American Disc Golf Tour

[DavidSauls]

Will this tour fail? Of course it will. But this EVENT might turn out really good. Don't just shrug it off.

I agree.

Critics placing their bets, should agree with on what constitutes failure. If they have an event at Cobblestone with some players and some top-level pros, and it is shown on ESPN3 to a small viewership, is that success or failure?

If they have a really good event but it never leads to a live broadcast of future events on the ESPN TV stations, as they hope, is that success or failure?

If the whole thing gets cancelled....well, you don't have to answer that.

 

[Consult20]

So Scott P., if you're still here, how is it going with the rules updates? Haven't heard from you since the weekend.

 

[DavidSauls]

Speaking of which, I notice that there is no provision for a disc stuck in a tree---other than the odd statement that there is no 2-meter rule. It appears, from reading these rules, that you must play it where it comes to rest, no matter how high above the ground.

I think this will be great for TV.

It also appears that, while a scorecard must be turned in promptly, it need not be correct.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

This thread would have found its way to the landfill, if it weren't all true...

It's an enigma wrapped in a riddle...

 

[DirtyMeathook]

Speaking of which, I notice that there is no provision for a disc stuck in a tree---other than the odd statement that there is no 2-meter rule. It appears, from reading these rules, that you must play it where it comes to rest, no matter how high above the ground.

I think this will be great for TV.

It also appears that, while a scorecard must be turned in promptly, it need not be correct.

You think people are going to be climbing and throwing from trees? No two meter rule simply means there is no penalty stroke if you are stuck in anything higher than 2 meters off the ground. Whether there is a two meter rule or not, if you are stuck in a tree you mark your lie directly below your disc, and play from there.

 

[DavidSauls]

You think people are going to be climbing and throwing from trees? No two meter rule simply means there is no penalty stroke if you are stuck in anything higher than 2 meters off the ground. Whether there is a two meter rule or not, if you are stuck in a tree you mark your lie directly below your disc, and play from there.

You missed the joke.

The rules don't say you mark your lie directly below your disc. Sure, PDGA rules do, but PDGA rules don't apply here. Just thought I'd tip them off that they might want to correct this flaw, while they're presumably re-writing their rules.

 

[Jenga54]

Um...none of the professional tours are "established" at this point. Now, do the people running the other tours have more experience? Are they using established EVENTS to bolster their tours? Yes.

Dont totally discredit the ADGT. It's not hopeless yet. They still have plenty of time to pull off something excellent. With enough money, anything can happen.

As I mentioned earlier, even failed ventures like the XFL end up having influence on their sport down the line. That could be the case here. They have also been pretty careful to distance the Salient name from the actual tour itself...that shows a degree of self awareness that Kilgus and Co have this far not shown.

Although none of the 3 Tours are established, which I realize - I have a feeling when we watch the production quality and viewer experience of these, when compared back to back, I have a strong feeling it's not cobblestone we wish were broadcast on the golden cable fibers of the ESPN(3) computers. Have you seen Jussi's production on the EO last year?

 

[Jenga54]

You think people are going to be climbing and throwing from trees? No two meter rule simply means there is no penalty stroke if you are stuck in anything higher than 2 meters off the ground. Whether there is a two meter rule or not, if you are stuck in a tree you mark your lie directly below your disc, and play from there.

wait, what's a 2 meter rule?

 

[Improbably]

Will this tour fail? Of course it will. But this EVENT might turn out really good. Dont just shrug it off.

So this teaches ADGT; by screwing someone over they will get support.

The marketing strategy finally makes sense!

 

[Pbmercil]

You missed the joke.

The rules don't say you mark your lie directly below your disc. Sure, PDGA rules do, but PDGA rules don't apply here. Just thought I'd tip them off that they might want to correct this flaw, while they're presumably re-writing their rules.

I also get a kick of how they felt the need to clarify, of all things, that they are NOT using the 2 meter rule. Cuz, it's there rule book, So if they didn't want it they didn't have to include it, ya know?

Like, THAT was the thing that definately had to be in there

 

[Pbmercil]

I agree.

Critics placing their bets, should agree with on what constitutes failure. If they have an event at Cobblestone with some players and some top-level pros, and it is shown on ESPN3 to a small viewership, is that success or failure?

If they have a really good event but it never leads to a live broadcast of future events on the ESPN TV stations, as they hope, is that success or failure?

If the whole thing gets cancelled....well, you don't have to answer that.

That's a fair point. I would agree that just getting the event out on as promised (at cobblestone and on espn3) would probably count as a win, regardless of how many people show up to play. There is just one TINY detail that throws a wench into that:

What happens if none of the players get paid out? Or just not paid out anything close to advertised? They ALSO promised 10k to the winner. What happens when Rick misses an NT stop for this, wins handily (which he will) and doesn't get the paycheck they promised (but are not obligated to follow thru on per their own rules)?

