Creating the Tournament Atmosphere

[bradharris]

I've been pondering this today after a fairly unpleasant experience in my last tournament.

Without going into too much detail, I was carded with someone who took a very casual attitude towards the rules, particularly with regard to rules like marking and properly holing out on "gimmes" which are often relaxed in casual play. Not to mention, he was under the influence of a variety of different substances, some of which he continued to consume throughout the round. When I explained that I prefer to take sanctioned play more seriously, he gave me a "come on man, lighten up" kind of attitude.

The problem was a stark contrast in attitude. It was the second round and we were well out of contention, so there was very little to play for. I still wanted to compete and try to improve upon a poor first round, and he wanted to party and play it like his usual casual or league rounds.

So the discussion I want to have is this: what can be done to better instill an atmosphere of serious competition at tournaments?

 

[TimSyl]

Zebra can't change his stripes unfortunately. Good luck.

 

[threevok]

Play better. The partiers tend to aggregate at the bottom cards.

 

[ejvogie]

You need a TD that's serious about enforcing PDGA code, including what's allowed to be consumed during a round.

That said, I can't recall a tournament round (or even random draw dubs) where a smoker/toker didn't ask if it was OK

 

[JC17393]

I've been pondering this today after a fairly unpleasant experience in my last tournament.

Without going into too much detail, I was carded with someone who took a very casual attitude towards the rules, particularly with regard to rules like marking and properly holing out on "gimmes" which are often relaxed in casual play. Not to mention, he was under the influence of a variety of different substances, some of which he continued to consume throughout the round. When I explained that I prefer to take sanctioned play more seriously, he gave me a "come on man, lighten up" kind of attitude.

The problem was a stark contrast in attitude. It was the second round and we were well out of contention, so there was very little to play for. I still wanted to compete and try to improve upon a poor first round, and he wanted to party and play it like his usual casual or league rounds.

So the discussion I want to have is this: what can be done to better instill an atmosphere of serious competition at tournaments?

I think the biggest thing that can be done is TDs being more vocal about and supportive of the so-called "tournament atmosphere". TDs set the tone for their events more than people tend to realize, including the TDs themselves. If they run unsanctioned, all bets are off in terms of expectations of "tournament atmosphere". If they sanction, it ratchets up the seriousness to varying degrees but even that is problematic by itself.

In some regions, everything is sanctioned. Elsewhere, sanctioning is almost the exception rather than the rule. Being in an area where sanctioning tends to be the exception, sanctioning by itself comes with an air of seriousness that can sometimes carry the day with no other effort at all. Just the contrast of sanctioned versus unsanctioned is enough back-up for a player to call out another for picking up a gimme or not marking properly or asking them to put the pipe/bottle away and not get any push back.

Where it gets tricky is where there is no contrast because everything is sanctioned. That's where the TD can make the difference. It doesn't even really have to be verbal, but in how he/she goes about running the event, how much prep goes into it (on the course and with registration/player packs/prize packs/added cash/etc). The more effort made by the TD to make it look and feel like a professionally run event, the more seriously the players tend to take it.

Beyond that, I think all players can really do is act the way they'd like everyone to act. If that makes you seem like a stick in the mud to the guy who just wants to "have fun" so be it. Be polite about asking your groupmates to follow the rules, but be firm about it too. If they can't handle a polite request (or two), that's on them. Eventually they should get the hint.

 

[corin_brown]

In some regions, everything is sanctioned. Elsewhere, sanctioning is almost the exception rather than the rule. Being in an area where sanctioning tends to be the exception, sanctioning by itself comes with an air of seriousness that can sometimes carry the day with no other effort at all. Just the contrast of sanctioned versus unsanctioned is enough back-up for a player to call out another for picking up a gimme or not marking properly or asking them to put the pipe/bottle away and not get any push back.

^This is an excellent point I hadn't even considered.

Aside from the the sanctioning thing, I'd have to say the higher the registration fees are, the better the attitudes the players will have and more serious the players will be. That's true of playing in higher skill divisions too, as other have pointed out.

So maybe play in events with higher fees and play in one division higher than you're used to?

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm not sure why someone else's attitude would affect your own play against the course unless they were distracting when you throw.

 

[Hampstead]

A few years ago, during an Ice Bowl, a guy had a jar of moonshine with him. He drank quite a bit of it and would loudly demand that those around him do the same. He refused to use his mini and would pick up his disc and throw from somewhere in the general vicinity. When people mentioned it to him, his response was that it was a charity event (while true, it was a sanctioned C-tier). A few complaints to the TD and the guy was kicked out of the tourney and suspended from PDGA play for a few months (maybe 6?).

