Considering Moving from Open to Am1?

[wake911]

there is a difference between playing up and being a pro pdga member. You pay to be a pro pdga member, you should play open. I've always disagreed with the pdga stance that <970 could still play amateur divisions. If after playing open for at least a year with no cashing, and your rating is below the threshold, you can change your membership to amateur if you'd like to play amateur divisions.

off topic\

I wouldn't be surprised to see more tournaments (NT/Majors) going the way of Vibram and USDGC, where you have to qualify through a strict set of circumstances. This will be where the largest money payouts will be too. There will still be other big tournaments with an "open" mentality. I think it's important to keep the "I could play Worlds or this other big event and possibly get to play a round with some of the best in the world!!!" that is exciting stuff, but over time, just like golf, disc golf will get more elite at the top, more restrictive, and more money involved. While somehow still holding onto the accessible nature of the sport that brought so many of us to it.

/off topic

 

[Toro71]

^^right, but 975 + advance am heroes should NOT be embarrassed?

 

[mashnut]

975 is only 40 points above the top of the intermediate, you think that 974 ams should be protected from those 975 rated players? The two lowest am divisions have a 50 point spread and intermediate has a 35 point spread, why should Advanced be smaller?

 

[The Hammer]

975 is only 40 points above the top of the intermediate, you think that 974 ams should be protected from those 975 rated players? The two lowest am divisions have a 50 point spread and intermediate has a 35 point spread, why should Advanced be smaller?

IMO the higher up you go in ratings, the greater the skill gap between ratings. What I mean by that is that the difference in skill between a 880 rated golfer and a 920 is less than the difference in skill of a 980 and 1020 rated golfer.

 

[krupicka]

Keep in mind that a golfer who is looking out for only their own benefit will think that every other golfer should play up. Those that are in higher division are looking for easy money, those in the lower divisions are looking to get rid of their competition.

 

[gcr_russell]

IMO the higher up you go in ratings, the greater the skill gap between ratings. What I mean by that is that the difference in skill between a 880 rated golfer and a 920 is less than the difference in skill of a 980 and 1020 rated golfer.

That couldn't be more true. All said I'm reconsidering the switch a little bit, but will continue to give it thought. On to 100 Holes of Hell in a few weeks in Open at a course I play well.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

IMO the higher up you go in ratings, the greater the skill gap between ratings. What I mean by that is that the difference in skill between a 880 rated golfer and a 920 is less than the difference in skill of a 980 and 1020 rated golfer.

absolutely. and the difference between a 935 and 975 is much larger than a 895 and 935.

also, when someone gets a rating a 975, they arent having really bad rds anymore. at 936, you could still be throwing sub 870 rds and keep your rating.

 

[JTacoma03]

Back in the 90's we had a pretty good advanced player in Va who won many events. He played in a few Open tourneys but never really felt that he was ready. These days he is still playing advanced at the intermediate level. I've always felt that he didn't take the next step in the progression of his game. Even in my own game when I was having medical issues and problems with my confidence and ability I stuck with the open division. I had been a pro for many years when my rating fell to the intermediate level. It made me try harder and now my rating is the highest it's ever been.

^^ QFT.

@GCR - Don't use AM divisions as a crutch.

At the end of last season I was playing solid 950/960 rated tournament golf, and continuing to improve every tournament. I wasn't able to get my practice times in during the offseason, and the one tournament I played this year dropped by rating from 940 to 927. It was that bad.

Point is, we're in similar boats. We both know we're better than we've been playing (and mental game is a big part of it for me too!). You don't need to mold minimalize, you don't need to swap bags, etc. Just practice dude! It's a slump and you'll get back up there, just work through it.

That's my motivational .02

 

[whiz]

I would recommend playing advanced. I got a bit burned out myself. I can play at a decent advanced level but to compete in Open where I live would require more practice time (read: more of my life) than I am willing to devote at the moment. (My personal estimate would be a solid 20+ hours of play per week which is tough for a guy with a full-time job and other obligations). Play the division you will have the most fun in. This may be playing advanced and being competitive or just playing open and having fun (what some would call "donating"). Do what makes you happy and keeps your enjoyment of the game high.

 

[kerplunk]

I am surprised no-one has mentioned the cost/benefit on the $$$ side of things.

If you cash in pro, you get real $$. If you cash in AM1 you get discs or maybe other cool merch, depending on the TD (this seems to be getting more popular). You then have to sell this merch to make actual $$, but I guess as a top Am player you will get enough to sell it cheap and still recoup your entry fee plus a little profit.

So I guess you have to decide whether you want a long shot at money or an almost sure thing in merch. Of course the difference in entry fee should also come into this equation, plus I think the payout distribution is usually "steeper" in open, but I could be wrong.

 

[gcr_russell]

Time to go practice in 115 degree heat. Maybe I'll help shift my mindset now and have a shot at winning in Open and will shut myself up.

 

[gdub58]

gdub - I think you might be surprised at how much the top guys do want those lower rated guys in their division. They're playing with them for at most one round, and they're adding an extra chunk of cash to the pool without being likely to compete for any of it. Most pros would probably choose to have a bigger field even if that meant more lower rated players filling up the bottom of that pool.

