Course Shaming?

[Stardoggy]

Heck at least it's a dry heat.

Here in NC we get a string of 100+ degree days most summers and that usually comes with 95% humidity. We still play, just have to bring more water and less beer.:thmbdown:

I lived in the desert for a year (29 Palms, CA). I couldn't imagine playing in that (dry) heat.

Less beers sounds horrible, as well. I've played in NC/SC a little, but it wasn't more than 85º. I guess I got lucky.

 

[runningDoc]

are you trying to create "East Coast" vs. "West Coast" Beef?

I remember reading SW22's review of FDR DG park in NY and he loved the front nine (which is a very New England-y/North Eastern-y wooded course) and didn't like the back nine (because its quite open and like those AZ courses such as Fountain Hills (like the OP is referring to).

A lot of the locals feel the same way (front nine is an epic woods-y course) back nine is weirdo open bomber course... but I love the fact there is an open bomber course (even if its a back 9) because that is a rarity in the north east.

open holes can be just as challenging (due to length, wind, ect) and if done right need just as much line shaping, having more options than

as to weather being a factor, its undeniable that certain certain places have advantages thats not limited to East and West Coast though... think about the NC people, they can play year round and have all the seasons too. That can be seen as an even bigger advantage (knowing how to play in the cold, and heat, leaves, no leaves).

Since there's no ICE Bowl Major (there really should be a major or NT thats held in the snow) knowing how to play in a foot of snow or super frigid temps isn't really an advantage, but something the northerners just have to deal with if we want to play the game we love.

ratings, subjective ratings, expert ratings, can all be useful. if its some yokel who rated a course badly because of rain, big trees, lack of trees, or something frivolous then you can just move on and take note. there's a "found this rating useful" sub rating that helps root out the lame reviews.

 

[Stardoggy]

I remember reading SW22's review of FDR DG park in NY and he loved the front nine (which is a very New England-y/North Eastern-y wooded course) and didn't like the back nine (because its quite open and like those AZ courses such as Fountain Hills (like the OP is referring to).

A lot of the locals feel the same way (front nine is an epic woods-y course) back nine is weirdo open bomber course... but I love the fact there is an open bomber course (even if its a back 9) because that is a rarity in the north east.

open holes can be just as challenging (due to length, wind, ect) and if done right need just as much line shaping, having more options than

The best courses find a way to intertwine those holes, so they don't feel repetitive.

 

[Barefooter]

Please explain why any course isn't playable year round, outside of baskets being pulled?

Reasons a course may not be playable year-round:

1. No one mows.
2. No one shovels 3 feet of snow.
3. Holiday decorations.
4. Yearly flooding.
5. It's on a ski resort.
6. It's in a summer camp.
7. Private club.

 

[runningDoc]

The best courses find a way to intertwine those holes, so they don't feel repetitive.

Something like Warwick which is simultaneously open bomber (but in reality you need to hit specific lines even on the big holes) + north east woods mixes the two perfectly, but again its really the exception to the rule here in the north east.

 

[Stardoggy]

Reasons a course may not be playable year-round:

1. No one mows.
2. No one shovels 3 feet of snow.
3. Holiday decorations.
4. Yearly flooding.
5. It's on a ski resort.
6. It's in a summer camp.
7. Private club.

1. Debatable.
2. Ribbon up.
3. Interesting. Never seen that one.
4. Yes, but that's probably baskets being pulled.
5. Hopefully you're smart enough to call ahead.
6. See #5.

 

[Barefooter]

Fort Zumwalt Park North of St. Louis closes for 2 months or better for a yearly holiday installation, I am sure it's not the only one.

Oh, 8. Hunting season.

 

[Stardoggy]

8. Yep. Rollin' Ridge closes for hunting season. But, it's clearly marked at the course, and on their webpage.

 

[sidewinder22]

The best courses find a way to intertwine those holes, so they don't feel repetitive.

True, if those holes could have been intertwined more I probably would have rated it a little higher. Unfortunately it could not have been physically designed that way without major earth moving or major backtracking/walking.

 

[lyleoross]

Somehow, I thought a thread titled course shaming would start out, "bad course, bad course, you made me shoot five over!"

