A Quick Thought on The Power Pocket

[slowplastic]

It seems like you aren't interested in any real discussion or debate. :\

How dare you ask specifics or question.

 

[drk_evns]

Just did some field work and specifically thought about getting the "arrow on my forearm" pointing left of target.

I was worried at first it would make me use my wrist actively and look like an ultimate player with the disc all curled up but the rotation doesn't really allow you to get to that point it seems.

I hit 455' on a flex line without over exerting myself. That's not my personal best, but it did seem easier to reach. It definitely adds power.

Most dramatic change was the stability in my discs. This adds a ton of spin that I wasn't giving my discs before so my flippy mids all of the sudden weren't that flippy.

Needs more practice, but good immediate results.

 

[VLaForce2002]

Most dramatic change was the stability in my discs. This adds a ton of spin that I wasn't giving my discs before so my flippy mids all of the sudden weren't that flippy.
.

This intrigued me. I thought more spin made over stable discs stand up/flip to flat. Was the added stability a result of more hyzer due to the change in mechanics, or have I misunderstood the effects of spin? It's entirely possible as I have more love than skill for this sport

 

[drk_evns]

This intrigued me. I thought more spin made over stable discs stand up/flip to flat. Was the added stability a result of more hyzer due to the change in mechanics, or have I misunderstood the effects of spin? It's entirely possible as I have more love than skill for this sport

More spin = more gyroscopic stability = more stable flights

 

[Owensjef]

One of you speaks about the thumb print, a particular side of the thumb. The other seems to speak about the direct the thumb is pointing (like the Fonz, eeehhhh!). If you both focus on different things, one of you is the Apple, the other is a grapefruit

 

[Lumberjack504]

This intrigued me. I thought more spin made over stable discs stand up/flip to flat. Was the added stability a result of more hyzer due to the change in mechanics, or have I misunderstood the effects of spin? It's entirely possible as I have more love than skill for this sport

Spin adds stability. Velocity, with spin remaining constant, will add high speed turn/flip/standup. At least that's what I understand. (engineering student here, excited for physics class next semester :clap

 

[Discusted]

Just did some field work and specifically thought about getting the "arrow on my forearm" pointing left of target.

I was worried at first it would make me use my wrist actively and look like an ultimate player with the disc all curled up but the rotation doesn't really allow you to get to that point it seems.

I hit 455' on a flex line without over exerting myself. That's not my personal best, but it did seem easier to reach. It definitely adds power.

Most dramatic change was the stability in my discs. This adds a ton of spin that I wasn't giving my discs before so my flippy mids all of the sudden weren't that flippy.

Needs more practice, but good immediate results.

So you saw more spin on your Discs, and felt more power overall? How much would you say it added to your distance?

Also when I was field practice it, it felt like the elbow came out of the power pocket and into the ARC a lot faster than before. Did you also have this feeling?

 

[slowplastic]

This intrigued me. I thought more spin made over stable discs stand up/flip to flat. Was the added stability a result of more hyzer due to the change in mechanics, or have I misunderstood the effects of spin? It's entirely possible as I have more love than skill for this sport

First for this post, note that overstable, stable = straight, understable will be used separately.

From my throwing experience, more spin makes discs fly "stable". And this affects slower and understable molds the most. The more leverage/spin I get, slow discs fly and glide more, and resist turn more flying closer to stable flights. Understable molds will fly more "stable", as in resist a lot of turn yet still not really fade much. Say a Leo that would normally be -2/1 and glide right will instead fly -1/1.

Stable discs just hang on and fly really really trusty lines, typically even tighter than before.

Overstable discs will hold for a very long time...this is the thing, I don't find they get more overstable. If you throw a beefy Destroyer or Firebird they don't fade out of hand sooner...they hold straight/stable flights for a long time before hooking up.

Usually with more spin you're also getting more ejection speed, so all is well and you'll get both long and straighter flights. But if you kind of fluff a high speed disc you expect to be -1/2 and it flies closer to 0/2 it will fly a much more overstable path and cost distance, for example. And at a certain point if your velocity really goes up, then you'll probably notice that high speed understable discs start flipping a lot more again.

 

[Discusted]

One of you speaks about the thumb print, a particular side of the thumb. The other seems to speak about the direct the thumb is pointing (like the Fonz, eeehhhh!). If you both focus on different things, one of you is the Apple, the other is a grapefruit

Yeh exactly. If they focused on getting the terminology agreed upon I feel like they'd see their both talking about the same thing (Thumb Up = Thumb Pad Down) in my view, except they differ on the thumb direction/face/whatever at release. I'm curious about this too, so I'm open ears when it comes to this debate. Interesting stuff.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeh exactly. If they focused on getting the terminology agreed upon I feel like they'd see their both talking about the same thing (Thumb Up = Thumb Pad Down) in my view, except they differ on the thumb direction/face/whatever at release. I'm curious about this too, so I'm open ears when it comes to this debate. Interesting stuff.

It's not the same thing though. If you put your arm in front of you and give a thumbs up, then bend your elbow without rotating your shoulder differently, your hand will come up and meet your face. This should never happen during a throw, so this is not your elbow orientation during a throw...so this is not your hand orientation during a throw.

 

[slowplastic]

^Go to a table. Put your hand beside the table but just off of it. Put your thumb on the table. Rotate your forearm around while keeping your thumb on the table. See the variety of stuff that can happen?

Your thumb may be contacting the table and "up" but your arm sure isn't always doing the same thing.

