We have a very casual social doubles league on a short course with many ace opportunities. Nearly everyone buys in to a $2 ace pot. If there is an odd number of people that show up someone ends up playing "Cali" (one mulligan per hole). The controversy is do you pay out the ace pot if the Cali hits an ace on the second tee shot? Seems like it gives the cali an unfair advantage.
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Ace Pot for the "Cali" player
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dmoore1998
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In every league I've played in, a cali ace counts.
Skamanda
Double Eagle Member
Either double buy-in for cali, or they only get half pot if it's the second shot. That's the way I've seen it handled.
ballgolfconvert
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We play if you pay twice (full entry) you get two shots on every throw and a 2nd throw ace counts. Don't pay double and only a first throw ace counts.
I no longer play organized doubles but when I did, we always paid the ace. No extra buy-in, no special clause for the 2nd throw.
I don't know that, statistically speaking, it makes much difference either way.
As a side note, if the doubles teams alternate drives, each player will get 9 "second drives", and can run the baskets if their partner is parked. The cali player only gets as many second drives as he wants to use his mulligans for. I'd think the number of free runs at an ace would be about the same.
I don't know that, statistically speaking, it makes much difference either way.
As a side note, if the doubles teams alternate drives, each player will get 9 "second drives", and can run the baskets if their partner is parked. The cali player only gets as many second drives as he wants to use his mulligans for. I'd think the number of free runs at an ace would be about the same.
dmoore1998
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I'm guessing it's less about having a 2nd drive...and more about your ability to throw a shot, adjust, then throw another shot with that new information. That's a HUGE advantage...though to your point it's not like paying double the ace pot makes much sense either since you're not always going to use your mulligan on your drive.
But it should definitely be much more advantageous to get to throw 2 drives on 9 holes than it is to simply be the 2nd partner to tee off on 9 holes.
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Always paid out the full ace pot, no double entry fee and never any complaints. Second shot Cali ace has only happened twice for us that I can recall while 2nd "teammate" shot aces happen infinitely more often after the first player has thrown an easy birdie tee shot. While one could argue advantages, the margins and percentages are so low no one in our group cares to fuss over it.
Our league plays on a short course, there is significant advantage to 2nd shot Cali since almost all holes are aceable, especially if you are like me and can load a bag with exact duplicates. There is a few people that "you" dont want to have this advantage. No chance to buy in double and it only pays on first shot, so ace run first then park shot is the strategy. Same with ctps, first shot only for money
Still counts for score and league points.. if you place Cali you get double the placement points. 3 pts for 1st becomes 6, ctps and aces same as normal.
Still counts for score and league points.. if you place Cali you get double the placement points. 3 pts for 1st becomes 6, ctps and aces same as normal.
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Though there is some merit in the ability to adjust, I'd stop short of "much more advantageous". The biggest advantage, in either case, is the freedom to run at the basket without consequences of a bad throw. Additionally, while the ability to adjust on a 2nd shot is valuable on a long putt, I'd imagine it's less so on a drive -- particularly on a familiar course, which is where I imagine this most often arises.
Depending on the course, the cali player may use his mulligans on fewer than 9 drives, and many of those may be to recover from bad drives. I'd imagine the main exception is on pitch-and-putt courses, where baskets are frequently parked, freeing the player for a free-run 2nd shot.
I zipped past the O.P.'s "...on a short course with many ace opportunities." In that case, cali restrictions may be appropriate.
So I'll leave with this: If you apply restrictions, make them clear in advance, and remind people periodically. Much easier than an after-the-fact dispute.
So I'll leave with this: If you apply restrictions, make them clear in advance, and remind people periodically. Much easier than an after-the-fact dispute.
Nonsense to all restrictions. If you're playing "Sven"* you have several disadvantages. You're throwing twice as much. You don't have a partner who may add additional shot types to the game. etc.
*All I've ever heard in SoCal is "Sven" for the odd man out. I mean, true Californians don't call California "Cali". That was rappers and mid-westerners.
We used to call it "single" or "solo". We had no imagination.
It's OK, dude. Don't feel bad. There was no reason to make it a regional thing in the first place.
I play a lot with identical disc pairs and I get a lot more cubbys than aces.. just saying....
The way we do it is right and everyone else is wrong
The way we do it is right and everyone else is wrong
BillFleming
* Ace Member *
It's a tough call. My first thought was that the 'Cali/Solo/Sven/whatever' person should put in double for the ace pot if they want a second tee shot to count. But then I thought about it some more.....depending on the rules the Cali/Solo/Sven/whatever person is playing by, they may not be taking a second tee shot on every hole. Most 'Cali' players usually only get one extra throw per hole and they have to decide when to use it. So, it wouldn't be beneficial/fair to them if they had to pay double for the ace pot, but couldn't throw two on every tee pad AND have a second shot elsewhere. And being Cali/Solo/Sven/whatever isn't a choice....it's usually how the doubles selection happens. So that person is being punished by only having one extra throw per hole, when every other team gets two tries for every throw.
I think it just comes down to what your group/league decides BEFORE play happens. In my opinion, I think it should just be the first throw counts for everyone. The Cali/Solo/Sven/whatever player may take two shots off the tee...but they are still ONE person and each person only gets one try off of each tee pad. For example: Player Dan and John are a team, player Chuck is a 'Cali/Solo/Sven/whatever'. Dan only gets one try for an ace off each tee pad, John only gets one try off each tee pad, and Chuck only gets one try off each tee pad (his first throw). If Chuck throws a second off a tee pad and gets it in the basket....it's a 1, but not eligible for the Ace Pot.
I think it just comes down to what your group/league decides BEFORE play happens. In my opinion, I think it should just be the first throw counts for everyone. The Cali/Solo/Sven/whatever player may take two shots off the tee...but they are still ONE person and each person only gets one try off of each tee pad. For example: Player Dan and John are a team, player Chuck is a 'Cali/Solo/Sven/whatever'. Dan only gets one try for an ace off each tee pad, John only gets one try off each tee pad, and Chuck only gets one try off each tee pad (his first throw). If Chuck throws a second off a tee pad and gets it in the basket....it's a 1, but not eligible for the Ace Pot.
Y'all are too harsh…. The throw counts so the ace counts.
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Interesting side note for discussion, sorry for getting off topic but it brought this to my mind. A few weeks back we had junior playing a NON SANCTIONED solo league round. Despite the Tee/Pin/OB information being listed for everyone the group he was playing with had him tee off from the "short" pad on the final hole (an additional temp hole only used for league play and the only hole on the course with two "known" tee locations). The short pad had been deemed too easy long ago and league plays from the longer (although only 20 feet longer) pad that forces a shot shape instead of a wide open shot. Anyways, Junior player throws his tee shot from the short pad and Ace's it. This is observed by several other cards, including the TD hosting the league. How would you have handled this? Interested to see if the decision that was made that day would line up with everyone else on here.
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