Copyright Issues

[crd 81]

They are clearly different fonts. One also uses more similar fonts on the main letters as the smaller words. The other does not, and uses some angling on the fonts (tilted on each end)...I'm not a font expert obviously since I don't know what that is called and even I can tell that. Also one gives the extended, non-abbreviated title underneath whereas the other adds more to the name with the smaller words. There is also a logo behind one of them. Colours, outlining, textures, etc. are all different.

To me this is like saying there are 12 notes in western music, anyone who makes a song with these notes is clearly copying EVERYTHING before it since they used some of the same notes, rather than inventing a new relationship between the frequencies and then creating music accordingly.

Plus this is a different situation than what the thread was originally discussing.

I agree with you that there are obvious differences in the fonts. I think, however, that people are pointing out the similarities between the actual letters and the way they are structured. The "P" in MVP looks structurally similar to the "P" in AVP, even if the font is different. Each letter shares that kind of similarity.

Like I said before, it may be a matter of coincidence and nothing nefarious on the part of MVP. I don't think the MVP logo is as egregious as putting Jerry Garcia on a Wizard. There is no uncertainty on whether or not the person stamping the disc wanted a Jerry Garcia stamped wizard. It's pretty clear.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

companies change fonts all the time. That post isnt even relevant to this topic which has been said a few times over now.

Hell you can have the same exact name etc no problem as long as not in competing businesses.

As i pointed out there are tons of blocked lettered innova companies... Who cares'

 

[MikeTheBlueCow]

The difference between "inspired by" and "direct copy of" is massive in the legal copyright world. Even if the MVP logo was inspired by the AVP logo, it does not truly matter because it cannot possibly be mistaken as the same thing... it is a different name, in a different industry, and has more design in the logo than just the letters. It is a style that is used in other places assuredly. Whereas I have seen a Gateway stamp of C3PO and R2D2 on one of their discs, which is obvious that it is not their own design, they simply took a design they did not have licensing for and put it on their product without the right or permission to do so. There is a clear difference between these two types of acts.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

To shed a little light, you typically will not create a Logo with a standard font (obviously not always the case), to be unique and set yourself apart from anyone and everyone else that may and will use that same font, for obvious reasons… So, what designers do will create a typeface or modify a font to be unique… As in the AVP logo, and then MVP just tweaked it 5%. And to say the bottom is a different font is whatever, thats a tagline, the actual logo is the MVP (with design elements).

Maybe AVP stole it before MVP, but I doubt it?

It was probably designed by a friend of a friend in the early days. And the person who did the "design" did some research on the internet and unfortunately didn't create something completely original. It happens.

Im pretty sure disc golf design nerds also like Alien and Predator movies. lol

 

[dashiellx]

On the MVP/AVP issue:

There is a difference between a "font" and a "typeface". A font is a computer program that tells your computer/printer how to display a typeface. The program (i.e. the font) can be protected by copyrights, but typefaces are not protected by copyright law in the US (they are in other countries though). For example, although you select "Helvetica" as a font in your program, it's actually a typeface. The software that tells your display or printer to show a letter in "Helvetica" is the font.

Also, when you buy a computer program that display's font, you have purchased the license to use that font for most purposes.

 

[Streets]

On the MVP/AVP issue:

There is a difference between a "font" and a "typeface". A font is a computer program that tells your computer/printer how to display a typeface. The program (i.e. the font) can be protected by copyrights, but typefaces are not protected by copyright law in the US (they are in other countries though). For example, although you select "Helvetica" as a font in your program, it's actually a typeface. The software that tells your display or printer to show a letter in "Helvetica" is the font.

Also, when you buy a computer program that display's font, you have purchased the license to use that font for most purposes.

This blew my mind when my graphic designer wife told me what a font actually was.

 

[Hampstead]

 

[dashiellx]

^I remember that came up when Prodigy started. I'm guessing the typeface and star a different enough to get by, especially since business type is completely different.

 

[SonicGuy]

^I remember that came up when Prodigy started. I'm guessing the typeface and star a different enough to get by, especially since business type is completely different.

Not that Prodigy would have any qualms about running a slipshod company...

 

[Horsman]

Getting pretty fed up with Les White as well and his rip offs of Marvel.