If somebody refuses to behave themselves and blatantly disregards the rules of PDGA play, you can't just silently stew about it, you need to tell the TD. If the TD doesn't care enough to do anything about it, then maybe it's best to skip events run by that TD.

 

[MichaelWebster]

Enforce the rules. Players can't be picking up tap-ins in a sanctioned tournament.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[jeffmonty]

Tournament play is a different animal than casual play, and new players need to understand this. On the other hand, I've found myself not wanting to be a "rules nazi" to a new player, as I don't want to discourage them from playing tournaments. Sometimes it's a metter of how much of a douche the other guy is being.

I don't really have an answer for you, I think there is always going to be these guys. it's unfortunate they try to make you look like the bad guy when you are just trying to teach them proper etiquette.

 

[JC17393]

Tournament play is a different animal than casual play, and new players need to understand this. On the other hand, I've found myself not wanting to be a "rules nazi" to a new player, as I don't want to discourage them from playing tournaments. Sometimes it's a metter of how much of a douche the other guy is being.

I don't really have an answer for you, I think there is always going to be these guys. it's unfortunate they try to make you look like the bad guy when you are just trying to teach them proper etiquette.

In my experience, the guy who responds to reminders and requests about following rules with "lighten up man" is not a tournament newb. The tournament newb who picks up a gimme or fails to mark properly will generally respond to a reminder or tip about the rules with contrition and an "oh, I didn't know," adjust accordingly and go on with his round. Maybe he grumbles after the round about the rules guy, depending on the tone you take with him, but he's not going to be openly defiant about following rules in his first time in a tournament.

Only a person who's done it before would be arrogant enough to shrug off playing by the rules as inappropriate behavior in a tournament.

 

[ru4por]

Agree with JC below. A professionally run tournament is a great start. Well organized, pre reg helps, organized player pack pickup and sign in. A well thought out players meeting. Many here will make a point of reviewing drinking, smoking rules. If an event is run like a league or casual event, it is often treated as such.

 

[biscoe]

If the OP is referring to the tournament he played Sunday it was a well organized, well run event. I can also hazard a guess as to the offending player and if I am correct, he is not new to tournament play. It was one of those "death march in the rain" on a long course covered with OB days, not that that has anything to do with anything.

 

[bradharris]

I think the biggest thing that can be done is TDs being more vocal about and supportive of the so-called "tournament atmosphere". TDs set the tone for their events more than people tend to realize, including the TDs themselves. If they run unsanctioned, all bets are off in terms of expectations of "tournament atmosphere". If they sanction, it ratchets up the seriousness to varying degrees but even that is problematic by itself.

In some regions, everything is sanctioned. Elsewhere, sanctioning is almost the exception rather than the rule. Being in an area where sanctioning tends to be the exception, sanctioning by itself comes with an air of seriousness that can sometimes carry the day with no other effort at all. Just the contrast of sanctioned versus unsanctioned is enough back-up for a player to call out another for picking up a gimme or not marking properly or asking them to put the pipe/bottle away and not get any push back.

Where it gets tricky is where there is no contrast because everything is sanctioned. That's where the TD can make the difference. It doesn't even really have to be verbal, but in how he/she goes about running the event, how much prep goes into it (on the course and with registration/player packs/prize packs/added cash/etc). The more effort made by the TD to make it look and feel like a professionally run event, the more seriously the players tend to take it.

Beyond that, I think all players can really do is act the way they'd like everyone to act. If that makes you seem like a stick in the mud to the guy who just wants to "have fun" so be it. Be polite about asking your groupmates to follow the rules, but be firm about it too. If they can't handle a polite request (or two), that's on them. Eventually they should get the hint.

Having played in your corner of the world for many years, I understand the point about sanctioning. In New England, there were state level points series, NEFA points series, and the occasional PDGA sanctioning. It seemed that to me, NEFA points meant more than PDGA sanctioning as far as creating a more competitive, serious feel.

I think that's one thing that helps. When you're playing for points, every place matters, so even last card is still playing for something. It also makes each individual event feel like it's a part of something bigger.

I'm not sure why someone else's attitude would affect your own play against the course unless they were distracting when you throw.

It didn't. I still played moderately well. But it wasn't a very enjoyable round.

Tournament play is a different animal than casual play, and new players need to understand this. On the other hand, I've found myself not wanting to be a "rules nazi" to a new player, as I don't want to discourage them from playing tournaments. Sometimes it's a metter of how much of a douche the other guy is being.

I don't really have an answer for you, I think there is always going to be these guys. it's unfortunate they try to make you look like the bad guy when you are just trying to teach them proper etiquette.