 

[Discusted]

It's not the same thing though. If you put your arm in front of you and give a thumbs up, then bend your elbow without rotating your shoulder differently, your hand will come up and meet your face. This should never happen during a throw, so this is not your elbow orientation during a throw...so this is not your hand orientation during a throw.

But during a throw don't you purposefully move your shoulders and rotate your wrist to a point where that same elbow hinge action doesn't hit you in the face, but goes towards the chest and out to the release point? And when its doing that... is that when your saying the thumb pad is down?

 

[Discusted]

^Go to a table. Put your hand beside the table but just off of it. Put your thumb on the table. Rotate your forearm around while keeping your thumb on the table. See the variety of stuff that can happen?

Your thumb may be contacting the table and "up" but your arm sure isn't always doing the same thing.

I see my hand moving left of or right of my planted thumb on table. But during a throw, you lock a grip into the plate of the Disc and that moves along with your throw.

 

[slowplastic]

I see my hand moving left of or right of my planted thumb on table. But during a throw, you lock a grip into the plate of the Disc and that moves along with your throw.

Yeah, my point is that saying "thumb pad down" isn't defining a specific position because you can still have your thumb pad on an object and rotate the forearm. This position is not necessarily palm vertical.

But during a throw don't you purposefully move your shoulders and rotate your wrist to a point where that same elbow hinge action doesn't hit you in the face, but goes towards the chest and out to the release point? And when its doing that... is that when your saying the thumb pad is down?

Yes, so you are not in the palm vertical/thumb up position exactly. You have your arm supinate and pronate in backswing to forward swing to keep the disc on plane.

The thing is, I realize this can delve into more information/specific detail than is necessary for a lot of people. That's fine. But for others who try to do some things exactly and end up doing it a bit wrong because they don't know the feel, then that's a problem too.

 

[Discusted]

Yeah, my point is that saying "thumb pad down" isn't defining a specific position because you can still have your thumb pad on an object and rotate the forearm. This position is not necessarily palm vertical.



Yes, so you are not in the palm vertical/thumb up position exactly. You have your arm supinate and pronate in backswing to forward swing to keep the disc on plane.

The thing is, I realize this can delve into more information/specific detail than is necessary for a lot of people. That's fine. But for others who try to do some things exactly and end up doing it a bit wrong because they don't know the feel, then that's a problem too.

But were talking about a Disc, and correct me if I'm wrong but from reachback to pull into pocket to arc to release the disc is held flat in a specific grip that has the thumb pad down on the top of the Disc plate. So wouldn't that be Thump Pad Down?

Hrmm on the second point I'm confused. Once your arm supinates and pronates however to get that Disc to Flat (say for a flat shot), at THAT point wouldn't your hand be in palm vertical or handshake position with the thumb up or thumb pad down on Disc plate?

 

[slowplastic]

My point with the table experiment above is you can have thumb pad on an object like the table, but rotate your forearm so that your palm is not vertical. The thumb pad is definitely on the disc, but the palm is not necessarily vertical in a typical "thumbs up" position. But if you want to think about any sort of wrist extension, as well as maintaining planes...then there is rotation going on through the arm.

 

[drk_evns]

First for this post, note that overstable, stable = straight, understable will be used separately.

From my throwing experience, more spin makes discs fly "stable". And this affects slower and understable molds the most. The more leverage/spin I get, slow discs fly and glide more, and resist turn more flying closer to stable flights. Understable molds will fly more "stable", as in resist a lot of turn yet still not really fade much. Say a Leo that would normally be -2/1 and glide right will instead fly -1/1.

Stable discs just hang on and fly really really trusty lines, typically even tighter than before.

Overstable discs will hold for a very long time...this is the thing, I don't find they get more overstable. If you throw a beefy Destroyer or Firebird they don't fade out of hand sooner...they hold straight/stable flights for a long time before hooking up.

Usually with more spin you're also getting more ejection speed, so all is well and you'll get both long and straighter flights. But if you kind of fluff a high speed disc you expect to be -1/2 and it flies closer to 0/2 it will fly a much more overstable path and cost distance, for example. And at a certain point if your velocity really goes up, then you'll probably notice that high speed understable discs start flipping a lot more again.

Aka: more spin = more gyroscopic stability = more stable flights.

 

[drk_evns]

So you saw more spin on your Discs, and felt more power overall? How much would you say it added to your distance?



Also when I was field practice it, it felt like the elbow came out of the power pocket and into the ARC a lot faster than before. Did you also have this feeling?

I'd say it added maybe 25 feet to my throw with equivalent power? Just a guess. I only threw about 30-40 times so I need some more time to work on it.

The elbow doesn't really move positions relative to the body, but the forearm and disc definitely swing out faster. It's because we're now working with a bigger arc and it has to travel a greater distance in the same amount of time as before.

It's funny, it feels out of control when you first do it, but I'd say hitting my lines was easier. The stable flights also make for better predictability.

 

[Bradley Walker]

I will not argue the minutia of this point anymore because it is silly. There are literally 1000s of pics I could post in an endless stream of "look at me" posts but, like I said, this is silly.

If he were to stick his thumb up, he would be the Fonz.

AAAAyyyyyyyy...

He could certainly shake your hand right there "hey how are you doin?" shake shake. And the disc is gone. Ricki throws pretty far. THIS is the Beato "punch out" in living color.

My teaching is SIMPLE. I really have no desire to "debate" tiny micro details at some Internet PHD level of kinesiology because I give that the same seriousness I give TV preachers. And that is just how I feel about it. Love it or leave it. That is just how I explain things.

Cam Todd

 

[Bradley Walker]

Thumb up.
Fingers down.