Anyone having trouble promoting PDGA events?

[#19325]

Perhaps the reason they don't want to join the PDGA is because the PDGA is a dismal failure. QUOTE]

Failure? Memberships and number of tournaments continue to rise each year. I can go throughout the midwest and ask recreational players about the SN and they'd have no clue what I'm talking about. If I mention PDGA they know exactly what I'm talking about. I can use the PDGA as a resource and get instant credibility with parks.

Your comments are the standard PDGA Haters comments. From what you can tell. Have you worked with the executive director? Have you ever gone to any of the PDGA meetings? Have you helped behind the scenes to see what they do?

All financial information is public for the PDGA. I make as much if not more as a teacher/coach. They aren't getting rich!
http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/11-12_PDGA_Financial_Summary_Public.pdf

 

[rupet]

^Were are some stats that number of renewals are increasing? I would guess renewal memberships are not, but I could be wrong.

I will not renew until they lower membership fees.

 

[DavidSauls]

The location of the IDGC and HOF is kind of curious. I would guess that location was chosen because the initial cost for that in that area might have been the best option they had....when looking at initial cost only. Just a guess.

Wouldn't a sport want it's HQ and HOF to be in a more congested area so it's more visible?
Why was that particular location chosen?
More traffic means more $$, I was at IDGC for 3 days and only ran into 3 other players on the courses the whole time.

As I understand it, the PDGA headquarters moved from someone's spare bedroom in Toronto to the IDGC because the county government gave the PDGA a terrific deal to move it there. I've seen the details but don't recall them, but it was a major step forward. Whether another location would have been even better is dependent, in part, on whether any government in a more populous area would have offered a similar deal. For what it's worth, for those who want to make the connection, Augusta is also famous as a (ball) golf location.

 

[DavidSauls]

^Were are some stats that number of renewals are increasing? I would guess renewal memberships are not, but I could be wrong.

I will not renew until they lower membership fees.

Between 2000 and 2011, number of active memberships tripled. As did tournaments and tournament participation.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The roughly $1 million IDGC facility was essentially built free to our specs for the PDGA by the citizens of Columbia County, Georgia whose sales tax increment covered this project and a few others they vote on to tax themselves an extra 1% every five years. The course fees and sales from the onsite Pro Shop at one time almost covered and may now fully pay for the Superintendent and maintenance of the courses. Jason regularly hosts a variety of educational events for groups coming from all over.

Design and development labor for the courses contributed free by Houck, Monroe, Gillis, Kenner, myself and a few others plus PDGA staff have gotten them done. Contributions from manufacturers for the baskets and disc golfers from all over including major contributions from the foundations of the course namesakes, Jim Warner, Steady Ed and W.R. Jackson. The monthly rent paid by the PDGA for use of the building (which it does not own) I've heard is about 1/3 of the normal cost for roughly equivalent square footage and use of the 90 acres for the courses is essentially free with room for 2 more courses eventually provided free.

Columbia County is like a giant sponsor for our sport whose contribution can be used by any player, unlike sponsorship money just for top pros. it's your own fault if you don't regularly trek to the IDGC center as one of the top destinations in our sport. I don't think you'll be disappointed and impressed with what the outside world in partnership with key volunteers and the PDGA staff has done to provide a great place to play and enjoy whether for recreation or tournaments.

 

[Jay Dub]

Thanks, David and Chuck. I was just curious.

I agree it's worth the trip there.

 

[#19325]

^Were are some stats that number of renewals are increasing? I would guess renewal memberships are not, but I could be wrong.

I will not renew until they lower membership fees.

I doubt renewal rates are increasing either but that's life. Players come and go for various reasons.
http://www.pdga.com/demographics?

As far as memberships the fee is very competitive with others activites. I'm tired of hearing the PDGA charges too much. It's less than $5 per month for amateur players.

PBA - Anyone between the ages of 18 and 24 may join the PBA for $49 per year (no initiation fee).

USGA https://members.usga.org/join/index.asp?trans_type=Join

USTA starts at $44 http://membership.usta.com/section/...hips/101.uts?gclid=CI7zm8ivgLECFUS4KgodKQLo2A


It's 8 to 10 packs of cigs. I just saw a guy dump $63 into a carton last night.
It's 10 to 15 beers at the bar.
It's 4-5 discs per year.

 

[#19325]

Thank you for the information Chuck. That's half the problem with most of the PDGA haters. They just don't know the facts. There are so many rumors and I think they just hate to hate.

Saying that I don't agree with everything the PDGA does. I so support them and vote for those who I think can keep the organization going in the right direction.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

Perhaps the reason they don't want to join the PDGA is because the PDGA is a dismal failure. It is ran in dictator like fashion and the "executive director," as far as I can tell, does nothing other than show up at larger tournaments and take pictures. A monument to an ego was created in the form of the IDGC which no one plays and is in the middle of no where. What percentage of the insanely high membership fee for the PDGA goes to pay the salary of the guy that is the "superintendent" of courses that no one ever plays? Why do you think there are so many C tiers? Nobody wants to send money to the PDGA because that is money that just disappears into the coffers of corruption. If one resided in Southern Nationals territory for what possible reason would you join the PDGA?

Redneck,
You're back. :clap:

 

[Redneck Machismo]

Sounds to me like someone owes the tax payers of Columbia county a refund, an apology and impeachment. Even if we are going to use a level of propoganda to explain this that would make Joseph Goebbels ashamed you can still never account for the wasted effort that could have been used for something worthwhile. It is not in Augusta; actually it isn't even that close. That, and the fact that the courses are horrible, is the reason that nobody plays there and that the whole place is a complete and utter waste.

 

[DavidSauls]

Meanwhile, for NPCTour, a brief look seems to indicate that there are as many PDGA events as SN events in Arkansas, if not more. Owing in part, no doubt, to your efforts.

Are you just getting grumbling over your events being sanctioned, or is attendance suffering compared to non-sanctioned events?

 

[scarpfish]

they have ratings with So national too. I actually like the way they track finishing 1,2nd 3rd better than PDGA's system.

Those are tour points, not ratings. Apples and oranges.

 

[NPCTour]

Meanwhile, for NPCTour, a brief look seems to indicate that there are as many PDGA events as SN events in Arkansas, if not more. Owing in part, no doubt, to your efforts.

Are you just getting grumbling over your events being sanctioned, or is attendance suffering compared to non-sanctioned events?

Since the change to PDGA events, it has created a stir for sure. All of the old school disc golfers who used to run the local club *which I no longer run anymore once I started the NPCTour* just complain and try their best to bring in the younger crowd with them as well. A very heavy following of SN players and creators are located here in little rock. Our local club president is a young disc golfer who has been playing 10yrs with these older SN loyal players and now is hosting his first event in September. The park is moving to all events are to have insurance. I simply stated how great the PDGA is by sanctioning with them you automatically receive insurance. C-tiers are $50 plus $2 per player...........the reply I got: "Well looks like I will never host an event at that park again" LOL
I have no problem with loyalty, but hard headed is something else. I am going through growing pains and it will be tough at first to make these events yearly. By playing the Minnesota Majestic, I was able to shed some light for these younger new players who keep track online at how I was doing. They seemed intrigued at the event and pictures I was sending.
On a side note from a previous reply I saw on this thread.........I did meet many players from Minnesota who have never heard of Southern Nationals. It was even harder to explain what SN was. Just an amateur points series with a championship at the end.
Again, without multiple PDGA events to play, there isn't much incentive for players to pick up a PDGA membership. Especially for renewals. Pro's are paying $75 per year to renew a membership and if there are no PDGA events around to play, then what is the point. I am a firm believer of incentives. SN sells bag tags to raise money for their Pro Championships, but has yet to figure a way to have incentives for their Amateur players to buy them. All money from tags goes to the Pro Championships.

 

[elnino]

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/11-12_PDGA_Financial_Summary_Public.pdf

interesting data there.

7 employees and board seem to eat up the entire money raised by membership fees.

i'm not sure i wouldn't mind making over 50 thousand a year playing disc golf. top player only makes 40 thousand.

the 10 dollar fee is stupid, love the sport would play but can't see paying 40 bucks for tourney fees


sounds like the southern national is sweet. no fees?

 

[DavidSauls]

You have my sympathy with the heels-dug-in, "we've always done it this way", SN locals. That's a common sentiment in many endeavors. Just try to change a tournament format or a course layout.

As disc golf grows perhaps there'll be enough up-and-comers who play your PDGA events that, eventually, it'll be desirable to almost everyone. "Almost", since you'll never get everyone on board. But once you have a critical mass of players attending sanctioned events, you don't have to worry about those who choose not to.

Frankly, it doesn't look like the SN people are doing that great a job in Arkansas. Am I missing something? There don't seem to be a lot of tournaments. I'm in South Carolina, a similar state in size and culture, and our (PDGA) calendar is crowded.

 

[DavidSauls]

As to the promotion, I guess

To the local PDGA members, it's obvious.

To out-of-town PDGA members from non-SN areas, a bigger reason to come to your tournament.

To non-members who might be interested in any or all of the benefits of PDGA membership, a chance to try it out and perhaps justify joining. (Does anyone there ever want to travel to Worlds or an A-tier?).

To those with no interest in the PDGA, not much you can do. It's a slightly more expensive tournament to enter, or a tournament with slightly lower payouts (if you absorb some or all of the cost). But if you've got a great course, and/or a great event, and/or big sponsorship, that should be enough enticement.

(P.S. - The insurance is likely to be a bigger and bigger issue, as more governments require it and private property owners should. "Not having an event there" may not always be an option, and the PDGA's deal is pretty sweet).

 

[harr0140]

Sounds to me like someone owes the tax payers of Columbia county a refund, an apology and impeachment. Even if we are going to use a level of propoganda to explain this that would make Joseph Goebbels ashamed you can still never account for the wasted effort that could have been used for something worthwhile. It is not in Augusta; actually it isn't even that close. That, and the fact that the courses are horrible, is the reason that nobody plays there and that the whole place is a complete and utter waste.

I would like to see your reviews of the courses IF you have been there. I want to hear justifcation why these courses are "horrible".

 

[DavidSauls]

I would like to see your reviews of the courses IF you have been there. I want to hear justifcation why these courses are "horrible".

No, you don't, not really.

 

[harr0140]

No, you don't, not really.

He did review Steady Ed, but has not reviewed the other two, now I need to see what courses we share in commont hat he has ranked higher than Steady Ed at 1 disc.

Tom Triplett 2 discs . . . . I gave that one 4 discs
Steady Ed 1 disc . . . . I gave it 4.5 discs
Elon Angry beaver ZERO . . . . I gave it 3.5 Let us see how this course is received after the 2012 Worlds
Kilborne 3 discs but says its too easy . . . . I gave it 4
Rennaisance 2 discs . . . . I gave it 5
Rosewood Dekalb 3 discs says it is not too bad . . . . I gave it 4
Lake Olmstead 4.5 discs . . . . I gave it 3
JP Moseley 4 discs . . . . HEY WE AGREE I ALSO GAVE IT 4 DISCS

He hasn't reviewed a bunch of courses he has played and I am wondering he only reviews when he feels a course is way out of line, whether he truly feels these course are as low as he rates them or if he is just trying to skew the overall averages.

He has his right to an opinion no doubt, I just think he looks at courses very differently than many many others, but I cannot figure out what it is that he values for his ratings. A course that isn't really "easy" Kilborne he says is too easy, but then he knocks down some other tough ones for being ridiculously too hard. He even gives Flyboy a 5 and saying it is exactly what disc golf should be like and how designer should pay attention. I wish I could have gone to Flyboy but alas maybe some other time. He would probably call the masses who he disagrees with sheeple for groupthink. Either he is right we all just follow each other, or he . . . . . . Well just look at his thumbs up or down . . . 91 people think his reviews were helpful and 404 do not.

 

[harr0140]

Sorry, I went way off topic there. I always wondered why there weren't more PDGA events when I head south for a month every winter. I would love to play in a tourney while on vacation.