[Axiom] Axiom Envy

[ThrowaEnvy]

Do many of you Envy throwers bag a stable 0/1 or 0/2ish mid like a Roc/Roc3/MD3/etc.? Something that just holds and has that drop to range it? What is the distance difference between them or do they overlap a ton in use?.

My technique is not up to your level I will need your advice one day... I also don't play wide open as much but the Envy fills a very Buzzz spot for me up to about 200' but I rarely try to throw it quite that far depends on the ceiling mostly for me it's about a 40-60' difference. So yeah it covers a lot of stable mid ish shots. The hole left in the bag is more of a straight to straight fade shot or steep downhill straight... I fill the next closest holes with a Tangent or Comet on the understable side sometimes a Buzz or Axis on the stable side but I'm more likely to pack a neutralish fairway if it was wide open the Axis would get more use.. Relay is next step up for me usually.. .

 

[in4d]

slowplastic,

I dont get the glide i would with a Roc and its not as easy to get the distance, if it feels a little out of range i just disc up to the 6.5 speed fairways and personally i have never felt like im under powering my 6.5 speed fairways or anyhting when my envy isnt within range.

There are throws that are a little easier with a midrange vs putter, but having to carry an extra disc for different shots vs being able to accomplish as many things as possible with a single disc in my opinion keeps things lighter, simpler, and personally i find it more consistent using the same disc all the time. After a while you only have one option to think about and you know exactly how its going to fly.

If i am throwing my Envy off the tee for short drives, using it for my "midrange" and approach shots, and also able to make it hyzer and work anny lines, etc then im going to get better and better with that disc, as opposed to having to decide which disc im going to throw because they overlap. I use a beat in straight n envy and an overstable P envy (and recently been experimenting with a soft neutron).

As far as "drop to range", i dont have any issue ranging my envy it has enough fade and low enough glide that its actually probably easier to range than a more glidey Roc would be for example.

The only reason i started throwing an OS putter as a midrange is because i saw a lot of Pros doing it and decided to give it a try and it worked out really well for me.

I found that i had to change my grip for throwing putters to a fan grip, even off the tee pad. it was a bit challenging at first but now shorter touch drives and upshots that were too touchy and hard to do with a midrange and power grip are now practically layups for an easy birdie.

 

[wims]

I go straight from the Envy/Proxy up to fairway drivers. I don't think the distance gap is too big. I try to keep my bag simple, even tho I don't consider myself a mold minimalist

 

[wolfmandragon]

Do many of you Envy throwers bag a stable 0/1 or 0/2ish mid like a Roc/Roc3/MD3/etc.? Something that just holds and has that drop to range it? What is the distance difference between them or do they overlap a ton in use?

Obviously more of the low line drive mids that are straight are pretty different in use, but I'm just wondering how close in distance the Envy gets to traditional midranges for people if they are trying to range an open shot.

I bag 3 Envys and a 178g Z Wasp. There is some overlap between the two. I don't use either disc much in the open, I had rather throw the Tui, Comet or Archer on a hyzer to control the range.

Where the Envy shines is when one needs to throw low and hard, knowing that the disc will get zero turn and the lack of glide will cause the disc to crash down faster than a Wasp/Roc.

Thrown high and easy, the Envy will fade sooner then a Wasp, but still keeping a good portion of its normal small glide.

Everyone always compares everything to Innova or Discraft, one cannot do that with the Envy. It is pretty unique in the way it flys...almost lid like but able to handle OAT.


Just try one out and see if you like it. It's not for everyone, but those of us whom like it, love it.

 

[deyo7]

Do many of you Envy throwers bag a stable 0/1 or 0/2ish mid like a Roc/Roc3/MD3/etc.? Something that just holds and has that drop to range it? What is the distance difference between them or do they overlap a ton in use?

Obviously more of the low line drive mids that are straight are pretty different in use, but I'm just wondering how close in distance the Envy gets to traditional midranges for people if they are trying to range an open shot.

FWIW I pair my Envy with a Verdict and a Zone and that about covers it for me on the more stable than Envy side.