He definitely was not a newbie. He knew the rules, and he wanted to relax the ones that seemed more like a formality. As JC said, it's not the newbie that's going to take a more cavalier attitude to the rules. It's the guy whose been through tournament play before, and is generally familiar with the course, the people around him, and the people running the event.

If the OP is referring to the tournament he played Sunday it was a well organized, well run event. I can also hazard a guess as to the offending player and if I am correct, he is not new to tournament play. It was one of those "death march in the rain" on a long course covered with OB days, not that that has anything to do with anything.

I have a feeling your guess is correct. He seemed to be very well known, and I'm guessing this kind of behavior was not out of character at all.

I certainly agree that this was a well run event. That's really not what my OP is about at all. I'm simply looking to open up the conversation about what can be done to help elevate the tournament experience in an effort to further discourage taking a casual attitude, especially for groups that are well out of contention without much to play for.

 

[Stable]

I'm not sure why someone else's attitude would affect your own play against the course unless they were distracting when you throw.

My opinion is that it's a non-issue unless the individual is bothering/distracting/disrupting (etc.) you or another player. I also appreciate a more formal attitude during PDGA tournaments so you need a TD that is going to enforce PDGA rules.

 

[JedV]

If only there were Hooter's Girls on site! (Sorry, that's what came to mind when I read your thread title).

As for the actual reason for this thread, I 100% agree with the sentiment of the OP. No doubt a crappy situation to be put in. I don't understand people who pay money to pay in a tournament when they intend to play casually, which can be done for free.

 

[runningDoc]

What I noticed about almost two years playing in NEFA region, is that the lax rules guys are habitually that way, so when you start a tourney, do a little pre check on the player list, and look around at the players meeting, then most importantly your card to see if you recognize them.

I did the same for other extremes too, rules nazi guy, excessive time guy, guy who brings his kids/dog(s)/WAGs/etc.

From there you just deal with it. I remember during the GHDGO everyone warned me about this notorious excessive time guy. I took note and made a huge effort to befriend him beforehand (he ended up being totally cool, but just took his sweet assed time before every single shot). The DG community is weirdly insular so you see the same faces from CT, MASS, all the way to upstate NY and VT and Maine.

During NEFA grand finals last year I was carded with "sarcastic/backhanded comment guy" (or basically anyone from New England ) but remembered him from another tourney in Albany earlier in the season. We're friends though, because I knew I'd probably run into him again down the road.

 

[Discette]

I've been pondering this today after a fairly unpleasant experience in my last tournament.

Without going into too much detail, I was carded with someone who took a very casual attitude towards the rules, particularly with regard to rules like marking and properly holing out on "gimmes" which are often relaxed in casual play. Not to mention, he was under the influence of a variety of different substances, some of which he continued to consume throughout the round. When I explained that I prefer to take sanctioned play more seriously, he gave me a "come on man, lighten up" kind of attitude.

The problem was a stark contrast in attitude. It was the second round and we were well out of contention, so there was very little to play for. I still wanted to compete and try to improve upon a poor first round, and he wanted to party and play it like his usual casual or league rounds.

So the discussion I want to have is this: what can be done to better instill an atmosphere of serious competition at tournaments?

If you really want to make a difference, it starts with YOU. YOU have to make the calls if YOU want to better instill an atmosphere of serious competition at PDGA events.

If you want a player to take the rules more seriously, it is upon you to take a stand and let the player know that it is a PDGA event and you expect everyone on the card to follow the rules so the round will be more fun and more relaxing for everyone. However, you did that and he didn't care. The next move would be to warn him and/or call the foot faults. Complaining here won't make those calls happen. We can't do it for you. It is up to you to make the call.

Regarding the intoxication, since this was a PDGA B-Tier event, if the player was in possession of alcohol or drugs (during the round), it is an automatic DQ. If the player had too much alcohol, he is also subject to disqualification, even if he wasn't over-consuming during the round. It doesn't matter if the TD is his best buddy, it is an automatic DQ with the PDGA if this behavior is reported and confirmed. The best time to report this type of behavior is AT the event, when it would have been easier to get confirmation that the player was overly intoxicated or in possession.

That being said, it is not too late to report the player substance use/intoxication, especially if you have witnesses that are willing to confirm. Here is the link to the PDGA Event Feedback Form: http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/feedback/?event=Lord%20of%20the%20Thorns%20PRO%20%26%20MA1&date=2016-05-22&email=novadiscgolf%40gmail.com

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm simply looking to open up the conversation about what can be done to help elevate the tournament experience in an effort to further discourage taking a casual attitude, especially for groups that are well out of contention without much to play for.

Side bets.