to unbearable at times. Most of the guys in here are willing to listen and debate topics - in that discord, people tend to think that "I can throw xxx, therefore I'm a form guru and my opinion matters the most". The second they were riding "coach" T's nuts, I were outta there.

That fucking hulk-build guy we got in here (nick?) That throws 700 is a great humble guy and I REALLY like his videos. He listened to SW and Brychanus with an "interest" in stuff..

The guy above doesn't gives me the same vibes, at least not in that discord.

How do I join the discord? I'm really old

In fairness, I may be missing a lot of the context on this particular person seeming unreceptive to having a dialogue.

 

[Tinkles]

Want y'all to know that I am working on my comma challenged writing style.

The only person I know who legit throws 500 foot standstills is Graham Russell. Even your top level elite pro's cannot throw 500 foot standstills.

Know any videos of this guy? Google turned up a 2015 in the bag but was struggling to find more.

 

[RowingBoats]

Want y'all to know that I am working on my comma challenged writing style.

Know any videos of this guy? Google turned up a 2015 in the bag but was struggling to find more.

I could only find older videos of him too. I always like watching people who dedicate some real time to a solid standstill shot and have always been sad there isn't more coverage of GR.

 

[Tinkles]

I could only find older videos of him too. I always like watching people who dedicate some real time to a solid standstill shot and have always been sad there isn't more coverage of GR.

Graham is actually the top comment in the reddit thread.

 

[RowingBoats]

Graham is actually the top comment in the reddit thread.

Man, this guy is giving off immense attention whore vibes, not gonna lie.

Both of his YT video's have clickbait titles and a reddit AMA for a sub year long player lol...kinda weird.

I even tried to find a video of him like...throwing a 500' standstill and can't find one.

 

[HyzerRoc]

Are we arguing that physical fitness doesn't improve throwing?
No one is saying that doing pushups = max distance. Where is that strawman coming from?

It is more of a running joke that two of the biggest crushers in the game cant even do a pushup. It also proves a point that some strength is not needed to throw far. However that video is also about them doing workouts so they wont throw their arms out so maybe it is still smart to do some pushups.

I would agree on the squats from personal experience. Especially one legged squats help building some strength to control the knee and hip and help prevent injury in the knee. When I hurt my knee the program prescribed to me consisted of one legged stabilisation exercises, squats and differenty types of lunges.