Envy gets average mid distance for me.

If that helps any

 

[slowplastic]

Thanks guys, I have thrown them around in the open and absolutely love the consistency and versatility. I do like throwing normal depth putters, like the Anode, for shots <280 and then mids for 270+. I guess I'd just have to throw the Envy against mids to see if it gets out there as far for me. The stability/trust/flight path is great I know, and I know it is longer than normal putters, but I guess I'd just have to see for my own arm if it gets out to similar range to my normal diameter mids.

 

[zendragon]

When I was throwing further, I was throwing my Envies at least 250 and my Verdict around 270. Not much difference for me. The only reason I carried the Verdict was the extra stability. I've lost distance and can still get my Envies close to 240, but can't really get my Verdict any further, so I dropped the Verdict and just throw Envies, Proxies, Clashes and Craves right now. Clash suffices for my OS mid.

 

[in4d]

I can pull on an Envy harder and it wont flip compared to a Roc that might turn over on similar power, that's probably why the envy can get so much distance. Straighter flight would be more efficient transfer of energy into distance. once broken in they will hold any line you put them on, and generally they stick pretty well and on anny lines especially!

I would be able to get more distance out of a Roc type of disc though.. but at that point fairways are viable.

 

[UhhNegative]

Picked up a soft neutron Envy recently as I was wanting to test out some overmold plastic and see if I could find something with a little more comfortable rim than a Harp. Well, this thing is great. It's pretty OS (I hear this plastic is the most OS) but at the same time, gets great distance. Not sure how, but it works. I find I actually overthrow a lot of short approaches with it because I'm used to Harp levels of brick flying. I think for me it's better off the tee or 250' shot approach than a short approach. It seems to have a little too much glide for shorter approaches. Feels wonderful in the hand though. I can really sink my grip into the soft neutron plastic. Might have to try some other plastics as well.

 

[JeCroisQue]

Do many of you Envy throwers bag a stable 0/1 or 0/2ish mid like a Roc/Roc3/MD3/etc.? Something that just holds and has that drop to range it? What is the distance difference between them or do they overlap a ton in use?

Obviously more of the low line drive mids that are straight are pretty different in use, but I'm just wondering how close in distance the Envy gets to traditional midranges for people if they are trying to range an open shot.

If I'm bagging the envy (which I have been going back and forth with lately), I generally have found I do not need a neutral mid. When stepped on they are almost as long as rocs, truths, or buzzzes and they tend to fly very neutral with minimal fade. However when they are stepped on, in particular on low lines, they do not have much fade. What I have needed is an overstable mid/putter to pair with them, I.E. the zone, pig, gator, mortar etc. You could also bag a beefy champ roc. But you will most likely not find the need for a straight one. Because the envy tends to fly straight and takes a while to beat in, I also will generally be flicking the overstable mid when any shot calls for a big left to right instead of trying to turn over an envy or mid.

So depending on the shot my bag would go like this for anything from 280 and in:

Zone on a BH - Overstable Envy- Neutral Envy - Understable Envy - Zone on a FH

If the shot calls for 300+ ft I would look to be powering down one of my fairways. Basically I would have a 20 ft gap between comfortably powered down fairways and hard thrown envys that I just deal with instead of bagging a mid.

Hope that makes some sense.

 

[Stable]

Does the Electron Firm Envy have a similar stiffness to KC Pro? Needing a firm flight plate.

 

[aphilso1]

I bag an Electron (medium) Envy, and to me the best plastic comparison is to Classic Blend/Zero Medium/BT Medium from Trilogy.

I've felt up the Electron Firms a few times but never actually bagged them. My memory of them was as a touch less firm than Classic/Zero Hard, which would likewise mean they're a tad less firm than KC Pro. Not a ton softer though.

 

[aphilso1]

Anyone thrown an Eclipse Envy yet? Are they the most OS version of Envies?

