[Innova] Archon super flippy? Are these flukes?

[zmannz1984]

I have been throwing a 175 champion tern for a straight max d driver and a 170 champ mamba for max d turnovers and BH rollers lately. My buddy just got two lightly used archons from PIAS, one 160's star and one 171 champ. Based on the numbers and the feel of the disc, I thought they might be about identical to a tern in flight.

We were throwing practice drives together, and I was surprised to find these archons act more like a mamba than a tern. No stability whatsoever. I can rip the champ one on a hyzer and it will end up right unless I really power down. We can both throw my mamba more predictably on a hyzer flip, and my mamba is beat to **** compared to these discs. I understand that the star one is light and also less stable due to the plastic, but based on the flat top and high PLH this champ looks like it should be a beef cake. It still has flashing even.

Just to get a frame of reference, both of us tried throwing a 175 champ tern with as flat a release as possible. Both of us could make the tern flex right just a bit, but still have a fade and skip back pretty hard laft as they landed. I was able to hit about 350 and my buddy was throwing 280-300. On the same release we could both make the champ archon into a roller. I want to love this disc since it feels better in my hands than a tern, but I can't justify buying another one if this is how they all might be. Anyone have a better experience?

 

[natedg1976]

I have a buddy that swears by Archons. He has amazing form and the Archon flies exactly to the numbers for him on 425' drives. They are longer Valkyries for him.

 

[eric40817]

I had an archon once. felt great in the hand but was not flippy. It was basically a valkyrie, just faster - meaning when get it up to its required speed, it flew like a longer valkyrie. it was pretty inconsistent though, I used it for FH S lines. I no way did mine ever feel flippy like that. and for whats its worth mine was a low 170s i think. Star plastic.

For similarities moving up in speeds - Valk, Beast, Archon. These all fly the same for me (beast just a hair more stable. Maybe a -1.75 for turn instead of -2). I stick with the valk because the others arent longer enough for me personally to make the jump. Im more consistent with speed 9s right now.

 

[Stardoggy]

I've got an E* Archon, and it's pretty flippy....I'd say definitely closer to Mamba than Valk.

 

[blackcatsmith]

I don't know why more manufacturers don't name their discs after political office holders.

 

[Horsman]

Every Archon that I have thrown has been really flippy.

 

[eric40817]

I don't know why more manufacturers don't name their discs after political office holders.

are you implying that they are inconsistent and may need some flashing removed via scrapping on the blacktop? Or do you just want a Westside Barrack? lol

 

[Squirrilah Fish]

I love my Archons. They do get pretty flippy, Star that is, it beats into a great hyzer flip disc, but they also go further that way. I have a champion, that is very domey, and flies like a Tern, but is a little more forgiving, I've noticed with the Tern it has a very narrow release window or it's a terrible flight. I love the Tern, a lot of people hate it, because they don't realize you have to throw it low.
I also have a Glow Champ Archon which is the most stable, it doesn't turn so much, as just flies really straight with a pretty good LS fade. The Archon is a control/finess driver for me. Yes, it does need a deal of power, but I can't throw it like I do a Tern. The Tern you throw it low and hard and it does it's thing, the Archon you throw with a purpose, and clean form and it flies beautifully.
Hope this helps.
If you want a more stable disc for this slot, I recommend the Lucid Renegade from Dynamic. I really like that disc too, it's my Archon for windier days.

 

[Squirrilah Fish]

I also want to bring up the Krait, it's just one less turn than the Archon, I have a 155 blizzard, and it's the straightest driver, above a 10 speed, that I throw, it's my bail out disc. And you can still flick it pretty good too.

 

[eric40817]

I also want to bring up the Krait, it's just one less turn than the Archon, I have a 155 blizzard, and it's the straightest driver, above a 10 speed, that I throw, it's my bail out disc. And you can still flick it pretty good too.

I have a 139 Blizzard Krait that flips straight to the ground thrown flat. I have to throw a hyzer flip release wayyy down low for it to flip up flat.

 

[zmannz1984]

I was looking at the krait flight ratings a few minutes ago. I think I will try one out when I have the chance. I also got to see a few archons that another friend of mine has, and I think the champ my buddy bought is indeed a fluke. His disc has the flattest, weirdest look to the top and the two I saw today have much softer edges and a little dome. I borrowed one to try out this weekend (173 marked champ with about 10 rounds of wear), so hopefully I see something closer to the tern flight. I am liking the sound of longer valk. I guess that describes my tern, but the shallow rim on it doesn't inspire nearly the confidence that the feel of a valk in hand does. I just can't get the valk as consistently far out as the tern no matter how hard I try. I will misthrow my tern 1/10 times due to slipping and early release though.

 

[Squirrilah Fish]

I have a 139 Blizzard Krait that flips straight to the ground thrown flat. I have to throw a hyzer flip release wayyy down low for it to flip up flat.

That's weird, mine has a hard time staying down.

 

[eric40817]

That's weird, mine has a hard time staying down.

I think mine is just a terd. But I used it with confidence knowing how it flew. It was great for low straight lines. I could hyzer flip it over 300' with minimal fade.

 

[baronbrapp]

I'm a little puzzled. I have thrown Beasts and Wraiths. I flipped the Beasts too often and my star Wraith was a touch too stable, so I bought an Archon in Champion, 172g. It is quite overstable for me. More stable than my Wraiths. More stable than a mid-life Star Destroyer. Maybe it's poor for, or maybe the mold was inconsistent for my disc.

 

[eric40817]

I'm a little puzzled. I have thrown Beasts and Wraiths. I flipped the Beasts too often and my star Wraith was a touch too stable, so I bought an Archon in Champion, 172g. It is quite overstable for me. More stable than my Wraiths. More stable than a mid-life Star Destroyer. Maybe it's poor for, or maybe the mold was inconsistent for my disc.

Sounds like an SL would be what you're looking for. Or and Orc. Or CD

 

[Monkeypaws]

How does Archon compare to Wraith?

 

[Squirrilah Fish]

Ok, I love my Archons. I swear by them. I have 4. 2 champ. 2 Star.
Now the star is a little flippy, but still fades right pretty well. UNLESS there is wind. I have noticed my Archons can flip pretty hard in the wind. But usually they fly just like the numbers suggest. I use my champions really well forehand, doing the anhyzer flip.
For a little while, I went to the Renegade, but overall my Archons preform better/the same. It's actually a toss up. In terms of distance they fly. It's been a big back and forth to be honest. But I'm back on my Archons now, and loving it. Unless there is a headwind, or L to R wind they don't turn over more than I want/expect them too.
Comparing it to my Champion Tern. I was surprised how different a discs they actually were. The flight is generally the same. But the feel, and precision if the Archon is way different.
So I would say maybe you got a funky one, or maybe the wind was up, and you just didn't realize it.
I love my Archons, I take them over the Tern any day.

 

[Monkeypaws]

I never really examined the numbers, and assumed this was too fast for me, but looking into the details, it seemed like a disc an intermediate could have some joy with.

 

[Squirrilah Fish]

If you read the description for the Archon, that's exactly what it says. It's a great transition disc for intermediate players who are looking to get more distance control.

 

[zmannz1984]

I am going to try them again at some point. I have gotten happy with my orcs again for this spot, I keep trying to go to faster discs but when it comes down to it I just don't need them unless I play one of the few courses around with big, open par 4/5's. And then I have the tern.