Ball Golf Course Tolerance

[toddnick]

It has been discussed before, but after watching first round coverage from both Utah Open and Goat Hill, I just struggle to want to watch the next round...

My tolerance is slipping...

Both courses certainly have challenges and test the players game, but open fairways, roped OB, baskets on mounds and near sand traps are just boring to watch (in my opinion)...

The big tourneys thus far have been primarily ball golf courses...

Next week, another ball golf course in SF (though this one has a bit more character), and then Santa Cruz which includes a ball golf course...

I just don't like the trend...the majority of the first half of the season is this....

I know that it has grown the sport and is better for spectators but, boring...

Makes me long to see more golf at Idlewild, Brewster Ridge, Iron Hill, Maple Hill, etc.

 

[jakebake91]

Agreed! Not much else for me to add.

 

[jeffmonty]

I just would like to add that I don't even like PLAYING dg on a ball course, never mind watching a tournament on one. Too boring. I hope it not a trend, but it seems that it is right now.

 

[DiscGolfMaster]

It's definitely more fun to watch pros play holes that you can identify with as a spectator/player. Unlike the majority of sports, disc golf is one that for those who watch it, also play it. Almost none of the diehard football fans ever actually play.

Point is, very few players even have a chance at par on most of the holes on a Golf course since distance off the tee is the main deciding factor. It is fun to watch them throw the disc so far, but it gets old fast. I'd rather watch them play a more woodsy course where I'd still be thrilled with par and see myself having a fun round at the same time.

 

[Twmccoy]

I agree the Utah course was a bit boring. That said, I don't mind watching DG coverage on ball golf courses. I thought the course they used in Vegas was nice. It gives the pros a chance to open up the big distance on some holes. I'd almost rather see that than guys struggling to thread midranges through the forest on every hole.

In a perfect world you'd get a course that combines raw power with accuracy/skill.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

There is a certain Joy to seeing those bomber shots that we will likely never make... but yeah I don't like long distance ball golf style courses.. I know distance is a big part of the game but those open courses aren't all that interesting.

 

[Streets]

Open disc golf in general is just a snoozefest. I usually stop paying attention to the videos after WACO and pick back up with BSF and the eastern half of the year...when they actually play good courses.

Even the Master's Cup to me isn't a guaranteed watch since they added that weak ball golf course to the tournament.

 

[ohtobediscing]

Being used to very wooded courses, Milo (BSF) is about as open as I prefer to play or watch. Watching Fountain Hills is just a dud. Maybe a tightly-wooded little par 3 ball course might seem interesting, but I don't know. I played Mulligans Creekside in Ogden and enjoyed it, but imbibing and offroading the golfcart may have accentuated that experience.

 

[armiller]

This happens early in the season every year for me. The Memorial isn't too much better even though not on a golf course. SFO will be a little better, but I look forward to Masters at Dela, the BSF/Portland Open, Idlewild, Maple Hill... Of course, the WACO and Nick Hyde had more than their share of technical, wooded holes. But I understand that's easily forgotten after two weekends in a row with GBO, Goat Hill, and Utah.

That said, I realize that scoring separation among the world's top disc golfers is only achieved by an annoying mix of OB and open distance, with the technicality of woods golf somehow becoming an afterthought. Fun to watch? Not particularly. But if you want to see the best try to beat each other, you have to tolerate some of that "ugly" disc golf. At the same time, just be thankful for the Milos, Maple Hills, Moraines, Deer Lakes, and Idlewilds of the world, that separate good players and still look good doing it.

 

[Mspot]

What is the reasoning for playing on these ball golf courses? I thought it was to allow more space for live spectators. Is that really worth playing on these boring courses? I would think online views would be more important. Dela is a perfect example... I love watching the original course, but I feel it is a chore to have to watch the final round on the ball golf course. I will probably just watch the last few holes on the golf course.

 

[wims]

The wood course at Dela is amazing, the ball golf course sucks bigtime. Plz no more ball golf courses. They are no good. I have never watched a good video from a ball golf course

 

[DavidSauls]

What is the reasoning for playing on these ball golf courses? I thought it was to allow more space for live spectators. Is that really worth playing on these boring courses? I would think online views would be more important. Dela is a perfect example... I love watching the original course, but I feel it is a chore to have to watch the final round on the ball golf course. I will probably just watch the last few holes on the golf course.

Good question.

Is there a significant difference between online viewership numbers on open and wooded courses?

 

[JC17393]

What is the reasoning for playing on these ball golf courses? I thought it was to allow more space for live spectators. Is that really worth playing on these boring courses? I would think online views would be more important. Dela is a perfect example... I love watching the original course, but I feel it is a chore to have to watch the final round on the ball golf course. I will probably just watch the last few holes on the golf course.

I think the biggest reason to play on the ball golf courses is it is where the tournament organizers can create a course worthy of challenging the top MPO players. Not every locale has a gold (aimed at 1000+) or even blue (aimed at 970+) level course, but may have clubs or TDs who have the ability or motivation to put together a high quality pro event. And if there's anywhere that has the space to put in a temp gold or blue level course, it's a golf course.

Sure, it might be open and "boring" but having a bunch of 400, 500, 600+ foot holes, if they're done right, is going to be a better overall challenge for the pros than playing the local deuce-or-die tracks where the winner is whoever shoots more 41s on the weekend.

I think galleries and video is a secondary consideration for most of these tournaments. For every Dela that moves to a ball golf course specifically for the extra space for spectating, I think there are plenty like the Goat Hill Challenge where galleries/cameras aren't the reason the tournament is there. It's the course itself and the alternatives in the area. Goat Hill from the longs is 10,000 feet and shorts are over 8000 feet, but the rest of the 18-hole courses in the area are in the 5000-5500 foot range. Not really sufficient for a good high level pro tournament.

 

[broomerang]

What is the reasoning for playing on these ball golf courses? I thought it was to allow more space for live spectators. Is that really worth playing on these boring courses? I would think online views would be more important. Dela is a perfect example... I love watching the original course, but I feel it is a chore to have to watch the final round on the ball golf course. I will probably just watch the last few holes on the golf course.

First I agree with JC above.

Secondly I want to point out that some locales just don't have the selection of technical, wooded, 1000+ rated amazing existing courses or the locations to build them. Installing these courses on golf courses where there is already existing facilities and at least the option to have more than painted OB (bunkers, greens, knolls, paths, etc are better than an open field with ropes) is the best option. Could the "pro tour" only stop at the "preferred courses"? Yes it could but that would be very disappointing for players in these locales that would like to come see a pro event and participate in the AM side.

Growing the (professional) sport isn't about watching Pros on TV playing the best courses in the world. It's about being able to interact with them in your backyard.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

I think the biggest reason to play on the ball golf courses is it is where the tournament organizers can create a course worthy of challenging the top MPO players. Not every locale has a gold (aimed at 1000+) or even blue (aimed at 970+) level course, but may have clubs or TDs who have the ability or motivation to put together a high quality pro event. And if there's anywhere that has the space to put in a temp gold or blue level course, it's a golf course.

Really good point... we have a small but legendary 27 hole wooded "deuce or die" (love that by the way) course.. 30+ years so legit history.. Golf Island Disc Park.. Lots of people know about it and love it.. but pro level? Not a chance.

We haven't hosted the provincials here for 15+ years or PDGA tournament's. Bring in the ball golf course in the offseason and there's OBs added to spice it and the distance gain and it had us hosting the BC provincials 2? Ish years ago and a PDGA sanctioned "Duck Golf". Tourney last month. Played both courses 18 on each. It was good, except for gale force winds haha.

OK you talked me into it, maybe I don't mind it as much but TBH I don't watch that many DG tournaments.. Maybe 5 or 6 a year.

 

[Mspot]

First I agree with JC above.


Growing the (professional) sport isn't about watching Pros on TV playing the best courses in the world. It's about being able to interact with them in your backyard.

I disagree. Interacting with these pros might be a part of "growing the sport"... but ultimately it is always about the money. Which means creating revenue. Getting views online is probably the biggest potential to create more revenue for the sport, other than people simply buying more discs. More views means more potential for advertisers which is always where the money is. Even in the big professional sports it is where the money is. How much does a 30 second ad at the superbowl cost? Millions of dollars for a short commercial.

So continuing to create better disc golf videos/tournament coverage will create more fans and more views. I still give credit to everyone that is putting on these tournaments at golf courses and trying to do best with what they may have available, but I think everyone would much rather watch all the rounds at Masters cup at the DG course as opposed to the golf course. Watching courses such as Maple hill is going to keep peoples interest way more than any ball golf course.

 

[Static Fiction]

For everyone who doesn't like the golf course trend (I'm not a fan either btw), what do you think of USDGC?

I think it's just as boring too watch as GBO, Utah, and others like these.

Edit: I also think some of the change over to ball golf courses is the decline in golf and they are trying to salvage the golf course by adding a disc gold layout.

 

[denny ritner]

While not perfect, the USDGC has remained the gold standard for major championship disc golf for a long time. The course tweeks over the years have been very thoughtful and the course is very well balanced in terms of power requirements, technicality and course management. The course is picturesque, films very well and accomodates galleries well. The downsides to the course are that it could use more woodsy tight technicality and its minimal amount of "natural OB" allowing for the display of scrambling skills.

I also think that Ledgestone, after kind of a rocky start, has made great improvements and provides a very well-rounded challenge with great filmability.

One of the challenges to filming on golf courses is lack of distance perspective in the absence of sufficient physical hazards. It would be a nice amenity to have bright markers at say 350, 450 and 550 ft. In terms of watching these tournaments I do need to suspend that part of myself that's playing the course as if I were in the tournament. Most of those holes I'd have to crush, then throw a NAGS shot and tap-in for par. (Or crush-crush-NAGS-tap or crush-crush-crush-NAGS-tap) Now I think in terms of caddying for one of the big dogs and thinking through the shots from that perspective.

Having said all that, personally I love to watch the Beaver State, MVP and Hall of Fame Classic the best.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

While not perfect, the USDGC has remained the gold standard for major championship disc golf for a long time. The course tweeks over the years have been very thoughtful and the course is very well balanced in terms of power requirements, technicality and course management. The course is picturesque, films very well and accomodates galleries well. The downsides to the course are that it could use more woodsy tight technicality and its minimal amount of "natural OB" allowing for the display of scrambling skills.

I also think that Ledgestone, after kind of a rocky start, has made great improvements and provides a very well-rounded challenge with great filmability.

One of the challenges to filming on golf courses is lack of distance perspective in the absence of sufficient physical hazards. It would be a nice amenity to have bright markers at say 350, 450 and 550 ft. In terms of watching these tournaments I do need to suspend that part of myself that's playing the course as if I were in the tournament. Most of those holes I'd have to crush, then throw a NAGS shot and tap-in for par. (Or crush-crush-NAGS-tap or crush-crush-crush-NAGS-tap) Now I think in terms of caddying for one of the big dogs and thinking through the shots from that perspective.

Having said all that, personally I love to watch the Beaver State, MVP and Hall of Fame Classic the best.

NAGS?

 

[denny ritner]

NAGS?

John Houck term: Not A Golf Shot, basically something in the 100-150 ft. range that's a pure lay-up.