Backhand "Snap" Question

[ALPO]

I would like to know from someone who throws BH with a lot of snap, what is the feeling relative to?

What I mean is, physically can you describe the feeling that takes place in your hand/wrist/forearm. When the disc leaves your hand is there anything you can compare it to? For example, I get a ton of snap when throwing forehands, and for me the grip and "flick" part come natural. If I had to compare it to another motion it would be skipping a rock. My grip (I use one finger) is a strong grip, almost exactly the same as I would hold a pencil (I used to complete homework 5 minutes before class started -- writing fast and furiously helped build some weird muscle in my index finger I believe)

A successful flick for me feels effortless and hard to describe, hence I understand the constant inability to relay, teach, and demonstrate "snap." I have thrown a few drives BH where I was able to get a generous increase of snap when compared to my average BH drives. I can't seem to replicate that form and snap often, and on the few times I have executed it, I find that it went by so fast and was so effortless I don't know what I did different.

I'm 6'4" and have a long wingspan, but god awful form. 24 of 25 of my drives will go 300 feet, but I'm chasing the elusive 1/25 that goes 400 feet and comes out with much more speed and snap. I've done it before but the frustration of not being able to replicate it leads me strong-arming and reverting to horrible technique.

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Sooner34]

Smooth, and accelerate late, is what I've been working on. It's controlled power that brings out the snap I think. Being relaxed, and then BOOM, hit point and the disc is flying. If you watch any pro they begin the "pull" slower than they finish. If you hit too early, you lose out on that sweet spot, and lose power and accuracy.

Then again, I could be leading you down a horrible rabbit hole of bad tendencies and tranny hookers. So... Grain of salt and such.

 

[morefadeplz]

It is almost unexplainable. It happens in a small fraction of a second. It happens faster than our brains can comprehend.

It feels effortless. The energy has already been spent by the time the snap occurs. Also, it is an overrated search. Don't seek snap, seek good footwork, good reach-back, good hip turn, good arm angle, and most of all good cadence and timing. The snap will happen. It is an unavoidable consequence of doing everything else good. It isn't an action, its a result. It isn't a movement, its an experience.

Work on the fundamentals. figure out how to balance your weight. Go slower, easier, smoother. The snap will happen.

 

[sidewinder22]

Effortlessly slinging a hammer. There's nothing in the realm of sports I can really compare it to, because a backhand throw is the most awkward sports endeavor I have been a part of. Closest things in sports I can think of would be a one handed golf swing.

 

[Dan Ensor]

What does it feel like? Like the disc hates me and wants to get as far away from me as possible.

 

[garublador]

Effortlessly slinging a hammer.

That's how it feels to me, too.

 

[GripEnemy]

@Sidewinder/garublador - I comprehend the hammer reference/feel/whatever, but I assume the (usual) overhand motion of a hammer and a backhand "pimp slap" like throw confuses some people. They hear an open palmed vertical analogy and aren't sure how to transition it to a closed horizontal. I can't think of a way to word said translation, but if either of you (or anyone else) understands what I'm trying to say and could explain it better than myself I think it would be beneficial to others.


Also, this.

It is an unavoidable consequence of doing everything else good. It isn't an action, its a result. It isn't a movement, its an experience.

 

[Mocheez]

Try this: from a standstill, and using a loose grip (hand At 12:00), try to use your weight shift to get disc to slam into the palm of your hand and into the right pec position. As soon as you feel the disc hit your palm, grip down, rotate your shoulders and actively snap your wrist. You should get a hoolahoop type feeling as a result of the sudden change of direction. If your timing and body positions are right, the disc should eject from your hand rather than rip out.

 

[blackcatsmith]

"horrible rabbit hole of bad tendencies and tranny hookers"? So.... in other words- the Castro?

 

[Toro71]

When it's not happening for me, it's because I'm TRYING too hard to MAKE it happen, rather than let it happen. I'm too tight. (Or I'm not following through completely.)

Mentally, I try to basically feel like my arm is dead from the elbow to hand, meaning to stay loose. It's the only way I get that "cracking the whip" feel.

The cleanest throws for me feel sort of like I'm trying to fling my hand off, if that makes any sense...?

 

[Mocheez]

"horrible rabbit hole of bad tendencies and tranny hookers"? So.... in other words- the Castro?

Yeah, I would say that is about right.

 

[dgdugg]

also, make sure you're not gripping the disc too firmly at the beginning of your reach back. As you are pulling through, start to tighten.

 

[Sooner34]

"horrible rabbit hole of bad tendencies and tranny hookers"? So.... in other words- the Castro?

Basically. Haha.

