888 or 999 for DNF?

[tbonesocrul]

The change and the omitted hole rule was implemented to handle emergency situations where the player had to leave the course for a time but returned before the end of the round. It was prompted by an incident at USDGC in which a player was called away to deal with an emergency with his child, who was in the care of tournament provided daycare. He left his group for 4-5 holes then once his child was okay, he returned to finish the round. Such a situation seems a fair reason for such a rule. Extending it to cover non-emergency departures kinda rubs me the wrong way.

Is it reasonable to assume it could be used for a bathroom break in a tournament. Its never happened to me during a tournament round, but during some casual rounds when I've been sick this has helped immensely.

 

[JC17393]

Is it reasonable to assume it could be used for a bathroom break in a tournament. Its never happened to me during a tournament round, but during some casual rounds when I've been sick this has helped immensely.

Well sure, I'd categorize that as an emergency. I've had to run off to the men's room (or reasonable facsimiles) at a tournament or two. Fortunately, I've never missed a hole to do so as either it happened during a back-up or the tourney wasn't full so my group could afford to wait an extra minute or two without disrupting anything. But were I in a situation where I had to skip a hole for such an emergency, I'd do it.

To me, the non-emergency situations where the rule gets stretched are the "I have to skip the last four holes because I have a dinner reservation with my wife" or "I've got tickets to the ball game" kind of things.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

There should be some impetus on the TD to follow up with the player if able to determine why they left post-hoc.

Nope. The player should be responsible for obeying the rules and deal with whatever penalty comes his/her way for violation. If there is a legitimate reason for leaving without notifying the TD, the player should contact the TD later and tell him/her.

I really can't imagine a scenario where the leaving player can't tell his cardmates that he has to leave because of an emergency, but even if such a situation arose, the player should call the TD after the emergency is over.

 

[krupicka]

If there is an emergency, the TD really needs to know ASAP for a host of reasons: impact on other competitors, insurance claims, etc. if a player can walk back to their car, they can walk back to tournament central and tell the TD.

 

[d11rok]

My opinion stems from the following rule in the competition manual, under TD responsibilities.

"Failure to properly report the results of an event or to meet the financial obligations of the event may lead to further disciplinary action including the suspension of the Tournament Director's PDGA membership and privileges"

I guess I do not know how one would "properly report the results of an event" if one did not know the circumstances to the fullest extent they can glean and make an informed decision on.

I agree, if a player runs off without telling anyone it's poor form. But that's not the topic for discussion. The question is how to code that event, and if you in fact make it up as you go along based on nothing except how you feel it should be coded, you as a TD are also in violation.

I also agree there aren't many situations this would arise in. However, that is also not the question at hand.

 

[JC17393]

My opinion stems from the following rule in the competition manual, under TD responsibilities.

"Failure to properly report the results of an event or to meet the financial obligations of the event may lead to further disciplinary action including the suspension of the Tournament Director's PDGA membership and privileges"

I guess I do not know how one would "properly report the results of an event" if one did not know the circumstances to the fullest extent they can glean and make an informed decision on.

I agree, if a player runs off without telling anyone it's poor form. But that's not the topic for discussion. The question is how to code that event, and if you in fact make it up as you go along based on nothing except how you feel it should be coded, you as a TD are also in violation.

I also agree there aren't many situations this would arise in. However, that is also not the question at hand.

Page 5 of the Tour Standards document (bolded is in the document, not added by me):

A summary of other important items from previous years that continue this year:...

• Continuation of the use of a result code (888) that TDs will enter for the round score when players or TD wish to report their consensus that a player clearly attempted to have their round dropped to protect their rating by either not completing a round or by padding their score with extra throws. This code is also used should a player discontinue play in a tournament without alerting the TD that they are leaving or that they are not returning for subsequent rounds. Note: This code is NOT used for event no-shows, 888 and 999 codes are only used for players who started the event.

Lots of decisions are left to TD discretion, not just the one of whether to code a DNF as 999 or 888. It's hardly "make it up as you go along". Disagreeing with the TD's decision does not render that decision as incorrect or somehow in violation of the TD's responsibilities and thus subjects that TD to potential discipline.

It should be noted that it isn't a matter of informing the TD why one is leaving or not returning to a tournament in progress. It's simply that the TD needs to be informed of the player's withdrawal in some way. Not doing so can cause problems for the TD...e.g. grouping the absent player for the next round and potentially leaving a group short. That is what triggers the 888 in such situations.

 

[biscoe]

My preference was for all DNF's to receive 999. Sorting out player's motivation for quitting is not really something I feel I should have to do.

 

[JoakimBL]

If there is an emergency, the TD really needs to know ASAP for a host of reasons: impact on other competitors, insurance claims, etc. if a player can walk back to their car, they can walk back to tournament central and tell the TD.

You are assuming that the TD is not playing and is present at Tournament Central. If it is a true emergency, the player like isn't worried about receiving an 888. I know I wouldn't be. I would most likely inform my card mates and hopefully, they would relay that information to the TD.

 

[krupicka]

There is always myself or one of my staff at tournament central at the events I run. I never really understood how one can run a good event where that is not the case.

 

[JC17393]

There is always myself or one of my staff at tournament central at the events I run. I never really understood how one can run a good event where that is not the case.

Depends on the size of the event, no? Or the size of the staff. I play in most of the tournaments I run. It's only the biggest one that I choose not to play, mainly because of the scale of prep-work beforehand rather than the day-of stuff. Things run smoothly enough to keep everyone happy and coming back the next time.

Generally speaking, someone walking off the course mid-round isn't going to be 888 worthy unless the group reports that the player quit due to poor play rather than an injury or an emergency of some sort. If the card is turned in and there's a DNF on it, it's not difficult to ask "what happened to player X?" My experience is the person turning in the card usually volunteers the information without prompting..."player X turned his ankle and couldn't finish" or "player X got pissed and walked off after he took back to back 6s". I don't need to hear directly from the departed player if I get the story from someone else on his card.

I think the "failed to inform the TD" 888 is far more likely to come up when a player leaves after a completed round and doesn't return for the next round. That's been the case in every 888 I've assigned since the code was created. I put the player on the board anticipating they were still there and they never showed. That's the pain in the butt that is worth lining the player up for discipline, rather than a player not making a point to tell me they sprained their knee or their wrist and leaving mid-round. Especially if I'm out on the course playing the event myself.