 

[ilmcgee]

I may have missed it, if so sorry. Is there a difference when dyeing discs? I've seen plenty of discs with copyrighted material that were dyed. Or is it ok if it is not intended for sale?

 

[jeverett]

I may have missed it, if so sorry. Is there a difference when dyeing discs? I've seen plenty of discs with copyrighted material that were dyed. Or is it ok if it is not intended for sale?

To my understanding, (legally) in addition to not being intended for sale, there are two other requirements: 1. You legally acquired the copyrighted material, and 2. You aren't distributing it (even for free).

 

[disctildeath]

A). What kind of business would be forced to steal IP or face bankruptcy?

B). IP thieves are rats first.

Well, unfortunately many smaller companies do this, I have done deli/bakery work before for different grocery stores, and while say a Wal-Mart or fairly well known regional chain has a clear cut regulation they will enforce, I have worked for smaller companies that in order to get any dollar they can go for the "never tell a customer no, no matter how ridiculous their request", and we would be told we had to take a cake order by the owner even if they wanted copyrighted images they didn't offer in the book.

 

[ilmcgee]

To my understanding, (legally) in addition to not being intended for sale, there are two other requirements: 1. You legally acquired the copyrighted material, and 2. You aren't distributing it (even for free).

I figured. Thanks for your response.

 

[JTacoma03]

To my understanding, (legally) in addition to not being intended for sale, there are two other requirements: 1. You legally acquired the copyrighted material, and 2. You aren't distributing it (even for free).

The #2 is a very good point that I haven't been including in my posts.


That said, that's the letter of the law, the reality is - your business and/or distribution reach has to be big enough to catch the attention...

...so it actually reveals some key info about how well (or rather, not well) Gateway is doing overall if their scent hasn't been picked up.

Not trying to pick on Gateway or anything, but the fact that they're on social media doing it (or maybe it's just their reps? Not totally certain tbh) without yet being shut down says something.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I heard dave mac is part of the illuminati.

Like Avery!!!!!

thats exactly why avery left. he yearns for the spotlight and knows that the pdga isnt um.. affiliated. if you know what i mean. lets just say theres a little 'club' of successful people that use a certain symbol to identify themselves:

yes folks im saying avery jenkins joined the illuminati. think thats a silly claim? google image search his name and its obvious. i highlighted the proof in the following photos:

i think we'll be seeing big things from avery in the near future...

 

[Aim For The Chains]

 

[ZAMson]

Well, pretty embarrassing use of my time here. Shameful finger-pointing, ugliness, hypocrisy, etc. I don't know any real commercial copyright rules, I just know artistic integrity and vaguely aim to not cross any lines of unoriginality in my own work, which is the only business I need to have my nose in. Best I can do is try to learn from doing crazy sh*t again.

 

[art_vandelay]

Yesterday I bought a nice RFF Wizard, ZOFO Zeppelin stamped even though I'm one of the people that wishes GDS would stop making them without paying royalties. My reasoning is that I bought LZ's original vinyl albums. Bought same albums on cassette tape, some on 8 track tape. Bought the same albums when they came out on Compact Disc. This has happened with most of my favorite music. I doubt that the copyright holders felt sorry for me as they took my money. :\

 

[Discette]

Well, pretty embarrassing use of my time here. Shameful finger-pointing, ugliness, hypocrisy, etc. I don't know any real commercial copyright rules, I just know artistic integrity and vaguely aim to not cross any lines of unoriginality in my own work, which is the only business I need to have my nose in. Best I can do is try to learn from doing crazy sh*t again.

I don't think you need to apologize for putting Gateway on the hotseat. Folks here seem very quick to condemn you as a rat or some kind of hypocrite while giving Gateway a free pass. Gateway defenders think it is okay to openly use art from Disney because Gateway is not being "hypocritical" about it. Besides, they argue that Disney is so big and rich they won't even notice or care. Apparently thieves are better than hypocrites and rats.


As stated earlier in this thread, the local grocery store won't put licensed artwork on a cake. They would rather lose $10 in business than commit an unlawful act. Sure, Disney would never, ever know they put C3PO on a cake and Disney would never miss the money. However, the store owners and managers are doing the right thing, not the easy profit thing.


While I am not a part of the Gyro fan club Zam created, I must applaud Zam for trying to do the right thing! :clap: