[Innova] Aviar p&a

[discerdoo]

They feel nothing like an Aviar or Roach. I actually hate the Roach.

They actually feel very much like a Roach.....and kinda like an Aviar. I have a few unthrown 2020 TS Luna's, saving them for a retirement investment cuz I like Roaches just fine for putting and throwing.

I can post profile pics of each and see who can tell the difference.

 

[Three Putt]

Yeah, I can roll with it when someone goes "I can feel the difference between a Luna and a Roach"; OK, I'll give you that. If you say a Luna feels nothing like a Roach (or by extension an Aviar) there is some cognitive dissonance going on there to justify your really expensive putter habit.

To be clear, everybody gets to spend their money so if Lunas are what you want to throw by all means do it. The '22 TS ones are really pretty, so why not. Right? It's just...it's just not a unique golf disc. It's an Aviar variant.

So go back to what I was saying about getting into the game...if I was some super-skilled 1000 rated guy, I could probably describe some minuscule flight differences I consistently saw between Lunas and Roaches and Aviars. I'm not a super-skilled 1000 rated guy, I'm lucky if I can get the same disc to flight the same way twice. :\ Which is how beginners are. So since they (and I) are going to throw their putter all over the place anyway, why get hung up on subtle differences? Aviar PandA's are inexpensive and you can get them everywhere. Just throw those. If later on you decide disc golf has stuck and you are going to play a lot, geek out on putters and try a Luna then if you want. If you decide you are a Luna guy at that point, knock yourself out. It's all good.

We just end up making a big deal out of a little bit sometimes. I actually throw Classic Aviars when I throw Aviars; they are advertised to have less fade than a PandA. OK. At my skill level? Yeah, it's the same disc. I throw Classic Aviars because I like the stamp. :| I COULD blow smoke about how they are straighter and it's a big difference yada yada yada...I like stiffer plastic and I like the old-school stamp. I can swap them for PandA's and throw exactly the same, though. Any actual debatable difference in how they feel and fly is in my head.

 

[Streets]

Yeah, I can roll with it when someone goes "I can feel the difference between a Luna and a Roach"; OK, I'll give you that. If you say a Luna feels nothing like a Roach (or by extension an Aviar) there is some cognitive dissonance going on there to justify your really expensive putter habit.

To be clear, everybody gets to spend their money so if Lunas are what you want to throw by all means do it. The '22 TS ones are really pretty, so why not. Right? It's just...it's just not a unique golf disc. It's an Aviar variant.

So go back to what I was saying about getting into the game...if I was some super-skilled 1000 rated guy, I could probably describe some minuscule flight differences I consistently saw between Lunas and Roaches and Aviars. I'm not a super-skilled 1000 rated guy, I'm lucky if I can get the same disc to flight the same way twice. :\ Which is how beginners are. So since they (and I) are going to throw their putter all over the place anyway, why get hung up on subtle differences? Aviar PandA's are inexpensive and you can get them everywhere. Just throw those. If later on you decide disc golf has stuck and you are going to play a lot, geek out on putters and try a Luna then if you want. If you decide you are a Luna guy at that point, knock yourself out. It's all good.

We just end up making a big deal out of a little bit sometimes. I actually throw Classic Aviars when I throw Aviars; they are advertised to have less fade than a PandA. OK. At my skill level? Yeah, it's the same disc. I throw Classic Aviars because I like the stamp. :| I COULD blow smoke about how they are straighter and it's a big difference yada yada yada...I like stiffer plastic and I like the old-school stamp. I can swap them for PandA's and throw exactly the same, though. Any actual debatable difference in how they feel and fly is in my head.

I get this, it's just fun giving oldmanbirdiesmoothmachinediscerplayer a hard time for throwing a needlessly expensive disc.

EDIT: The PandA and Classic Aviar are the same disc, I don't care what Dave Dunipace says!

 

[smoothplayer]

Yeah, I can roll with it when someone goes "I can feel the difference between a Luna and a Roach"; OK, I'll give you that. If you say a Luna feels nothing like a Roach (or by extension an Aviar) there is some cognitive dissonance going on there to justify your really expensive putter habit.

