Any benefits of max weight (and up) understable mids/drivers? Anyone use these?

[hisdudeness47]

I just acquired a 180g Gateway Diamond Journey (12, 6, -2, 1) and a 182g Gateway Evolution Mystic (5, 5, -3, 0) for ****s and giggles. I also just discovered that these are above PDGA max weight standards (176g for the Journey, 181 for the Mystic). DOH! Anyway, I can still use them casually.

I've found these discs to have some very interesting characteristics because of the weight. They turn, but they are also more stable than the numbers indicate. Both of them fade consistently. I've thrown a lighter Mystic before and it turned and burned easy. This doesn't. I really like how max weights rip out of my hand, so this got me thinking about max weight understable discs and how they stack up vs the rest. I haven't thrown them enough to really learn them but this got me thinking... Are there any particular benefits to max weight understable discs that actually stable up? Is there a benefit to throwing a 180g understable disc vs 175 in something more neutral, for example? Can higher weight understable discs actually be used consistently in the wind?

I don't really know what my questions are exactly, but I found these discs to be quite interesting. I'm a little bummed that they are beyond max weight, but I could always get another Mystic that's a gram lighter, for example. I also doubt I'd be caught if I threw them in a tourney but meh.

TLDR, just curious if this is a property that people seek out and use to their benefit.

 

[Skervoy]

I think looking at pros everybody should have discs that act understable for their armspeed. I am getting most distance from Hades and Terns. Nose up is an issue for me so getting turn from a wraith only happens consistently in heavy headwinds.

When it comes to wind I think it is mostly a matter to know your discs and how much wind they can handle.

 

[EllEstar]

I only really bag max weight discs (+/- 2-3g) because my area is super windy and I've found that heavier discs are just more consistent in the wind. Lighter discs can definitely be amazing if you're riding the wind with them, but still more erratic than heavier ones.

I do bag and throw understable discs too, so I guess I'd say yes, max weight understable discs are useful and I'd probably take one over a lighter disc designed to be more neutral.

 

[Brychanus]

I just acquired a 180g Gateway Diamond Journey (12, 6, -2, 1) and a 182g Gateway Evolution Mystic (5, 5, -3, 0) for ****s and giggles. I also just discovered that these are above PDGA max weight standards (176g for the Journey, 181 for the Mystic). DOH! Anyway, I can still use them casually.

I've found these discs to have some very interesting characteristics because of the weight. They turn, but they are also more stable than the numbers indicate. Both of them fade consistently. I've thrown a lighter Mystic before and it turned and burned easy. This doesn't. I really like how max weights rip out of my hand, so this got me thinking about max weight understable discs and how they stack up vs the rest. I haven't thrown them enough to really learn them but this got me thinking... Are there any particular benefits to max weight understable discs that actually stable up? Is there a benefit to throwing a 180g understable disc vs 175 in something more neutral, for example? Can higher weight understable discs actually be used consistently in the wind?

I don't really know what my questions are exactly, but I found these discs to be quite interesting. I'm a little bummed that they are beyond max weight, but I could always get another Mystic that's a gram lighter, for example. I also doubt I'd be caught if I threw them in a tourney but meh.

TLDR, just curious if this is a property that people seek out and use to their benefit.

Force=Mass*Acceleration, and Acceleration = Force/Mass.

Adding a little weight will reduce how quick the disc is upon release when the same force is applied. Heavier discs will also be a bit less sensitive to air perturbations, gusts, etc.

I will usually throw max weight mids for any mold, and there are trade-offs. E.g., I can get slightly more speed on a low 170s Comet, but they will turn quicker and be more sensitive to perturbations. So I typically get more distance with a slower drift with max weight Comets, and they can shrug off a bit of wind better. They still reward excellent control. This has made them my default all-around fieldwork, touch, and workhorse mid (in the woods especially, I throw a max weight Buzzz more often if I'm in the open).

On the other hand, I've found my Buzzzes to be pretty similar to one another down 10g from max weight, so I have a few in max and ~170 weight and just find the lighter ones are a little easier to mash a hyzerflip but still don't really risk a turn and burn when my swing is off. So I'll often carry a beat or light Buzzz that flips a bit more but stables up if needed, and I use the max weight Comet for almost any midrange shot otherwise.