I mean, cobblestone really is a heck of a property. That cannot possibly be cheap. The broadcast infrastructure isn't cheap either. If your primary income to pay those obligations is going to be entry fees, doesn't the event HAVE to fill? Otherwise there is just nothing left to pay out, unless you already have significant cash on hand and are just prepared to write off the loss as "this stuff happens in year one, that doesn't mean it's not a viable plan". Which is giving these guys a lot of credit.

Is it still a success if Rick and others show, the event takes place as promised, and two weeks later Rick starts killing them on social media because he never got paid?

 

[bogeyfreetilinfinity]

i forgot, do we know who's doing the filming?

 

[@iDiscGolf]

Uhm, ESPN?...

 

[BraveThrower43]

i forgot, do we know who's doing the filming?

A local production company is involved

 

[teemkey]

From 11/7/15. May have changed since then ...

The promo video on Youtube was put up by a company called Aviv Moon Productions based out of Charlotte. They're a media for hire company with their own satellite truck/broadcast studio, so it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that they are the media production company that is going to be responsible for putting the tournament on the air (and paid to do it...by whom no one knows).

In this sense, it isn't unlike what Jussi did for the European Open. Only instead of getting live airtime on a national television station/network, they've secured ESPN streaming services (whether they are paying for or are being paid for the service is a mystery) with maybe a chance of getting to one of their cable outlets.

 

[DavidSauls]

That's a fair point. I would agree that just getting the event out on as promised (at cobblestone and on espn3) would probably count as a win, regardless of how many people show up to play. There is just one TINY detail that throws a wench into that:

What happens if none of the players get paid out? Or just not paid out anything close to advertised? They ALSO promised 10k to the winner. What happens when Rick misses an NT stop for this, wins handily (which he will) and doesn't get the paycheck they promised (but are not obligated to follow thru on per their own rules)?

I mean, cobblestone really is a heck of a property. That cannot possibly be cheap. The broadcast infrastructure isn't cheap either. If your primary income to pay those obligations is going to be entry fees, doesn't the event HAVE to fill? Otherwise there is just nothing left to pay out, unless you already have significant cash on hand and are just prepared to write off the loss as "this stuff happens in year one, that doesn't mean it's not a viable plan". Which is giving these guys a lot of credit.

Is it still a success if Rick and others show, the event takes place as promised, and two weeks later Rick starts killing them on social media because he never got paid?

Good point. For anyone betting on failure, this falls into the gray area. At the low end of the spectrum---low payout, players howling---the betters probably win. If the payout is substantial, but less than promised, I don't know how the gambling judge will rule.

*

Did they promise $10,000 to the winner? I'm under the impression that they're not promising huge payouts---that a bunch of the income is going into the expense of the production, and that ESPN coverage is a big part of what they're offering. But I may have missed something.

 

[Consult20]

Good point. For anyone betting on failure, this falls into the gray area. At the low end of the spectrum---low payout, players howling---the betters probably win. If the payout is substantial, but less than promised, I don't know how the gambling judge will rule.

*

Did they promise $10,000 to the winner? I'm under the impression that they're not promising huge payouts---that a bunch of the income is going into the expense of the production, and that ESPN coverage is a big part of what they're offering. But I may have missed something.

If the Jeep ace is hit, at least one person will think it was a big success. It appears the member packs, prizes, payouts, rules, etc. are moving targets. And I'm surprised there is no volunteer sign up list yet, unless I missed it. You would think it's going to take a lot of volunteers to make it happen.

 

[DavidSauls]

And I'm surprised there is no volunteer sign up list yet, unless I missed it. You would think it's going to take a lot of volunteers to make it happen.

I find that curious, too, being here in the home of the ADGT. Though they may assume they can rally volunteers closer to the event. And they may be right. The Columbia Disc Golf Club runs a big event (two weekends) in March, so that has everyone's attention right now. The call for volunteers may come afterwards.

But it might not take an army of volunteers. 3 Salient guys, able to devote efforts full-time, and it's a 1-course, 1-pool event. But if I were doing such a thing, I'd be nervous and getting commitments from as many volunteers as I could. But that's me.

 

[AndyJB]

Yeah I dont remember seeing anything guarenteeing any specific payout number. The impetus was always "disc golf on ESPN!". With that as the driving force, you would have thought they would at least have a few more local pros on board. Unless they just havent updated the list

 

[Consult20]

I find that curious, too, being here in the home of the ADGT. Though they may assume they can rally volunteers closer to the event. And they may be right. The Columbia Disc Golf Club runs a big event (two weekends) in March, so that has everyone's attention right now. The call for volunteers may come afterwards.

But it might not take an army of volunteers. 3 Salient guys, able to devote efforts full-time, and it's a 1-course, 1-pool event. But if I were doing such a thing, I'd be nervous and getting commitments from as many volunteers as I could. But that's me.

I could see needing 50-100 volunteers easy, it's over 4 days now (12th-15th) and most likely not all of them will be able to be there every day.