To be clear, everybody gets to spend their money so if Lunas are what you want to throw by all means do it. The '22 TS ones are really pretty, so why not. Right? It's just...it's just not a unique golf disc. It's an Aviar variant.

So go back to what I was saying about getting into the game...if I was some super-skilled 1000 rated guy, I could probably describe some minuscule flight differences I consistently saw between Lunas and Roaches and Aviars. I'm not a super-skilled 1000 rated guy, I'm lucky if I can get the same disc to flight the same way twice. :\ Which is how beginners are. So since they (and I) are going to throw their putter all over the place anyway, why get hung up on subtle differences? Aviar PandA's are inexpensive and you can get them everywhere. Just throw those. If later on you decide disc golf has stuck and you are going to play a lot, geek out on putters and try a Luna then if you want. If you decide you are a Luna guy at that point, knock yourself out. It's all good.

We just end up making a big deal out of a little bit sometimes. I actually throw Classic Aviars when I throw Aviars; they are advertised to have less fade than a PandA. OK. At my skill level? Yeah, it's the same disc. I throw Classic Aviars because I like the stamp. :| I COULD blow smoke about how they are straighter and it's a big difference yada yada yada...I like stiffer plastic and I like the old-school stamp. I can swap them for PandA's and throw exactly the same, though. Any actual debatable difference in how they feel and fly is in my head.

It's the depth and narrowness of the rim. Not the shape that bothers me. I like shallower or wider rim putters.

Luna = 1.1 rim width Aviar = 0.9

Luna = 1.4 rim depth Aviar = 1.5

Even the Luna is more blunt so the shape is different.

Luna = 68 Rim Conf. Aviar 55

They couldn't be further apart really and both be considered putters.

 

[smoothplayer]

They actually feel very much like a Roach.....and kinda like an Aviar. I have a few unthrown 2020 TS Luna's, saving them for a retirement investment cuz I like Roaches just fine for putting and throwing.

I can post profile pics of each and see who can tell the difference.

You're right the Roach is closer to a Luna then an Aviar is. The only Roach I have is an old beat Pro D which I didn't like so now it's my dogs frisbee.

 

[wims]

I get this, it's just fun giving oldmanbirdiesmoothmachinediscerplayer a hard time for throwing a needlessly expensive disc.

EDIT: The PandA and Classic Aviar are the same disc, I don't care what Dave Dunipace says!

The Classic Aviar flies straighter with less fade than the Aviar PnA IME

 

[Three Putt]

It's the depth and narrowness of the rim. Not the shape that bothers me. I like shallower or wider rim putters.

Luna = 1.1 rim width Aviar = 0.9

Luna = 1.4 rim depth Aviar = 1.5

Even the Luna is more blunt so the shape is different.

Luna = 68 Rim Conf. Aviar 55

They couldn't be further apart really and both be considered putters.

That's funny. I mean they could be A LOT further apart and both be considered putters than two mm here and one mm there.

Also the beadless wing they use now I'd bet money would measure 1.0 rim width. The 0.9 approval measurement is from the 80's; when you look at current approvals for discs Innova makes with a beadless putter wing like the Alpaca, the width is 1.0. I'm betting the current Aviar is a lot closer to the Luna specs than the old 80's measurements.

But whatever; if you overlook everything they have in common and dig through details to find something different about them, knock yourself out.

 

[Three Putt]

The Classic Aviar flies straighter with less fade than the Aviar PnA IME

Depends on the run kinda sorta. I did have one really nice "straight out of the box" Classic so it's possible. I also had a Classic I named Bernie because it was always waaayyy over to the left. :\

 

[smoothplayer]

That's funny. I mean they could be A LOT further apart and both be considered putters than two mm here and one mm there.

Also the beadless wing they use now I'd bet money would measure 1.0 rim width. The 0.9 approval measurement is from the 80's; when you look at current approvals for discs Innova makes with a beadless putter wing like the Alpaca, the width is 1.0. I'm betting the current Aviar is a lot closer to the Luna specs than the old 80's measurements.

But whatever; if you overlook everything they have in common and dig through details to find something different about them, knock yourself out.