Kind of the same as the disc speed goes up (Sidewinder, Valkyrie, Etc). I like finding heavy Sidewinders that standup and coast forward a long ways but turn less for hyzerflip tunnel shots.

For fast drivers, I've tended to try to find sweet spot molds ~167-170g that flip and take a nice S line with a predictable finish, but I usually bag a max weight Shryke that will flip but stay a bit more predictable and straight than my max distance drivers (I love high 160s Shrykes for "spray and pray" shots and distance rollers, Pharaohs for my stock controlled distance shots, and Wraiths/worn destroyers for more fade).

 

[Al Dente]

I agree with Brychanus. I could have written that myself except the discs mentioned would have been mostly Swedish.

I have come to prefer understable discs in heavier weights from the tee. They may be slower, but they also carry better at the end of their flight and are more reliable in light winds. I do choose discs with more stability when the winds rise.

I still carry lightweight understable drivers for standstill fairway shots (I throw almost all my fairway and upshots from a standstill), and uphill and tailwind drives.

 

[drk_evns]

You can still use those discs. It's fine that it's a gram over. No would ever would call you on that, even if they could.

I always use max weight. I like throwing lighter discs but they become a lot less reliable I the wind.

 

[hisdudeness47]

You can still use those discs. It's fine that it's a gram over. No would ever would call you on that, even if they could.

I always use max weight. I like throwing lighter discs but they become a lot less reliable I the wind.

The Journey is 4 grams over!

Thanks for the replies guys. Been really loving the max weight understable game lately. My Mystic and Super Stingrays are doing things I've never thought of doing before. My new favorite thing in heavy right to left crosswinds is throwing a low Mystic laser. Goes dead straight. In my first tournament last weekend (yes I used it in the tourney) in extreme wind (Reno) I pulled this trick out on one of our local top of the world shots. I landed C1, much to the amazement of my card mates. Dead straight, floated down, parked. It moved like there was no wind. Won my division btw (Intermediate). 1/1 in tournaments and I owe a ton of it to these forums. To many many more!

Been using the PDGA Relay a bunch in practice recently (167 I believe). Loving it, especially as I'm in the process of forehand work. It's great BH and FH. Now I have a max weight cosmic neutron Relay coming in the mail and I am excited. Stoked about this new max weight understable game!

 

[drk_evns]

The Journey is 4 grams over!

Yeah no one cares lol

Congrats on your win!

 

[HyooMac]

In my experience, almost every disc arrives a gram or two heavier than posted/penned. I heard from a retailer a few years ago that the newly molded plastic will gain weight because of how it interacts with the air (not forever, just initially - so maybe it's in the time between being penned, and then shelved, shipped, etc.). That means a lot of people are throwing discs that are heavier than penned - so it just follows that many people are throwing overweight discs.

I agree with others' observations about lightweight discs being fluky in the wind - and I'm gradually working away from bagging them.


Certainly there's difference at the extremes (say, 15 - 20g difference). But overall, I think the disc's ratings and the condition of the plastic (how beat in) has a lot more impact than weight.

So if you're purposely buying heavier discs with the same ratings you're used to, be prepared to work them in over time - especially if you're buying them in more stable plastics (like Champion).

On the other hand, if you're buying less stable discs to compensate for the heavier weight, you might find they're completely different than you expect out of the box...and you're gonna be buying and trying a lot of discs.

In the end, nothing beats a lot of field work and some on-course throws when learning new discs. You just have to be careful about changing too many variables (ratings, plastic, weight, wear) at once.

Sorry if this was a ramble.

 

[Sheep]

Disc weights are all over the map now days.

However, the rule isn't enforced. So..
Throw them. Other players out there are throwing them.

Pro players out there are throwing illegal discs too.

I'm not saying "go cheat" but I'm also saying, a rule isn't really a rule if its not enforced.

So, it's not really a rule, because its not ever enforced. Even when pro's have blatantly damaged discs that violate the rules, nobody cares.