American Disc Golf Tour

[bogeyfreetilinfinity]

FYI - Their stated reason for not going through the PDGA is "our competitors are there."

I'm pretty sure the real reason of not going through the PDGA is because the PDGA has defined rules about payouts and added cash requirements for different tiers of events.

 

[DiscLoser1]

This is a stepping stone and how do you know what plans have been discussed for the future? I have suggested print media for several years now due to the following. Until last June, I was on an airplane at least 3-4 times per week for the past four years. Each time I got on a plane, I noticed many people immediately put on their headphones and look at their phone or ipad. After twenty minutes of sitting at the gate and then on to the runway, many of these people look through the airline magazine. Airline magazines are a great way to expose the sport to decisionmakers who travel but there is no discussion on doing this to promote the sport. Until the people that lack social skills, business skills, contacts and capitol start listening to people that can make things happen or have the guts to try, the sport will continue not to be considered by business and marketing professionals. I get the impression Adam Zucker tried to help grow the sport through media years back but I have never heard anyone mention how he could help now although he has the contacts and knowledge of the sport. Hopefully he is aware of what the ADGT is doing and not how much hate they are receiving from this thread.

There is a difference in opinion on how to grow the sport; it's debated regularly on this site and others.

The PDGA is far from perfect, and could probably stand some turnover in the leadership there.

That being said, money and hubris don't guarantee success, and the PDGA doesn't seem so broken that we need a splinter faction to keep growing the game. But hey, competition breeds success, so I guess we'll see.

 

[AndyJB]

Is filobedo another Chris Kilgus...excuse me, DOCTOR Chris Kilgus...account? Because he is using the same tactic as those running ADGT: it's OUR fault, as disc golfers, if this fails.

 

[DavidSauls]

Is filobedo another Chris Kilgus...excuse me, DOCTOR Chris Kilgus...account? Because he is using the same tactic as those running ADGT: it's OUR fault, as disc golfers, if this fails.

No, he's not.

 

[LHASU]

Is filobedo another Chris Kilgus...excuse me, DOCTOR Chris Kilgus...account? Because he is using the same tactic as those running ADGT: it's OUR fault, as disc golfers, if this fails.

Filobedo is NOT Kilgus and he is not anonymous. His name and PDGA number are included in his DGCR profile for all to see.

 

[BraveThrower43]

I'm pretty sure the real reason of not going through the PDGA is because the PDGA has defined rules about payouts and added cash requirements for different tiers of events.

During the final round radio interview the "our competition is with the pdga" was the reason given by Steve Boucher

 

[filobedo]

Filobedo is NOT Kilgus and he is not anonymous. His name and PDGA number are included in his DGCR profile for all to see.

Exactly, I am very transparent about who I am on this site unlike many others who refuse to note their name, town and PDGA #. I have no interest in Salient or the ADGT but have known Steve and Chris for years and they have always been cordial with me. I only wish there was not so much bitterness and hatred towards people that have been involved in the sport for many years and are trying to do what THEY think is a positive for the sport. If you disagree fine but the venomous remarks are getting to be over the top. We get it, many of you hate this company and the backers. I understand that not everyone has to like each other and many of you have made that clear as you hope this fails. I get the feeling that they would rather fail trying that not try at all which shows guts.

 

[JC17393]

I understand that not everyone has to like each other and many of you have made that clear as you hope this fails. I get the feeling that they would rather fail trying that not try at all which shows guts.

I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but I'm not hoping they fail. I'm just not seeing anything to suggest they're going to succeed...at least not in any way that hasn't already been accomplished by others.

Frankly, I find it ironic that they're seemingly going to a lot of effort to be anti-establishment (anti-PDGA specifically) yet want to be everyone else's fault (i.e. the "establishment") should the tour/event fail. If we're supposed to see them as gutsy for trying, then perhaps they shouldn't (already) be looking to pass the buck on who will be to blame if the venture comes up short.

 

[mark996]

I know there are some on here who come right out and say F@#$ Salient and Chris, and everything ADGT etc, but I do believe the majority of people are sitting around waiting. You really can't fault us for not going all in, when we've seen correspondence between Salient, Chris and his customers, and their reputation for not being that up and up on their products, warranties and sales etc. They're not the knights in shining armor a lot of you make them out to be. Again, I think most of us sitting around aren't necessarily WANTING them to fail, we're just not drinking the kool aid yet. With the DGPT coming around at the same time, I think most are 3x more excited to see that endeavor develop. I am getting quite tired of hearing how great ESPN3 is going to be, or about how "print" media will make disc golf the next MLB or NFL. And the whole "if this fails it's going to be everyone else's fault is extremely laughable. You can't put time and money in to something and then blame others when it fails. They're already planning their escape route it seems.

ESPN3, as has already been mentioned programs items that are sought after by those wishing to see them. It won't be on my Direct TV Guide or anything of that nature, I think most of you have been conned in to believing this is going main stream. EPSN3 is a pay for use streaming service offered by ESPN Network, unless you have a paid cable or satellite subscription that is. You have to know what you're looking for in order to view it.

Print Media-You may be different, but when I see something in a magazine that I have no interest in, I don't typically bore myself with reading the article just to get to the next page. Disc golf will face that same judgement. Not many, if any one, will get off a plane or subway after reading said article in said printed media and think "wow, I'm gonna go buy some frisbees and throw them around now."

The best way to expand disc golf is to keep doing what we're doing. Keep putting out quality media on youtube, keep submitting aces to ESPN for top 10, keep doing everything we can to represent the sport in a positive manner. You have to also remember there are a lot of people out there that think disc golf is simply a sport stoners play in the woods to get away from people so they can get high.

 

[filobedo]

I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but I'm not hoping they fail. I'm just not seeing anything to suggest they're going to succeed...at least not in any way that hasn't already been accomplished by others.

Frankly, I find it ironic that they're seemingly going to a lot of effort to be anti-establishment (anti-PDGA specifically) yet want to be everyone else's fault (i.e. the "establishment") should the tour/event fail. If we're supposed to see them as gutsy for trying, then perhaps they shouldn't (already) be looking to pass the buck on who will be to blame if the venture comes up short.

I understand this completely and I also think it is not wise to blame the entire sport if this does not work. The only correlation I could see with this not having the sanctioning body involved is they may have plans to have pros eventually own their own tour but who knows if that is the logic. Many PGA Tour players over the years have mentioned how much they would like to own the PGA Tour. They do have a seat a the table now but that took years and many are still not satisfied. I will never forget when Azinger went ballistic over players having to take drug tests with officials watching immediately after walking off the course at tournaments because they thought that players would cheat on a drug test after playing a round of golf.

 

[filobedo]

I know there are some on here who come right out and say F@#$ Salient and Chris, and everything ADGT etc, but I do believe the majority of people are sitting around waiting. You really can't fault us for not going all in, when we've seen correspondence between Salient, Chris and his customers, and their reputation for not being that up and up on their products, warranties and sales etc. They're not the knights in shining armor a lot of you make them out to be. Again, I think most of us sitting around aren't necessarily WANTING them to fail, we're just not drinking the kool aid yet. With the DGPT coming around at the same time, I think most are 3x more excited to see that endeavor develop. I am getting quite tired of hearing how great ESPN3 is going to be, or about how "print" media will make disc golf the next MLB or NFL. And the whole "if this fails it's going to be everyone else's fault is extremely laughable. You can't put time and money in to something and then blame others when it fails. They're already planning their escape route it seems.

ESPN3, as has already been mentioned programs items that are sought after by those wishing to see them. It won't be on my Direct TV Guide or anything of that nature, I think most of you have been conned in to believing this is going main stream. EPSN3 is a pay for use streaming service offered by ESPN Network, unless you have a paid cable or satellite subscription that is. You have to know what you're looking for in order to view it.

Print Media-You may be different, but when I see something in a magazine that I have no interest in, I don't typically bore myself with reading the article just to get to the next page. Disc golf will face that same judgement. Not many, if any one, will get off a plane or subway after reading said article in said printed media and think "wow, I'm gonna go buy some frisbees and throw them around now."

The best way to expand disc golf is to keep doing what we're doing. Keep putting out quality media on youtube, keep submitting aces to ESPN for top 10, keep doing everything we can to represent the sport in a positive manner. You have to also remember there are a lot of people out there that think disc golf is simply a sport stoners play in the woods to get away from people so they can get high.

I understand this completely. Personally, I would like to see a dg article discussing health benefits in an airline magazine for one month. If one executive or decision maker at a large or public company saw some benefit in a small investment and decided to contact the sanctioning body for information to promote their product, company, etc. through dg it would be a win-win possibly. Also, if an executive, HR or marketing person at a large public company just read a little about the sport and health benefits while sitting on a plane this could possibly lead them to install a course at their headquarters increasing dg visibility in the community and around the world at other company locations.