I don't quite agree that it should be embarrassing to play up beyond your rating. I don't think players should ever be forced to play up, but it's certainly not that big a deal to me if they choose to do so.

Of course the top pros want the lower ranked players in their division - it's added cash. But, having a player who doesn't have any business in that division on their card? I doubt it.

I admit that embarrassing is perhaps too strong a word, but I maintain that players should earn the right to play at the higher divisions.

 

[gdub58]

Ha. What if the open division in your area had only 1-2 guys rated >1000, and to be in the top ten in the entire state, your rating only needs to be over 980?

I'm speaking in mostly theoretical terms. Obviously, in the situation you describe, there are only a handful of players who can compete together unless they travel to other states or when the tour comes to town. If that group doesn't mind playing against the same few people at every local tournament, then that's the reality in that area. But pretending that having a bigger open division with a bunch of lower rated players is preferable in any way other than creating a bigger prize pool for those same select few is silly...

 

[gdub58]

How is playing up "entitled??"

The more entitled attitude is a player trying to play in the lowest division possible just to cash in on prizes.

The entitlement I'm referring to is found in some of the responses to my post. Many players feel like they should get to play up in whatever division they want - "It's my money and if I want to donate that's my right". My point is that in other sports - specifically ball golf - you generally don't get to play with the big boys unless you are good enough to earn the right be competitive with them. That applies not only to the big tour, but at the local levels as well.

Playing down just to cash in is just sad.

 

[Jeasy13]

I don't like this attitude either. I mostly see it from people who play up and expect everyone else to as well. Then when they get beat by someone who's well within the qualifying ratings for that division, they complain about it.

Those times a billion. When I was playing am2(with a 915 rating) there would always be one turd on every card that would tell me I was a bagger and that I needed to move up, to which I replied maybe you should go back to Rec. 9 times out of 10 it Would be someone rated less than 900. My problem was(and still is, but to a lesser degree) shooting a 980 rated round, followed by a 910 rated round... Followed by a 870 rated rounds. After 3 tournaments in a row with a 100 or more point swing in round ratings, I decided it was all mental and moved up after taking a little time off from tournaments.Haven't shot a round over 970 since then, but haven't shot one lower than 920 since.

 

[JTacoma03]

Time to go practice in 115 degree heat. Maybe I'll help shift my mindset now and have a shot at winning in Open and will shut myself up.

That's it!

Just aim to get a little bit better each day. You'll beat and surpass yourself.

 

[AndyJB]

I played Rec at my last tournament (Kooky Noosa in Libby, MT) because I was definetly in that division, ratings-wise (around a 764 at the time) and played two pretty hot rounds. I didn't win, but I played really well. The guy who beat me, it was his first tournament and he was just ****-hot that day. I couldn't even be mad...he wasn't bagging at all, by the way. He'd never even played the course before.

nevertheless, we beat the 3rd and 4th place players by a hefty margin...I beat 3rd by 9 throws and I lost to 1st place by 5. Immediately we got the bad ear for being sandbaggers and all that...which is ridiculous because the prizes for Rec weren't even that great. but I did get a sick trophy.

ANYWAY...I started doubting myself and wondering if I should move up. I've been steadily improving. My three PDGA ratings were: 764, 796 and now 839. BUT, that still puts me solidly in the Rec division. Not for a lack of trying, I assure you. Now that I've moved to Korea, I feel I can move up to Intermediate and still play well and improve my game and possibly even win a tournament or two. But were I back in Colorado, I would just get trounced by the 850-900 rated players.

So it's a tricky situation. it partly depends on your location. It partly depends on your confidence. it partly depends on your goals. For me, my goal is to never have to move down. If my rating doesn't drastically improve and I get back to the states in 2014...well, to keep my goal I'm going to have to stay in Intermediate. I'll lose...a lot. but all in all it will make me a better player.

Really all that matters in the OPs decision is him, and what he can live with. If you are good enough for Open, and have certain goals in mind, it will probably be worth it to stick it out. I dunno.

 

[nolangherity]

man disc golf is mental but not THIS mental. maybe you should just not compete.. not sure you have it in ya.

 

[wake911]

Of course the top pros want the lower ranked players in their division - it's added cash. But, having a player who doesn't have any business in that division on their card? I doubt it.

It all depends on how the low rated player handles themselves. I enjoy playing up in open.

I learn so much from playing in bigger tournaments with much better players. My skills are really coming along from this. Am i going to win? No way. Do I have a chance to cash? Possibly, if I play very well and get some luck.

The key when playing up as a lower rated player is pace of play and extra courtesy. DON'T get upset after a bad throw, don't kill the buzz the better players are having, don't distract them. Play off their actions and attitudes and pay attention, you can really learn a lot playing with very good players.

All this is common tournament courtesy, but especially important if (by rating alone) you don't belong in that division.

 

[spikodelhyzer]

Play disc golf to have fun and relax. Play the division where that is possible. If you are stressing the whole time in pro, then don't play pro.