I feel like snap is a bad word to describe it. You really shouldn't hear a snap at all... Like someone else said, the disc should eject from your hand. If you hear a pronounced snap, you might be gripping too hard, and you take energy from the disc, per Feldbeard's tips. Climo says your grip pressure with your thumb should control when your disc leaves. So one could assume your thumb pressure should be roughly proportional with how far you're trying to throw. Idk. Like I said earlier in the thread, don't think so much, There's no room for thinking. Let your brain take over! Every time you make a bad throw, you should know what felt weird, or went wrong. If you dwell on it, you'll stink up the place. Just let mistakes be, and fix it next time.

Our brains are built on reward systems... Love, religion, drugs, etc. All these things are just things that make us feel good through chemical release, so our brains send signals that say, Hey! I like that! Let's do that again! Use that to your advantage.

To reiterate, breathe, clear your mind, know what you have to make the disc do, let your body do it, if you do it well, you're one step closer to doin' it one mo' again. If you screw up, your brain should send feel bad signals, and you're still one step closer, because now you know what DIDN'T work.

Does this make sense, or am I crazy? :gross:

 

[Uncle Dougie]

Try not to think of it as you're arm reaching back but instead more of your body reaching forward away from the disc. That's what usually translates to more snap in my opinion.

 

[sidewinder22]

@Sidewinder/garublador - I comprehend the hammer reference/feel/whatever, but I assume the (usual) overhand motion of a hammer and a backhand "pimp slap" like throw confuses some people. They hear an open palmed vertical analogy and aren't sure how to transition it to a closed horizontal. I can't think of a way to word said translation, but if either of you (or anyone else) understands what I'm trying to say and could explain it better than myself I think it would be beneficial to others.


Also, this.

Grip a hammer backwards so the hammer head is going to hit a nail out to the target with a backhand swing.

 

[ALPO]

To reiterate, breathe, clear your mind, know what you have to make the disc do, let your body do it, if you do it well, you're one step closer to doin' it one mo' again. If you screw up, your brain should send feel bad signals, and you're still one step closer, because now you know what DIDN'T work.

Does this make sense, or am I crazy? :gross:

This does make sense, but again, its only something I have done on rare occasion. Usually with confidence that is going to happen because there is no risk...aka the occasionally hyzer shot during a practice round. I'm still at a point where if I just let my body do the work it I get the uncoordinated and out of synch throw I am trying to leave behind.

I don't understand the effortless throwing a hammer reference. If there is nothing that you can describe in the wrist, hand and forearm part...are there any other descriptions of particular muscles that you feel flexing or getting primary use?

Again, for comparison sake, when I flick, my inner forearm muscle seems to get the majority of the work and has to feel firm and strong. Without that confidence in that muscle (in combination with wrist and grip) I don't think I could have the long drive FH shots that I have. I can literally feel the anxiety in that muscle before I try to bomb one. LIke I know that the throw will require that muscle to be used. It's hard to explain, but its as if I'm telling my body what I'm about to do it and it responds with "I'm ready"

The muscle I'm talking about is the somewhat hairless part of the inside of the forearm that flexes upon making a fist.

 

[Frolfington]

The only muscle you should actively be flexing is the big thumb one used for grip pressure, and even then it's very brief. Everything else is momentum and rotating and whatnot. If you flex muscles in your arm you won't be a slingshot. Your arm will be heavy and slow.

IMO, your occasional big throws come from letting the snap happen on its own when you do everything else right (pulling through your core, good grip, all of the timing that goes into late acceleration and letting the disc eject when you have your weight forward, etc etc).

Hope this helps! :thmbup:

 

[garublador]

I don't understand the effortless throwing a hammer reference. If there is nothing that you can describe in the wrist, hand and forearm part...are there any other descriptions of particular muscles that you feel flexing or getting primary use?

Again, for comparison sake, when I flick, my inner forearm muscle seems to get the majority of the work and has to feel firm and strong.

I know exactly what you're talking about with the forehand feel. I was getting that with my forehand before I did the hammer pound drills. It's way easier to feel than it is with backhand which is why it comes first in the hammer pound drills. I think it's because with a forehand throw the weight of the disc is enough to open your wrist enough to stretch the tendons in your arm a bit. With backhand you don't get your wrist closed enough to feel that stretch.

If I put my arm out in front of me with my wrist straight and palm down and then lift my hand so my palm is facing forward (like a police officer telling a car to stop) I can pull my fingers towards myself and feel a stretch in my wrist pretty easily. If I then put my hand down with my palm facing me and pull my fingers towards me I can eventually feel a stretch, but my hand never gets close to that position during a backhand throw.

So because of that, I can't be more specific than "throwing a hammer." If you're getting that feel forehand then you're most of the way there to feeling it with your backhand. You just have to do the drills that try to illustrate that feel and experiment until you get it.

 

[loki993]

I'm having a hard time getting any snap. I guess I need to work on the hammer drills some more but I honestly don't know if I'm even doing them right.

 

[Dan Ensor]

The only thing I know I've felt that's related to snap is the disc forcing my lock fingers open a little bit while my grip is still fairly loose (middle finger most for me). That's when I grip it as hard as I can and really try to throw it.