 

[broomerang]

Thanks guys, I have thrown them around in the open and absolutely love the consistency and versatility. I do like throwing normal depth putters, like the Anode, for shots <280 and then mids for 270+. I guess I'd just have to throw the Envy against mids to see if it gets out there as far for me. The stability/trust/flight path is great I know, and I know it is longer than normal putters, but I guess I'd just have to see for my own arm if it gets out to similar range to my normal diameter mids.

When I was bagging the Envy if I really went hard on it I could throw it out to just shy of 350. I could backhand roll it out to about 325 too. It rolls really straight and doesn't flip over and tail right at the end. I threw it that far just to amaze people that I threw a putter on holes they would be throwing drivers on.

When I was throwing for score though I kept the Envy under 275. It's a great disc but you won't out throw your mids if you can throw mids over 300. It also doesn't shape lines very well it just goes straight. And finally the main reason I stopped bagging it (and it was probably my most thrown disc that I swore I would never stop bagging) is that it doesn't range well at all. If you can throw it 275 with a normal 80% power pull than good luck throwing it 150 unless you have room to spike hyzer it in. At lower speeds it shapes lines even worse. I kept a soft electron Atom at the time for approach and shaping duties.

I had similar problems with the Atom in regards to shaping, it would just hold whatever line you put on it to the ground, it couldn't fight out of an Anny, and was too stable to flip over from Hyzer.

Not hating on the Envy or the Atom. You should bag one for awhile, and they are very fun to throw. I had plenty of great shots with them but they don't replace mids like the MD3, Roc, Buzzz, etc. Nor do they really replace traditional putters like the Aviar.

 

[Sydex]

Does the Electron Firm Envy have a similar stiffness to KC Pro? Needing a firm flight plate.

Just looked at mine, I can't tell a difference between the two plastics in terms of stiffness.

 

[aphilso1]

In my last casual round I decided to test out putting with my Envies. I've thrown them on the practice basket at home but have always bagged a beaded putter for comfort reasons. And while putting with them for 18 holes was indeed a little uncomfortable for me, I didn't notice much of a difference in results. Made one C2 putt (pretty normal for me, since I suck from longer than about 25 feet) and my two C1 misses were both near the edge of the circle. So overall pretty normal results, if not even slightly better than normal.

I tried three different plastic types (Neutron, Soft Neutron, Electron) and each of them putted a little different. My Electron has a little dome to it and is a familiar-feeling plastic, so it was the most natural to putt with. Surprisingly though the Soft Neutron was much easier to get to the basket on long C2 putts...not sure why, maybe it's the lack of dome compared to Electron? Interesting results, but obviously a small sample size. I may try out putting Envies periodically, especially if I'm in a putting slump and need to try something different to break out of the rut.

 

[_.-Dut-._]

I like throwing with a slight anbyzer release in tunnels, so use overstable mids/putters since they won't turn over. This disc thrown with low power and with the slightest touch of anny, flies dead ass straight with just a little fade at the end. Beautiful.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

It's a great disc but you won't out throw your mids if you can throw mids over 300. It also doesn't shape lines very well it just goes straight. And finally the main reason I stopped bagging it (and it was probably my most thrown disc that I swore I would never stop bagging) is that it doesn't range well at all. If you can throw it 275 with a normal 80% power pull than good luck throwing it 150 unless you have room to spike hyzer it in. At lower speeds it shapes lines even worse.

This my story with the Envy exactly.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Anyone thrown an Eclipse Envy yet? Are they the most OS version of Envies?

Threw the Halloween one and no.. sample size of one but it's softer than regular proton by a tick also a tick less hss just as lss, putts nice and flat. Flies like my protons with some wear.

I agree with some of the ranging issues but I don't throw that far I get into more trouble when I try to lay off it a bit there's an awkward range for me between 35 and 70ft where I don't want to put too much on and it either dies or rockets past.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

So the more I throw the Halloween glow envy the more I like the plastic on the flight plate.. I like the extra flexibility and grip all the advantage of proton with a nicer plastic it's definitely as stable but less slippage I think it accounts for my straighter throws and thoughts about being a tick less hss.