They do feel and fly different though. I might be on the OCD side when it comes to feel, but to me they are not very close. Not hating on the Aviar I didn't like the McPro ones either. It's just not for me.

It'd be like saying a Roc3 is the same as a Buzzz. Sure they are both midranges but they also feel and fly different. I don't like the Buzzz though. The rim always felt too plussy. Is plussy a word?

 

[Streets]

The Classic Aviar flies straighter with less fade than the Aviar PnA IME

It's the same disc

 

[Streets]

They do feel and fly different though. I might be on the OCD side when it comes to feel, but to me they are not very close. Not hating on the Aviar I didn't like the McPro ones either. It's just not for me.

It'd be like saying a Roc3 is the same as a Buzzz. Sure they are both midranges but they also feel and fly different. I don't like the Buzzz though. The rim always felt too plussy. Is plussy a word?

The Roc3 is a little further removed from the Buzzz than the Luna is to an Aviar shape. If you said Mako3 to Buzzz...you'd be a little more on track with your comparison.

 

[smoothplayer]

The Roc3 is a little further removed from the Buzzz than the Luna is to an Aviar shape. If you said Mako3 to Buzzz...you'd be a little more on track with your comparison.

Mako3 maybe feel wise. Mako3 is so straight though, Buzzz even though I don't throw them, I have thrown them before seems quite a bit faster and more fade (on avg).

 

[the1discChallenge]

Anyone throw the Aviar P&A/ Wizard combo? Was looking at BB Aviar/KC Pro Aviars but realized I already own an overstable beaded putter already....figured two classics would work alright together, right?

 

[Three Putt]

Anyone throw the Aviar P&A/ Wizard combo? Was looking at BB Aviar/KC Pro Aviars but realized I already own an overstable beaded putter already....figured two classics would work alright together, right?

That's dogs-and-cats-living-together crazy talk. :|

I suppose it would be fine, though. Why wouldn't it be?

 

[Brychanus]

Mako3 maybe feel wise. Mako3 is so straight though, Buzzz even though I don't throw them, I have thrown them before seems quite a bit faster and more fade (on avg).

Handled both Aviar and Luna recently and would tend to agree.

Handfeel wise I preferred Buzzz to Roc3 due to my square meatpaw. I agree that a new Buzzz (especially recent runs) runs more OS than the Mako3, I'd say more like 5 4 0 2.

Aviar PnA is pretty neutral with baby fade. Luna had less fade than I expected based on its numbers, but was close enough to the Aviar PnA handfeel that I wasn't too distracted by the difference.

 

[elmexdela]

Anyone throw the Aviar P&A/ Wizard combo? Was looking at BB Aviar/KC Pro Aviars but realized I already own an overstable beaded putter already....figured two classics would work alright together, right?

i bag a dx aviar

tried kc/bb aviars for a while

eventually settled on ions for os and s putters with a seasoned dx aviar for us

wiz would easily work but they fly like bricks might be a turn off or turn on depending on who you are

 

[the1discChallenge]

wiz would easily work but they fly like bricks might be a turn off or turn on depending on who you are

I've started to keep molds when I decide I don't like them so when I come back to them to try, I can realize I infact still don't like them.

Just took the Wizard out and can confirm they are still bricks and I still don't love them.

I'll try an Ion for throwing and maybe a KC

 

[TiltedFlipCurves]

After today's windy round I definitely need the brickiest brick around every so often besides the Classic Aviar. Of course eventually I'll have the perfect bag and still throw awful :|

 

[the1discChallenge]

Got out for a round at a mid-distance course today and stopped by a local disc shop. Felt some different putters and liked the JKs the best. That and the P&A work so well together!

Similar enough in the hand that I can throw them the same way and get different flights. Plus powering up the JK is great since it's got a good bit of stability. I'll try out the P&A/JK duo for a while and see how it works out but so far so good.

The p&a is still surprising me as I'm getting more comfortable with it off the tee too. On longer throws, the dead straight lines are awesome. Really glad I gave this disc some time.

 

[Streets]

Cracked my main Classic thrower over the weekend and popped in a pretty fresh PandA to use for a while.