Since course reviews are entirely subjective, it seems a difficult row to hoe. I would think a "Good Course" would have a great mixture of every type of shot possible. The more types of shots represented, the more tactical your game has to be to shoot well. Anything else is, again, purely subjective. If a course is all trees, or all open fairways, or all left to right, or vice versa, it's incomplete. It needs to have a sample of each. This is what I like about the USDGC course. It is designed to test every aspect of the game and to eliminate what I will call short cuts on holes - the hole that is meant to be a low tunnel that can be beat with a high tomahawk throw. Even Worlds doesn't always do this, at Pittsburg there were a number of holes where the big arms just went over the top. If the course design forces the type of throw the designer was thinking of, then it's a good course IMO.

 

[sidewinder22]

9. Farming season
10. Calving season

 

[Consult20]

11. Baskets pulled (pretty common around here in the winter)

 

[Stardoggy]

11. Baskets pulled (pretty common around here in the winter)

Yeah, that's been covered.

 

[reposado]

Does a course that's not playable year round/Snow get a lower rating than you would normally give?

no. I rate the experience(s) I have on the course without considering when it's open. imo the review should be how the course while it is open(or an average of all times that it is open)

that said, I begrudge no one's review criteria

Does a course that has very few trees but can be played year round, get a higher rating than you would normally give?

the above is true regardless of tree count

 

[reposado]

I get it, u play in the snow. Im just curious how ppl that go on vacation rate courses. If it was your first flip visit and it had a foot of snow how would you rate it? Then if you went for a second visit to flip in mid summer, would you change your rating?

I would likely not rate it very well the first time. after the second time, I would raise the rating to an average of what it deserved with the snow and without the snow. i'm not rating the optimal condition, i'm rating the average condition to my knowledge.

of chances of me going to a place with snow in the winter is quite slim

 

[Pbmercil]

are you trying to create "East Coast" vs. "West Coast" Beef?

That would be dumb because everyone knows east coast golf is vastly superior.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The rarely used term "North Coast" is probably best for variety as mentioned before.

 

[Spike Hyzer 23]

Viewer friendly is meaningless, since the sport hasn't received huge TV money and coverage.
It's a ****ty, ****ty, ****ty course. ALL open courses are terrible. It's the fundamental problem with the game.
To make it more like ball golf--which should be the goal--we need to eliminate arbitrary OB. In ball golf, you
can even play the ball over the red line if it is in a small amount of water. It's not a penalty. If you can reach a disc,
you should be able to play it.

All courses like this should be closed down, or at the very least never host tournaments or leagues. The only way
to make disc more like ball golf is to have natural hazards that only invoke natural penalties (that is, if you can't
make a shot out of the woods after you clipped a tree and went 50 feet in and landed 150 feet short, you will take
one or more extra shots to get out and get to the green; if you are a hero, you will still park the shot from that area
and get your par).

That's what golf is about. Testing skill. Not giving arbitrary penalties for going into eminently playable areas.

Um...here in WI and MN we play year round in all conditions. You want a test? Try that.

 

[Spike Hyzer 23]

Bad courses should be shamed.
End of story.

 

[Stardoggy]

Viewer friendly is meaningless, since the sport hasn't received huge TV money and coverage.
It's a ****ty, ****ty, ****ty course. ALL open courses are terrible. It's the fundamental problem with the game.
To make it more like ball golf--which should be the goal--we need to eliminate arbitrary OB. In ball golf, you
can even play the ball over the red line if it is in a small amount of water. It's not a penalty. If you can reach a disc,
you should be able to play it.

All courses like this should be closed down, or at the very least never host tournaments or leagues. The only way
to make disc more like ball golf is to have natural hazards that only invoke natural penalties (that is, if you can't
make a shot out of the woods after you clipped a tree and went 50 feet in and landed 150 feet short, you will take
one or more extra shots to get out and get to the green; if you are a hero, you will still park the shot from that area
and get your par).

That's what golf is about. Testing skill. Not giving arbitrary penalties for going into eminently playable areas.

Um...here in WI and MN we play year round in all conditions. You want a test? Try that.

Bad courses should be shamed.
End of story.

At least you're being reasonable, and offering to take other opinions into account.