 

[mark996]

Getting local corporations to install courses would definitely be awesome. There's already one here in the dfw area, I wanna say at a Frito lay building. I didn't even think about mentioning it in a health magazine but I think you're definitely on to something there.

 

[JC17393]

I understand this completely and I also think it is not wise to blame the entire sport if this does not work. The only correlation I could see with this not having the sanctioning body involved is they may have plans to have pros eventually own their own tour but who knows if that is the logic. Many PGA Tour players over the years have mentioned how much they would like to own the PGA Tour. They do have a seat a the table now but that took years and many are still not satisfied. I will never forget when Azinger went ballistic over players having to take drug tests with officials watching immediately after walking off the course at tournaments because they thought that players would cheat on a drug test after playing a round of golf.

PGA players DO own their tour. The origin of the PGA Tour was the players organizing (unionizing) and breaking the "tour" from the PGA itself in order to gain control. The PGA Tour is headed by a board (Tour Policy Board) that names a commissioner to oversee operations. There are at least four tour players on the Tour Policy Board at any given time, and the board is advised by a Player Advisory Council consisting of 16 tour players.

The ADGT is not a player-oriented tour in the slightest. The comparison is laughable.

 

[filobedo]

PGA players DO own their tour. The origin of the PGA Tour was the players organizing (unionizing) and breaking the "tour" from the PGA itself in order to gain control. The PGA Tour is headed by a board (Tour Policy Board) that names a commissioner to oversee operations. There are at least four tour players on the Tour Policy Board at any given time, and the board is advised by a Player Advisory Council consisting of 16 tour players.

The ADGT is not a player-oriented tour in the slightest. The comparison is laughable.

I had no idea the PGA of America no longer had one (1) seat on the BOD. When did this change?

 

[JC17393]

I had no idea the PGA of America no longer had one (1) seat on the BOD. When did this change?

Where did I say that? I only said that there are four players on the BOD at any given time. The rest of the board consists of PGA of America execs and directors from outside the game. My point was that the PGA Tour is a player-run organization, more so than the ADGT can claim to be (not that they claim that, but you seemed to be implying it).

 

[Pbmercil]

I'm pretty sure the real reason of not going through the PDGA is because the PDGA has defined rules about payouts and added cash requirements for different tiers of events.

I'm 100% sure that is the real reason too. I don't necessarily have an issue with it, if they want to use entries to help pay for a broadcast that is fine, it just requires going outside of the PDGA.

They also mentioned about the PDGA not being able to communicate or make dicisions with ESPN fast enough being a reason, which is nonsense. The PDGA would have zero reason to be heavily involved in the planning of this event, Just like any one of the thousands of other events they sanction annually.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm 100% sure that is the real reason too. I don't necessarily have an issue with it, if they want to use entries to help pay for a broadcast that is fine, it just requires going outside of the PDGA.

They also mentioned about the PDGA not being able to communicate or make dicisions with ESPN fast enough being a reason, which is nonsense. The PDGA would have zero reason to be heavily involved in the planning of this event, Just like any one of the thousands of other events they sanction annually.

It seems there was a third route---to not sanction with the PDGA, but adopt the PDGA rules with their own exceptions, approved disc lists, etc. I believe there have been other, fairly big events, that have done this. Their website reeks of being anti-PDGA, to the point that they don't even mention the PDGA when talking about already-approved discs.

Perhaps they feared legal action by the PDGA.....but then, why did they copy some of the rules word-for-word?

*

I have had no issues with Salient or the individuals involved. I'm not hoping they fail. I commend the effort. But, from here in the peanut gallery, it just looks like it's being done comically badly.

 

[Chiefstang]

I think it will sell out, but with mostly local players.

His last tournament barely filled half the field. Nobody wants to be involved with Salient locally either.

Hopefully he is aware of what the ADGT is doing and not how much hate they are receiving from this thread.

He has earned every single atom of hate he is getting, and it's not just in this thread. Having "guts" and running scams aren't the same. He's a leach and he deserves to be stepped on.

 

[DanJon]

I'm sorry but you must be young, naive or both if you think the top exec of some big company is going to see a print article while on an airplane and think to themselves that they should contact and/or invest in Frisbee golf.

 

[BraveThrower43]

His last tournament barely filled half the field. Nobody wants to be involved with Salient locally either.


.

Technically Salient's last pdga tournament didn't even happen due to lack of sign ups.